Epilogue Ascension!

[kraflab]

I cannot quite explain my elation at finally beating epilogue...words just cannot describe the near-hyperventilating experience that level 7 is.
It may be interesting if you play the game to see what setup I had that survived.
It may be especially interesting for all the people that say melee is impossibly hard in epilogue to take a look at what weapon proficiency I chose!

Here's some scattered advice that may really help you if you have made it past level 4 but can't quite make it:
Choose your first battle on a floor wisely!  Run away or simply don't engage if things are not tactically to your advantage.  You can start getting careless once a few enemies are down.
You don't need to kill every enemy!  Especially watch out for champions in the later levels.
Be proactive with item usage.  A perception potion used when no enemies are around is a great way to get an advantage when they do show up.
Use the environment: pull enemies into nooks and out of sight.  Thorns are a great place to seek refuge as well.

Some mild spoilers are visible below, which you may or may not care about.

Character Data:

Arngunnr Tryggvi (Melee - Barbarian)  
Lvl: 9    Exp: 12%  
  
Mode: Normal  
Score: 2064  
Number of Turns: 10341  
Game Length: 0-57-42  
Cause of Death: Antibody A's Shining Soul Dissolver  
Dungeon Level: 8  
  
Health: -9/136  
Fatigue: Awake  
MAG:   7  
MEL:  25  
RGD:   9 (7 + 2)  
SHD:   9  
DEF:  21 (17 + 4)  
DFT:  19 (17 + 2)  
FOR:  14  
PER:   0 (8 - 8 )  
STE:   0  
STA:  13  
Favor: 0 (Paciscraux)  
Trait 1: Quick  
Trait 2: Flat  
Trait 3: Soulful  
  
Abilities:  
  Power Attack  
  Dodging  
  Reduction  
  FW Protection  
  Accuracy  
  Aura  
  Longevity  
  Perception  
  
Inventory:  
      Accuracy Potion x3  
      Perception Potion x3  
  [E] Dark Ring[3]  
      Cage Bomb  
      Smoke Bomb x6  
      Dodge Potion x2  
      Limb Potion x3  
  [E] Jumping Dagger  
      Glowing Blessed Claymore  
  [E] Flawless Mythril Chainmail  
  [E] Glowing Sunlit Shortsword [56%]  
      Stealth Potion  
      Health Potion x2  
  [E] Water Ring[9]  
  [E] Light Ring[9]  
  
Effects:  
  Quick  
  Blind  
  
STAT       DMG ¤ PROT  
---------------------  
Physical :  30 ¤  84  
Magic    :   0 ¤  58  
Fire     :   7 ¤   0  
Water    :   1 ¤   9  
Light    :  11 ¤   9  
Dark     :   0 ¤ -11  
  
Notable Kills:  
  Veteran Epicydilla - Fighter  
  Champion Vigfúss - Knight  
  Captain Arria - Amateur Acrobat  
  Captain Otkatla - Amateur Acrobat  
  Veteran Súlki - Gloomworm  
  Captain Arnkatla - Blue Mage  
  Veteran Úlfr - Blob Baron  
  Champion Nitocris - Purple Origin Blob  
  The Creator - The Creator  
  Champion Oddmar - Red Origin Blob  
  Champion Hafr - Sky Origin Blob  
  King Geirólfr - Purple Origin Blob  
  Timeless Voyager - Timeless Voyager  
  King Ketilbiorn - Hopper  
  Vile Death Knight - Vile Death Knight  
  Captain Þióðarr - Paladin of Minuet  
  Slith, The White Dragon - Slith, The White Dragon  
  
Final Lines:  
  
takes 9 damage.  
!  Champion Dýrfinna attacks:  Arngunnr Tryggvi takes 8 damage.  Arngunnr Tryggvi has been blinded.  
!  Biólan attacks:  Arngunnr Tryggvi takes 8 damage.  Biólan attacks:  Arngunnr Tryggvi dodges.  
@  Arngunnr Tryggvi attacks:  Biólan dodges.  Arngunnr Tryggvi attacks:  Biólan takes 9 damage.  
!  Champion Dýrfinna attacks:  Arngunnr Tryggvi takes 16 damage.  
!  Biólan attacks:  Arngunnr Tryggvi takes 8 damage.  Biólan attacks:  Arngunnr Tryggvi takes 8 damage.  Biólan continues his attack (1):  
Arngunnr Tryggvi dodges.  Biólan continues his attack (2):  Arngunnr Tryggvi dodges.  
!  Champion Ásgautr attacks:  Arngunnr Tryggvi takes 17 damage.  The toxin permanently decreases Arngunnr Tryggvi's RGD!  
!  Champion Ásgautr attacks:  Arngunnr Tryggvi takes 11 damage.  Arngunnr Tryggvi struggles with the pain.  
!  Champion Ásgautr attacks:  Arngunnr Tryggvi takes 32 damage.  Arngunnr Tryggvi died!  Press ESC + F (Quit) to end this character.  Champion  
Ásgautr has gained experience!  


