Forays into Norrendrin 0.8.0 - major release!

[Holsety]

Time to put in some feedback since I got around to clearing the 20th floor in this version.
Ow. The difficulty is really brutal compared to 0.6.3.
I've had the most success with stealthy mages, of all things.
Magic's too good to pass up usually, since the feat trees are a wee bit lopsided.
There's usually one feat per tree that's SO much better than the others that I feel there's really only one optimum build.

Combat; Quick Draw is ace, all others can be skipped with no foreseeable problems.
Spirit; feel no pain is SO GOOD. The other feats are so-so. Conviction's not that useful since slugging it out in melee is usually the opposite of what you want to do, considering your limited HP pool. Enduring Soul is awesome, BUT I think one would want to go for Feel no Pain first in ANY situation, and I doubt there's enough Spirit shrines left to let you pick up Enduring Soul also.
Defense; they're all useless  
Magic; It's not viable to go for any perk other than Arcane Shield first, thus the others are somewhat useless   I've had fun times with Force of Will, but nothing beats the sheer survivability of Feel no Pain + Arcane Shield.
Stealth; Neck Snap. Enough said. Disarm trap is good too. Not enough stealth shrines spawn to let one pick up Danger Sense after Neck Snap.

Picking spells over your magic level is not that viable anymore since everytime you cast a spell over your level your magic reserves get drained. (I thought it was just sometimes in 0.6.3? Could be misremembering though.)
Usually I go for Immolate and Blink, picking up Lightning bolt later on.
I'm not sure if there's any point in having Immolate not be a first level spell, seeing as how there's really no reason to pick the one that doubles your torch radius.
The utility of Immolate + bow-n-arrow is fantastic.
Force palm does too little damage and doesn't always knockback, so in effect it's like whacking someone with your Quarterstaff while you have 50% evasion. It's good, but it's also so very boring.

In the later stages the enemies get so damn strong!
My best character was a stealthy mage;
Ring of Protection, Scale(Plate?) Mail of Resistance
Neck Snap, Arcane Shield, Quick Draw, Feel no Pain, Boiling Blood.

Got a real kick out of some of the new enemies I hadn't seen before.
Fighting a Luminous Avenger was awesome, good thing I had my torch extinguished  
Hags are great too, along with Troll Seers. You'll remember what fear is when you have a 80% spell failure on your fire spell and the Troll Seer corpse starts twitching!

Those towering tentacle behemoths though... eugh. They hit hard from such a ridiculously long range! Is the point to burn them and run, like with Carnivorous Brambles? I didn't get around to trying it thanks to being drained as hell. Also orc warmages. They were a giant pain the the previous version, and they are so too in this one. Noticed they cast Bloodscent on the first turn, thanks for screwing over stealthy characters  

So there I am, floor 20.

What you say about the 20th floor was true in 0.6.3. That has been changed in 0.7.0 - since the game doesn't force you to kill monsters anywhere else, it didn't feel right to make the rogue clear the last level.

Clever item management and resource conservation along with A THOUSAND SNAPPED NECKS (snapping a Berserker's neck, yeeeeees  ) have brought me this far!
Looking around I couldn't see what the endgame goal was.
Ah, this chest in a corridor full of poison gas traps behind a unopenable stone slab must be my goal in this dungeon crawl! Random blinking untill I make it in, followed by a potion of toxic immunity and a mad dash!
Random item. Confusion sets in untill I see the big red >. Doh!

"There's the endgame stairs!" I think to myself.
"Time to ascend and bask in this warm glow!"

Floor 21.
Now I have just three things to say, about Floor 21.
1) I want my money back for this Plate Mail of Resistance. These protective runes are of low quality and not at all fit for the adventurer's lifestyle. (Also you're a cruel monster, mr. Creamer. I was not expecting that.)
2) "since the game doesn't force you to kill monsters anywhere else, it didn't feel right to make the rogue clear the last level." OH THE IRONY.
3) THIS IS NOT THE LAST YOU'VE SEEN OF ME.

Fist-swinging aside, Floor 21 is both exciting and unfair-seeming. I'll have to try and make it there once more, but with a fuller backpack, see if that helps.

Add.:
Ah, the flavour texts when examinig monsters and the ingame help are absolutely great though. Very helpful.
So refreshing to have a roguelike straight up give you the formula for Stealth, too!


Decided to go out of my comfort zone and go full Defense+Combat.
Worked great   
Made it to floor 21 again using Quick Draw, Drive Back, Feel no Pain, Full Defense, Arcane Shield, and Disarm Trap.
I was so close, and then I could feel pain again, enough so to notice that I was on fire. 
Oncemore Full Plate of Resistance got its warranty voided, too. So cruel, so cruel.
YAVP soon... or not. Great game.

[dscreamer]

Oh, hey. I've just figured out the "Show new replies" feature, so I didn't notice your post last month. Sorry about that!

You raise a lot of good points. Balance might be better than it was in 0.6.x, but there's a lot of room for improvement. It's posts like this that will eventually get it there.

