keep an Endless Sci-Fi Roguelike interesting?

[IBOL]

Well the more I get into it the more I realize that "endless" is probably not my real goal
I think the player should have several ways of ending their game in victory

Sandbox to a point but but I'm not going overboard on the depth of details yet
T
I did get klingonRL and its actually very strategic and tough
Excellent design!

[guest509]

Hey thanks IBOL. Took me years to make something worth playing, it's nice to have finally succeeded instead of just participated. :-)

Can't wait for an endless space game from you.

[Endorya]

Well the more I get into it the more I realize that "endless" is probably not my real goal
I think the player should have several ways of ending their game in victory

Sandbox to a point but but I'm not going overboard on the depth of details yet
T
I did get klingonRL and its actually very strategic and tough
Excellent design!

I think it will be difficult providing the player with multiple ways of finishing the game without a sandbox. Nonetheless, it can be done through some heavy scripting. Since I'm not aware of how your game's game-play will unfold I can't really come up with suggestions towards it.

[IBOL]

maybe i'm splitting hairs as far as 'sandbox' goes. definitely open world, go where you want. just can't become a god to some planet or something - not that level of detail.

something getter77 said earlier on this thread about 'how to end the game by choice':
"-Tying in Questing and the passage of time to Retiring seems like the way to go---each major quest plotline could give a chance to retire after successful completion"

been working on basic things for a week now. might be able to post some shots or even demo,
but there's no enemies or treasure yet. just your ship, space, and planets and away team.

this thread is very helpful for direction,
thanks to all!

[Endorya]

Can't wait to see the screenies , I really want to comment on them.

[IBOL]

I'm a pretty paranoid person  generally but endorya that sounds loaded . You already have some specific comment to make even though you don't know what they'll look like. I'll try toget something up tonight.
EDIT:

does this work:

procedural planet surface using some Oryx sprites. it's all Oryx sprites.
I have line of sight now for both space and planets,
with either your ship or a little guy moving around.

[IBOL]

and here's a space one.
the grayed out area is unexplored as of yet.
today I got the world to be basically persistent.

[IBOL]

here's my progress reports for the last few days. I started keeping track.

` 8/30/13 : got persistence down.
` also got a warp screen and travel between sectors.
` the abbreviation screen and the landing party stats

` 8/31/13
` got the banker station happening.
` hire crew, repair hull, buy supplies, sell sci data,
` donate to the PAY IT FORWARD fund and save it encrypted.
` create and list components for sale (but can't buy them yet)
` designed 13 commodities.
` made them available at space stations.
` can also BUY & SELL! hello space trading game!

` 9/1/13
` installing components today. effects applied to ship
` can buy & sell components at station.
` began tracking the price you paid for commodities.

` 9/2/13:
` got asteroid mining done today.
` bump to mine. spawn commodity or component, pick it up.
` also items spawn on planets, can pick them up.

[guest509]

WANT.

@Endor-ya! (you were going for a Starwars/Ewok reference with your name...right?) - You don't need multiple ways to finish. You can have the same finishing conditions but with multiple paths. To be more specific, many roguelikes have different playstyles, race/class combos and builds that are winnable but with the same way to finish. If your over all goal is to blow up space stations you can sneak in with an invisible suit and plant a nuke or you can waltz in with a battleship and blow it away from range. The sneak option requires hi tech but the battleship requires tons of resources and time to build.

If you need to blow 9 stations to win, the first station is easy, but the next is harder and so on. The final station is totally prepared and you better have a battleship AND a stealth suit.

God I'd love to play that game!

You may have actually been saying something like that Endor, but I figured I'd refine it a bit.

EDIT: I already like the looks of this IBOL.

[IBOL]

The story so far:
Less than 10 years ago, an alien space station appeared in a human controlled sector of space. The aliens offered advanced technology to anyone who could afford it. And now all of space is in chaos. Governments collapsed as power shifted hands too quickly to maintain order. Resources were stripped and stolen, sold to the aliens who had become known as the Bankers. All attacks against their stations failed, and no one has tried for years. Life is now a struggle to obtain higher technology, just to avoid being destroyed.
You have recently obtained your own ship, and are about to set out to seek your fortune.
Will you try to destroy the bankers, or will you work for them? Will you find help from an alien species who wishes to end the Bankers rule as much as you do? Or will you find some other path, perhaps ignoring the problem entirely.