An image of the dead level 6 boss:


An image of the dead level 7 boss:


An image of my hapless character entering the *spoiler* post-game:

[guest509]

  Awesome man!

[Game Hunter]

Melee in Epilogue isn't TOO hard, but I still feel it's at a disadvantage in comparison to the others, mostly because it's a lot easier to get surrounded in a bad way. I suppose my concern with melee is that you absolutely NEED a lunge weapon if you want to handle range. Ideally you could work it from a swap weapon (maybe even several if the need arises), but ranged and melee characters need only start attacking to make use of themselves. All the weapon types have to careful about the enemy they're facing and the environment they're around, so I dunno if anyone can argue that it's all you have to do make melee useful. Also, if I'm not mistaken, perception is only a boost stat for ranged proficiency, which is rather important for all characters regardless of their attack type.

If melee tends to get more damage with each hit, then I'd consider it balanced enough for the most part. In my (admittedly limited) experience with the game I found that, as a ranged character, it was always a breath of relief to fight most melee enemies but then tense up against ranged or magic ones. Maybe if there were a way to get enemies to "accidentally" hit each other in range via LOS or something, melee could take advantage of that potential over ranged/magic who tend to sit around whenever possible. Hard to say, really!

EDIT: Awesome run, by the way! I gotta learn to use potions and skills better, they're way too important to overlook.

[kraflab]

Melee in Epilogue isn't TOO hard, but I still feel it's at a disadvantage in comparison to the others, mostly because it's a lot easier to get surrounded in a bad way. I suppose my concern with melee is that you absolutely NEED a lunge weapon if you want to handle range. Ideally you could work it from a swap weapon (maybe even several if the need arises), but ranged and melee characters need only start attacking to make use of themselves. All the weapon types have to careful about the enemy they're facing and the environment they're around, so I dunno if anyone can argue that it's all you have to do make melee useful. Also, if I'm not mistaken, perception is only a boost stat for ranged proficiency, which is rather important for all characters regardless of their attack type.

If melee tends to get more damage with each hit, then I'd consider it balanced enough for the most part. In my (admittedly limited) experience with the game I found that, as a ranged character, it was always a breath of relief to fight most melee enemies but then tense up against ranged or magic ones. Maybe if there were a way to get enemies to "accidentally" hit each other in range via LOS or something, melee could take advantage of that potential over ranged/magic who tend to sit around whenever possible. Hard to say, really!

EDIT: Awesome run, by the way! I gotta learn to use potions and skills better, they're way too important to overlook.

Melee attacks "combo" as a balance.  In other words, you'll see something like "Edward continues his attack (2)" during a melee attack, which means he hit 3 times with that weapon.  This is why melee enemies can be very deadly.

Perception makes you see farther, which affects everyone.  With a ranged weapon, it increases the distance you can hit, but it also increases the distance you can lunge, throw items, etc.  Personally I really find melee to be the easier choice, because of the damage output.  I think it is decently balanced though (the other victory I know of was as a mage, so there you go: 50% melee, 50% not )

[mughinn]

Since i read this, i downloaded Epilogue and tried to beat it.

I've got to say, that it has lots and lots of paths to take.

Also, the though of you knowing of only two people that won it incentivated me a lot.

The only question i have about this is, what advantage does Dorom give? i've really really tried to see everything i could to beat the game, and Dorom just seems like an extra hard mode.

Anyway, here's my dump:

Dufþakr Ísleifr (Ranged - Barbarian) 
Lvl: 9    Exp: 55% 
 
Mode: Normal 
Score: 2500 (x1.00000000) 
Number of Turns: 12433 
Game Length: 1-42-26 
Cause of Death: Victory - Normal Ending 
Dungeon Level: 8 
 
Health: 157/157 
Fatigue: Rested 
MAG:   9 
MEL:  10 
RGD:  33 
SHD:  11 (10 + 1) 
DEF:  15 (16 - 1) 
DFT:  15 
FOR:  16 
PER:   8 
STE:   1 
STA:  12 (10 + 2) 
Favor: 104 (Kagh) 
Trait 1: Quick 
Trait 2: Flat 
Trait 3: Soulful 
 
Abilities:   
  Power Attack 
  Dodging 
  Random 
  FW Protection 
  Accuracy 
  Lottery 
  Perception 
  Rage 
 
