Author Topic: KeeperRL (formerly Zagadka)  (Read 79281 times)

Vanguard

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Re: KeeperRL (formerly Zagadka)
« Reply #120 on: February 17, 2014, 01:09:15 PM »
This is known as the Diablo Syndrome. I've noticed the very same thing when my wife was playing Fame. Any ideas how to fight it? :)

Get them to play games that punish rather than reward that kind of behavior.  Strict time limits, heavy penalties for being overburdened, etc.

koiwai

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Re: KeeperRL (formerly Zagadka)
« Reply #121 on: February 27, 2014, 12:54:17 AM »
I played the Keeper mode. I liked the game. I won on hard once, then tried to repeat the build to make screenshots and died in the end (one enemy swordsman was too strong, he is right here at my front door in the screenshot)


My impressions after playing.
You always have choices: what to build first, how to spend mana (learning vs monster spawning). This is great. Unlike DF, where I was always building basically the same fortress with minor variations, here I have to choose what's the next thing to do (taking into account available resources, your minions, and what is already built). It would be great if the map could force you to make certain decisions. (Say, there is a human cemetary nearby, and you benefit from going into Necromancy early on).

I notice that I delay building the Library, first building the lobby, then the storage room, and only then the library. Probably, it costs me later on.

The game flow is very natural and intuitive. You gain resources, knowledge, minions. The development if the dungeon is smooth. Other things are balanced well too. I was usually going for golems (a few stone, a lot of iron, then lava in the late game), and necro (mummies, and later vampires, when I played second time). To support my army, I had ~ 4-5 gnomes and goblins (They both work at the laboratories and the workshops, right?). Golems cannot pick up items when controlled directly, but humanoids can.

I neglected the spellcasting branch. But I was spawning flies frequently to distract enemies from my real army. You can make a lot of flies, and they seem to be useful.

Sending minions to kill civilians and animals is fun, even a single vampire can do a lot, if there is no military units (when the the village is defeated it seems to be the case). The raven is good early in the game to quickly explore the map at ~0 cost.

It seems that for building the dungeon, you need a fixed amount of resources, so you don't really need more than you are given. It would be fun to make a map with more than one mountain. So, you could conquer a nearby village and move to a better and bigger mountain. All games unfold according to the same scenario. Some, even minor, variability will make the game more fun. Random events, maybe. It can be interesting to generate maps that dictate certain decisions and events (for both, the player and AI).

Controlling a group of units is not very convenient. When you return to the Keeper-mode, you cannot select the same group easily. You cannot control two groups. (You can use yellow flags, but it's not the same). Anyway, this is a minor issue. Also, in the unit-controlling mode, movement is a bit sluggish. Probably it's unavoidable, all the mobs must do their moves, but this delay is not a great thing. Maybe, you can try to do some "shortcuts", for example, doing expensive computation like the Field of sight of the mobs not at every turn, but once in a while, especially for those mobs that are far from your minions and are not fighting. For melee fighters, when they are in combat, their perception radius also can be reduced. Some "shortcuts" with pathfinding also, probably, can be done. Not sure if anything of the above is applicable, but just my two cents. Maybe, you find it useful.

Hints at the bottom help a lot. I could understand the game without reading anything. (I don't enjoy reading readmes). I still don't see the purpose of the treasury room though. For buying stuff? For sidetracking greedy heroes? Also, if I want to read about the types of minions (what's the difference between a mummy and a vampire?), where can I do that? Do they have special abilities?

Overall, KeeperRL is a very fun and well-balanced game. Definitely worth playing. Very enjoyable, though sometimes seems to be too fast for my taste. There is an obvious potential for becoming even better. If I can suggest some ideas for the future development, IMHO, the game can benefit from additional random events and map features that affect your strategic decisions (and AI's decisions as well).

miki151

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Re: KeeperRL (formerly Zagadka)
« Reply #122 on: February 27, 2014, 06:38:54 AM »
Thanks, that's great advice! I never really thought about enforcing/encouraging different strategies on the player. I only tried to give him more choice. I'll think about placing some magical items on the map that shape the black magic and take the player in different directions. Random events are good too. A friend suggested moon phases that affect the strength of minions and other things.

