Roguelike Bundle preparations

[Darren Grey]

For the bundle accessibility and quality are the two big selling points.  These are traditional style roguelikes with an emphasis on polish, both in UI and gameplay.  This stands out a little from general Incubator-ness which is mostly about improving games in whatever way the creators want.  The Bundle has a more unified vision about making the games open to all players, as well as having the ideals of open source etc.  Future bundles may have different visions and requirements.

So on the note of polish it makes sense to push back the deadline to achieve the quality desired in all projects.  I'm not sure Hallowe'en makes any sense, but certainly around then seems like a good timeframe.  Maybe Friday 2nd November?  In the meantime we should all aim to have interim releases for ARRP regardless 

Z, I do agree that we have to be stringent in what gets admitted to the Bundle.  Do you really think Rogue Rage's ASCII is not accessible?  Cause I can't contemplate putting graphics on top of it, easy though it would be to implement.  The whole setting and style of the game is based around ASCII.  What I could try and do is remake one of my older games (Gruesome or Toby the Trapper) with graphics.

On a further note, with a pushed back deadline it does open up the possibility of encouraging other games to join if we feel they can make the cut in time.  It may be worth looking at some of the ARRP results for people we should pester 

[Z]

I think that many people avoid ASCII. But since it is a bundle, maybe they will learn that an ASCII game also can be interesting.

[Ancient]

Whoa, look at that "1000" in Darren's post count number. You sure are spposting a lot!

2nd November, eh? Let me be blunt: PRIME + graphics = huge can of worms open. There is no way we can polish that beast until second of November. PRIME falls out of the Bundle despite our best wishes. We simply need to stop hurrying to met deadlines with it or we risk experiencing burnout. The game is a hobby project so it is a real threat for both me and Psi.

edit: Almost forgot. I will be providing feedback for new version Rogue Rage and LambdaRogue to make things more even. Then I'll consider stay of PRIME in the Incubator complete for now. We got tons of feedback for which we are grateful. Some conclusions still await implementation. There is lots and lots of things to do. Happy times!

[Darren Grey]

Hmm, perhaps the whole Bundle isn't a realistic endeavour...  Most indie bundles are of pre-existing, finished games.  Of course roguelikes are never really finished... 

I'd really like to have a bundle released, but 3 games just isn't a bundle.

[guest509]

  Thanksgiving bundle? Just in time for vacations when people have time to play?

[Darren Grey]

Uh, are there any American developers involved?

[guest509]

  You mean the entire planet doesn't revolve around US traditional holidays? No way!

  I did assume, perhaps incorrectly, that December is a big time for vacations.

[Darren Grey]

I don't think vacations are a good time for game releases.  People are off with family or on holiday instead of paying attention to new releases or the gaming press.  A bog-standard Thursday is perhaps the best time to release a game.

[kraflab]

This could be interesting depending on how things pan out, so I figured I'd link it up:

http://www.bundledragon.com/

[mariodonick]

Of course roguelikes are never really finished... 

Actually, LambdaRogue 1.7 will be the last and final release of that game, so at least one might qualify for the "finished games" category

[spelk]

As an outsider, who is only a player and not a developer - I thought I'd share some thoughts I have about the roguelike bundle.

When I heard about it, I was very excited indeed. It sounded like a hand-picked collection of the best of roguelike gaming, that was collated by "experts" in the genre. The accessibility was one of the key selling points for me.

There are so many roguelikes to choose from and they all present often very different experiences, that it can bewildering for the newcomer to just settle on a couple and explore their depths. As soon as you decide to pursue your interest in roguelikes, you can easily become overwhelmed by the variety of choice available - without much in the way of a useful guide to steer your gaming. MUD's and MUSH'es present a similar daunting choice for the beginner, equally shrouded in mystery and diverse mechanics.

As a player, with only limited experience of roguelikes, it sounded like the roguelike bundle could deliver a "best of" menu of accessible roguelikes.

From what I can gather, at the moment, it's more a showcase opportunity for a small number of roguelikes, and it exerts a development pressure on the developers to "up their game" and polish their current projects to a release standard.

The premise is sound, but the expectations from the bundle buying public will already be set according to various indie game bundles systems now in play.

You could take a sweep of the roguelike genre, scoop the more accessible titles, more palatable to newcomers of the genre, and deliver that FIRST bundle fairly quickly - if the respective developers agree. Definitely hook up a donation/pay as much as you want style mechanic to the bundle - push the proceeds to charity - and deliver a cherry picked chunk of quality roguelike gaming to the masses.

As an example, titles I'd seek to include, would be the likes of Brogue, DoomRL, Zaga-33, TOME4, Powder, Lambdarogue, QuickHack. Established free to play titles, that really deliver on accessibility, and ease of play.

If you could present the current "cream of the crop" to newcomers, opening the door to the genre, you'd set the foundation for the roguelike bundle to become an established mechanism for delivering all sorts of roguelike projects in the future.

It would also serve to ease the pressure from the current bundle developers, and give them precious time to tune up their projects in readiness for the second bundle release. The "Incubator" release?

The 7DRL is an interesting competition style mechanic that showcases a wide variety of roguelike ideas, but not really accessible, established, polished efforts. The roguelike bundle could do this. Be the primary source of roguelike advice, and a focal point for showcasing the developers new projects, once they're at a stage for release.

Anyway, just throwing in my thoughts, coming at it from a purely players perspective. Whatever form it takes and whenever the bundle delivers, I can honestly say I'm still excited by it, and it could become THE definitive place to go for a community showcase of the best or more interesting roguelikes.

Keep up the good work folks.

[Darren Grey]

Thanks for your thoughts.  I've had some thoughts along the same lines myself.  Most bundles are not new games, they're established games that are at a complete and polished level.  Moreover our attempt at using it as a driver for development hasn't really worked that well    It might be best if the Bundle is kept completely separate from the Incubator, and is instead used as a banner to attract the general public to the best of the genre.

[guest509]

  Like maybe the incubator is a tight developer co-op while the bundle might be released, say, after the annual roguelike contest that Doull puts on?

[Paul Jeffries]

I think the idea of a bundle of games selected for quality and accessibility is a good one.  But, it's still undermined somewhat by the fact that these are (presumably) freeware games that it will usually be easier to download (and make sure you have the latest version etc.) direct from the developer's site.

So, what I propose is that the bundle goes a bit beyond just being a zip file of games and includes a bit more supplemental material as well.  Since 'accessible' in roguelike terms still equals 'bleedin' obtuse' in common english the bundle could also contain a bunch of other stuff intended to ease new players into the world of roguelikes in general and the bundle of specific games in particular - simple, easy to understand documentation, introductions that explain the key features of each game, step-by-step player's guides, a suggested order to try the games in, lists of things to try out, tutorial videos... etc. etc.  The bundle could then be essentially a 'one stop shop' for people new to roguelikes to help them over the various hurdles that are involved in getting into the genre.

[st33d]

Big games companies tend to release / announce early in the week. This is because if it fucks up then you've got the rest of the week to fix things. Releasing at the end of the week is the worst because no one wants to spend Friday evening fixing stuff.