Inventory:   
  [E] Dusty Wing 
  [E] Perilous Powder 
  [E] Honed Vile Exoskeleton 
      Cage Bomb 
      Dodge Potion x4 
      Kagh Potion x5 
      Accuracy Potion x4 
      Grand Kagh Potion x3 
      Health Potion x2 
      Limb Potion x4 
      Perception Potion x3 
      Fire Bomb x2 
      Wormhole Bomb x2 
 
Effects:   
  Quick 
 
STAT       DMG ¤ PROT 
--------------------- 
Physical :  53 ¤  65 
Magic    :  16 ¤  36 
Fire     :   0 ¤ -12 
Water    :   0 ¤   0 
Light    :   0 ¤   0 
Dark     :   0 ¤   0 
 
Notable Kills:   
  Veteran Þorleifr - Mage 
  Captain Sallustia - Blob Assassin 
  Champion Þorbiorn - Telekinetic Slime 
  Champion Didymarion - Blue Mage 
  Veteran Musa - Telekinetic Slime 
  King Ástríðr - Jungle Wanderer 
  Captain Arnoddr - Sentient Otter 
  Captain Salbiorg - Green Mage 
  Captain Olympionica - Power Cables 
  Veteran Eysteinn - Green Mage 
  Timeless Voyager - Timeless Voyager 
  The Creator - The Creator 
  Captain Ármóðr - Hopper 
  Captain Fálki - Stilt Slime 
  Captain Klaufi - Tentacle Bundle 
  Vile Death Knight - Vile Death Knight 
  Chrothorn - Chrothorn 
  Ochband - Ochband 
  Slith, The White Dragon - Slith, The White Dragon 
  Captain Ingvoldr - Fairy 
  Kadvich - Kadvich 
 
Final Lines:   
 
!  Skorri attacks:  Dufþakr Ísleifr takes 30 damage. 
@  Dufþakr Ísleifr gathers healing energy. 
!  Skorri attacks:  Dufþakr Ísleifr takes 7 damage.  Dufþakr Ísleifr's right leg has been bruised. 
@  Dufþakr Ísleifr attacks:  Skorri takes 14 damage.  Dust has gotten into Skorri's eyes!  Dufþakr Ísleifr attacks:  Skorri dodges. 
!  Skorri attacks:  Dufþakr Ísleifr takes 7 damage. 
@  Dufþakr Ísleifr attacks:  Skorri takes 9 damage.  Dust has gotten into Skorri's eyes!  Dufþakr Ísleifr attacks:  Skorri dodges. 
!  Skorri attacks:  Dufþakr Ísleifr takes 7 damage. 
@  Dufþakr Ísleifr attacks:  Skorri takes 9 damage.  Dust has gotten into Skorri's eyes!  Dufþakr Ísleifr attacks:  Skorri takes 9 damage. 
?  Skorri releases an amazing flash, blinding its killer!  Skorri died!  Dufþakr Ísleifr has gained experience!  Dufþakr Ísleifr's right leg 
has gotten better.  Dufþakr Ísleifr lights the campfire and begins sleeping...  Kagh has sent you some disarray!  Dufþakr Ísleifr awakens, 
fully rested. 

[kraflab]

Wow, awesome man!

You are the first person I know of to win with a ranged character, since I did melee and the other used a mage

Dorom gives you a pretty powerful ability late in the game.  At least, it was powerful when I originally designed him.  The game has changed a lot since then.  Maybe he should be buffed, but I kind of like the mystery/challenge presented by him.  There is also *cough* REDACTED *cough* with him.

It's a shame you were on the demo.  It would have been interesting to hear your opinion of the last 3 levels, since no one besides me has gotten there (that I know of).

Anyway, congratulations!

[mughinn]

I reached floor 6 with Dorom, maybe i should pay more attention?

The only thing i noticed of him was that at low health you basically died, in floor 6 i died because i started sleeping with low health, didn't think he'd kill me.

Besides that the game feels balanced, with lots of different strategies. If i knew what Dorom does i could say if it seems powerful enough.

One thing, Grand Hagh potions seem very powerful, although i didn't use a lot of them because of how greedy i am and i though i could do it without them at some point, i used one grand on floor 6 and one for Slith, they made those fights a lot easier, i can't really tell you if they're overpowered, but are a huge advantage.

I can't pay for the game, i don't have my own credit card or anything and my parents won't pay for it.

I'll try to convince them though, i'd love to support you AND get the full game, the final text really got me to want more.

[kraflab]

I will say that you get 2 abilities from Dorom: the first increases your stats significantly and causes you to take damage for a time, and the second is an instant kill ability.  At the time there was nothing better, but with some of the new classes I may need to go back and buff them up.  There's also something special that doesn't impact gameplay that I won't say.