On shrines: Since they appear every other level, you CAN get those secondary feats you mentioned. If you meant "early enough to matter", well, that's different.

On feats: I actually think Disarm Trap should be more powerful than it is - perhaps making you immune to it while still allowing monsters to trigger it. You said you didn't like Defense feats, but I consider Tumble to be a lot better than Disarm at the moment. Give that one a shot, if you haven't.

On resistance: Finding a resistance item would've made the boss trivial before I made this change. Dragonfire is scary stuff.

"OH THE IRONY." - Yeah. I *do* want to fix this. Perhaps I'll introduce more puzzle elements to the final fight.

Thanks a ton, Holsety.

[getter77]

v0.8.0 is out!  Not sure of the changelog yet, but this is still probably awesome considering.   

Future plan looks good though:

 

Future Plans

    Between 0.8.1 and 0.9.0 - Even more variety in level types and monsters. Additionally, some level types will always have a chance to generate specific monsters.

[dscreamer]

3) THIS IS NOT THE LAST YOU'VE SEEN OF ME.

v0.8.0 is out!  Not sure of the changelog yet, but this is still probably awesome considering.   

Hey, everybody. The game is here: http://code.google.com/p/forays-into-norrendrin/

The changelog is actually so big that I'm sure to miss some things, but I'll give it a shot. (Holsety, I think you might like these changes, especially the final level):

Changes:
Dungeon:
The dungeon is much more than walls and floors now - brush burns, gravel makes noise when stepped on, and pools of water provide relief for burning adventurers.
There are a lot of interactions between all the new elements, especially fire: Water, slime, and thick poisonous gas can all extinguish it. Oil will ignite when the smallest ember touches it.
(Lots of new dungeon features and traps, too, like webs and the explosive blast fungus.)
Items:
Forays has an item identification system, finally! (There's a twist on the usual ID game: There are no scrolls of ID, and there are no purely negative items.)
The item list has been expanded, too, with some weaker items being replaced by more dramatic versions.
Enemies:
Yep, the enemies have been expanded & rebalanced too. In addition, each type of monster has its own critical effect now, not just max damage and stunning!
Equipment:
The weapons also have their own passive & critical effects, and all 5 are now viable choices. (All the melee weapons have the same base damage now, instead of the staff and dagger being too weak.)
You can now find magical trinkets with passive bonuses when you open a chest. For example, the ring of keen sight doubles your chance to spot traps.
One more major change to how equipment works: Weapons and armor can be affected by temporary statuses, like possession, weak points, or infestation. These are indicated on the equipment screen. While [r]esting, you'll also repair all of your equipment, leaving it as good as new.
Skills & Feats:
The feat system has been changed too, and I think the fun & balance have improved a lot. Feats no longer have different point values - instead, you simply pick one feat when you take your first point in a skill, and another feat when you take your 6th point in a skill. (New players will actually be able to get a feel for how they work, even if they don't make it very far!)
Magic:
You still learn one spell each time you increase your Magic skill. You now gain 5 mana, too: Spells are now divided into 5 tiers, and a spell's mana cost is equal to its tier. Spells no longer have a failure rate based on their level. (Instead, only exhaustion can make your spells fail - see below.)
(I wanted to reduce the number of random spell failures while also limiting the number of times you could cast a spell like Blink on a single level. Now, you can cast Blink many times, but not infinitely.)
The spell list has also been updated - again, I tried to make sure all of the spells were actually worth learning and casting.
Exhaustion:
Exhaustion results from various things: struggling to break free of a web or ice, scattering a heavy pile of rubble, blocking an attack while wearing heavy plate armor, or casting a spell without having enough mana.
Resting will reduce your exhaustion back to 0%.
At certain thresholds of exhaustion, you'll find it hard to cast spells, wear armor effectively, and even swing a weapon.
Spells of a higher tier will be affected first: If your exhaustion is at or above 10%, your tier 5 spells might fail. (Failure chance is equal to exhaustion.)
Every additional 10% affects another spell tier -  at 50% exhaustion, all spells are affected.
Likewise, heavier armors will be affected first: At 25% exhaustion, you get no defensive benefit from plate armor. At 50%, chainmail, and at 75%, leather. At 100% exhaustion, half of your attacks will fail from sheer fatigue.
UI:
The UI has taken a few tips from Brogue:
Selecting an item in the 'i'nventory screen will give a description, as well as allowing you to apply/fling/drop that item.
The '>' descend command will now offer to take you directly to the stairs if you're not already there.
Don't want to go to the stairs? The 'X' command will let you travel to any other location.
Additionally, the in-game tutorial tip system has been expanded again to explain statuses, terrain, and item effects.

I'm sure I've missed something there, but that should cover most of it.

Finally, I've created an IRC channel and a forum! The channel is #forays on QuakeNet, and the forum is http://forays.forumotion.com/ .

Enjoy!

[getter77]

That is one mighty changelog indeed---I especially like the attitude of making weaker things more dramatic and varied as opposed to trying to trim down the overpowered.