Better team management is definitely high on the list.

About the sluggish movement, did you encounter it in any specific situations or just in general when you control a unit? I thought I had it mostly under control, but it's possible that sometimes the creatures make excessive pathfinding calls.
KeeperRL, Dungeon Keeper in roguelike style:
http://keeperrl.com

miki151

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Re: KeeperRL (formerly Zagadka)
« Reply #123 on: February 27, 2014, 08:45:32 AM »
Oh if you're compiling yourself, then add "OPT=true" to make arguments, otherwise it's the debug mode and it's very slow.
KeeperRL, Dungeon Keeper in roguelike style:
http://keeperrl.com

koiwai

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Re: KeeperRL (formerly Zagadka)
« Reply #124 on: February 27, 2014, 05:03:00 PM »
Oh if you're compiling yourself, then add "OPT=true" to make arguments, otherwise it's the debug mode and it's very slow.
You are right, I simply did make without OPT=true. Recompiled - It works fine now  :D

miki151

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Re: KeeperRL (formerly Zagadka)
« Reply #125 on: March 21, 2014, 09:59:52 AM »
Here is alpha6 rc1. It still lacks some features and there are a few bugs that need to be fixed for alpha6. Major stuff that I've added includes saving games, retiring a fortress and attacking it as an adventurer, a bigger technology tree and more traps. You can only retire after you've conquered the land or if you set "aggressive enemies" to "no" at start. Let me know what you think.

http://blkrs.com/~michal/keeperRL_alpha6_rc1.zip
KeeperRL, Dungeon Keeper in roguelike style:
http://keeperrl.com

Garadur

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Re: KeeperRL (formerly Zagadka)
« Reply #126 on: March 26, 2014, 03:16:57 PM »
Very fun game! I was especially surprised about the speed of the gameplay. [and death of keepers  ;)

One thing that annoyed me, was that the Keeperopedia (was that the name) couldn't be easily controlled with the mouse. I tried to click on "traps" for infos, but it always slipped away. There is not much info there yet, but when there is, it should be fixed.

Speaking of traps: I was expecting the stone traps to be working like in dwarf fortress. Instead they work like in Indiana Jones. Caught me off guard and got me wondering, why half my fortress was standing in my trap passage. (hint: they all got deadlocked by a not completed stone trap)
How the web traps and gas traps work is obvious, and I guess, when an alarm trap is triggered the whole fortress is called to that spot.
But what do the surprise traps do? I'm guessing it's a surprise for everyone. But what kind of effects can you expect?

I love this game, but I still have a lot to learn in how to play it. I haven't tried Adventure mode yet, but Keper mode is awesome! 

miki151

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Re: KeeperRL (formerly Zagadka)
« Reply #127 on: March 26, 2014, 04:00:10 PM »
Thanks for the feedback!

Yes, the UI is very lame. I fixed this issue temporarily, and I'm planning a whole UI overhaul some time later.

The boulder traps work pretty much like in Indiana Jones, yes :D. The surprise traps are pretty straightforward, they teleport you minions from up to a given radius (8) to the site. There is actually some help available if you hover over the menu. I'll put that info in the keeperopedia too.

Let me know if you have trouble with anything else.
KeeperRL, Dungeon Keeper in roguelike style:
http://keeperrl.com

miki151

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Re: KeeperRL (formerly Zagadka)
« Reply #128 on: March 31, 2014, 09:07:07 PM »
Here is another build. Main changes include capturing prisoners, room building and minion management. I'm getting close to the next release; any feedback, especially about bugs is very welcome.

http://blkrs.com/~michal/keeperRL_alpha6_rc2.zip
KeeperRL, Dungeon Keeper in roguelike style:
http://keeperrl.com