I will reevaluate the kagh potions.  It might make more sense to make them less frequent or less powerful.  The thing is that so few people have made it this far that I don't have a lot of end-game feedback, so thanks for that!  Of course, you also have to deal with the occasional problems kagh can cause with your stats, so like Dorom I think he should give a nice payoff.

In terms of making certain spots easier, I think that's really the point of consumables in the game.  If you play right and learn the best uses for everything, the boss battles themselves are not that difficult.  The real danger to me is generally the war of attrition with all the minions as you are trying to get to the boss.

The sleep-death with Dorom is something I did not originally intend, but I've seen several people die that way and I think it fits the god too much for me to take out.  It's kind of a bummer if you don't see it coming, so I guess I need to put a hint about that somewhere or be more explicit about what he does and when he does it.

[mughinn]

I see your point, and you're right, as it is, the game is truly a challenge and very nice, i love the setting an how it is done.

I'll keep playing, if i can i'll buy the full version and i'll try to think of lots of strategies and see if they're broken. Also i'll try to see how Dorom works, the things i tried the most were the gods, so if you want i can tell you how i see each of them.

Again, the game is awesome

[kraflab]

Feedback is always welcome.

I tried to diversify the options with respect to the gods.  Some have random benefits, some require action to get rewards, and some can be worshiped passively.  I figured most people could find one of these options preferable.

I'm glad you like the game 

[mughinn]

well, I'll start with Wroth and Mollith, they seem good, but i don't know if they just don't act enough or they just don't show it to you, most of the things that happen to you usually make a sound (like Kagh buffs/nerfs) and for me, it felt as if worshiping a god that did nothing, although i knew it had to be doing something.

Then, Paciscraux, it's a good choice and has a nice effect, for me not being able to cure with Minuet is too big of a trade, i personally don't worship it, also, it may be me failing to notice my death count, but it's possible there's a bug when you worship him and have the trait soulful, and you die, you lose both extra lives.

Kagh is in my opinion the best, a good amount of time, the disarrays he sends don't affect you, but you still get favor.
His potions are the best for destroying everything, you just have to be sure to have an escape method or a place to hide when he sends you a general --.

Zhangroh is also very good, you just have to prepare your game from the class and traits in the beginning, if you get a bit lucky you can gain a lot of stats. I have tried using it with shield classes and you're a tank in deeper floors, sacrificing chests is a big payoff, but it's not forced and shortage of potions can be avoided.

Dorom is very dangerous, it can easily kill you when you're in trouble, the abilities it gives you are very powerful (I've now seen the buff in combat, and i don't have to see the other one to see how it goes) if you made him kill you a bit slower it probably would be broken. It is harder to play, but it probably pays off.

Minuet, it probably doesn't count, but it's there, and is probably the most useful of them all, the reason i don't like Paciscraux, a slight limit on times to heal per level could work, not necessary, maybe for hard mode? Practically, having it's altar just besides blood runes made me survive early floor 7.

I think I didn't miss any, i probably won't list classes, traits and abilities, there a lot of them, and they all seem to have a niche to fill.

[kraflab]

It shouldn't be possible for you to lose soulful and paciscraux at once, but I'll double check that.  Wroth and Mollith both do have sound effects, but it doesn't happen too often and is easy to miss I imagine.  I think your synopsis of the gods is pretty sound, I agree with most everything.  In terms of limiting heals on a hard mode, the hard modes in the game are already nigh impossible, so I think that would be overkill

Mmm, no one has beaten hard mode yet

[mughinn]

I can't really imagine how the game is on hard, the first time i played i though the game was easy, then i reached the second floor. So i can't even imagine how it would ramp up in hard.

I don't have a lot more to say if i discover something i'll tell you, either here or by mail


Oh yeah, i found 2 bugs (besides the ones i told you, but this ones i'm sure of).

The first one is when you use some abilities while getting attacked by melee enemies, apparently the game makes you dissapear for some reason, and the melee enemies, thinking you're there, attack you and move where you are, causing yourself to not appear, but being able to attack without getting attacked, as soon as you move you appear again.

The second one is when you're sleeping, specifically not in a camp fire, because there you'd wake up. When you're tired and automatically sleep while being attacked, you can attack enemies while asleep, making it easy to kill them if you remember where they are, when you should not be able to do anything

[kraflab]

You are woken up when you get attacked, so you shouldn't be asleep if enemies are nearby except for maybe one turn.  Do the enemies not attack in this case?

[mughinn]

I'm not completely sure, i started losing life, but after a while i was just attacking them while sleep. Maybe i just pressed before i woke up and then it would do the action immediately without the animation of light up light down, but i was against 3 enemies, falling asleep from exhaustion, with half health, and i won. So I'm pretty sure something must be wrong.