Typed on my iPod at work so forgive errors

[IBOL]

ok so I've done a lot of work on this lately.
I have a lot of random quests being generated now, and I designed a preliminary system
for naming weapons, in the spirit of what getter77 said back a few posts.

start with weapons like the "generic plasma cannon" and "surplus anti-proton gun", and progress up to things like the "refined phased cannon" or even a "mythical tachyon blaster".

search space for deposits of macroborazol, polykryptane, thiomethylene, benzoxanthonone
(randomly generated)

here's more progress reports:

` 9/3/13
` refined asteroid item spawning.
` spawn commodities on planets.
` allowed shields to be damaged, and then recharge after a cooldown period.
` allow hull to be damaged.

` 9/4/13
` began work on DEVICES.
` got 10 designed, and loaded their file.
` allowed landing party to die,
 ` and scatter what they've collected to the winds!

` 9/5/13
` got 18 devices created, and loaded
` some starting ships equipped with certain devices.
` many of the devices function.
` added docking fees at stations.
` your systems cool down some at the station.
` landing party heals some upon visiting the shuttle.
` began the long process of defining quests.
` generated my first quest, but can't actually complete it.

` 9/6/13
` you can now go on a transport quest between stations!
` you can succeed and be rewarded. you can also FAIL!
` you can now install new devices
` added a "mcguffin" collection quest, which works and can be turned in.
` developed spaceship interior generation routines, so you can board shipwrecks or even enemy ships!
` also randomized the color of the nebulas in each sector

` 9/7/13
` added the "mysterious hidden space anomaly" quest, and resolution.
` added the "Spaceforming" quest, and able to succeed
` added the "Find a bunch of stuff on a planet" quest. can succeed, but hard.
` added "fully explore this planet" quests. very hard
` created function for naming weapons according to their stats
` created functions for naming chemicals and plants for quest targets.

guess I know what i'm doing for ARRP.

[akeley]

For me, Endless Sci-Fi Roguelike concept is already "interesting" in itself. No need for USPs or such. I love a SF setting and majority of RLs/RPGs seem to be stuck in the fantasy territory. As for the "endless" thingy getting boring, not a problem for me - if the game can keep me entertained for a long time it`s a mission accomplished anyway. And if this is a roguelike I`ll probably die a lot and so on...so no worries there. Plus, you can always put in some major "winnable" quest in - and keep the universe going on endlessly even after completion. And/or have a scoreboard...and a retirement option - I`m thinking Pirates! now -  where you get not only a high score, but also some status description for your trouble.

Starflight is one of my favourite games of all time, and what you describe here seems to have lots of similar aspects. In fact, it seems too good to be true almost, what with the massive scope - random missions, endless weapon upgrades, planetary exploration, asteroid mining, ship boarding...Lawd! Plus, it`s an RL. If you pull it off, it could be a major hit.

One area that needs special care in this genre is space combat itself. For some reason most of the old classics, while totally awesome in other aspects, choose to go down the arcadey, real-time route for battles. So I hope yours is turn based...

Some other titles to land on & mine for ideas: ASCII Sector, Strange Adventures in Infinite Space (that one`s actually free now, wow). Space Rangers 2 is very original , though not an RL.

Finally, where can I find KlingonRL? The database`s down...

[IBOL]

thanks for the response, and pointing me toward starflight. i never played it, but it looks right!

as for the space combat in my game, it will remain roguelike; turn based.
i've got some random missions happening now, but their descriptions are generic (i think they might actually remain that way.)
i've also got 3 ways planned that you can play out the story, each being a long-ish major-ish quest line. the broad strokes will be the same, and hand written, but the locations, enemies, levels, terrain, etc. will be random in each game.

this is the page i got klingonRL from:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/c43vbb
 
one thing i'm having a hard time with conceptually is how to do an "Identify" system in this game.
you can tell that a weapon is a weapon and a shield is a shield, and you can't really plug your shield into your weapon slot to see what happens.
there doesn't seem to be any real way to 'experiment' with items, except for using them in their intended way.

using the Oryx tiles I bought (the megapack, which is awesome, and a good deal), I worked out my random spaceship generation code. taste:

[guest509]

I'll re-up KlingonRL.
http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3082.msg25618#msg25618

Those Oryx tiles are some serious awesome. Total coolness really.

I clicked on that link and it said I had to be a game creator member...maybe I should be a member but I'm only a 'talkie' until March...:-)

[getter77]

The experimentation could come from properties from the subtle to dramatic that might not be apparent without proper Identification, especially if Alien/Exotic in origin.  IE A hull that reflects laser blasts entirely might be just as shiny as one with an anti-ballistic coating.

Otherwise, perhaps have such things operate at a reduced rate of effectiveness until properly "identified" and integrated into your ship, then with the even more expensive possibility of researching them more deeply so as to make it even more advanced tech than otherwise?  Something like that would help solve the common issue of finding something with a particular attribute you really like, but not being able to randomly find it again in a more advanced form to match up with latter game threats and your other equipment.