MicRogue - Update Jun 19th

[Darren Grey]

I am personally happy with enemies being dumb, but with the combination of enemies being dangerous.  There becomes a point where good AI just isn't fun.  For a simple game like this the AI should be predictable and manipulatable.

[jasonpickering]

Yeah, the other big problem I have is making dangerous combinations of enemies. I have been playing around with ways for the RNG to figure out what enemies to send at you. Now its just randomly selecting them, but if I could figure out how to make them Compliment each other it might be a better idea. The one Idea I had was figuring out what enemies work well together, and using those in a markov chain to build the enemy list for a given floor. but its tought to figure out how to make the enemies dangerous, because its all a combination of their turn order, their placement, and their AI.

Edit: oh also I will probably take overall prgession from one of my favorite Roguelikes, Shiren the Wanderer. I like the progression of Beating dungeons and doing quests opens the game up more. I am hoping to use a combination of that and just progressive unlocks like Binding of Issac.

[jasonpickering]

Hey guys. New build to try, with a lot of changes.

Try It

So this build tests a lot of new ideas, all thrown in together. So let me know what you like and dont like.

1. I noticed players like to kill all the enemies so now to exit a floor the player needs to kill all the monsters on the level, that switches them to stairs up.
2. Switched the goblin to a dark rat, since they felt so similar.
3. Switched to a smaller map, before the game felt very spaced out.
4. wondering if I should get rid of the Diagonal moving enemies. It would let me make much more exciting levels. or I could at least make a rat that can move cardinal and diagonal.
5. A monster will spawn every 5 turns until you clear a level, so clear in as few moves as possible or you are just making more work for yourself.

Extra:



finally made some decent art for the traps. basically the trap will remain down like you see the one on the left, then every 5th turn. the Spikes will shoot out, like on the right, and kill what ever is on that square. It will be up to the player to remember when it will spring.

Also if I keep the monster spawning code, I might look into bosses. they will be special monsters, that can not be killed. they will be given a health bar, and killing spawned enemies will lower their HP. so for example you might need to kill 8 rats to kill the RatKing. so you have to run around dodging this King and taking out normal rats.

[jasonpickering]

Sorry, the link was sending to the wrong build, but its fixed now.

One major problem I need to figure out though is how to correct situations like this:

[Pueo]

I see the problem in the second picture, but what's the problem in the first?

Also, nice build

[jasonpickering]

its impossible to kill the brown mouse, because the mice always move together all buddy buddy. I think I had a solution that might work though. A long time ago someone suggested a Push Mechanic. I might try bringing it back. I just need to figure out the implications. it would allow you to separate any monsters that are covering each other. It will take some paper prototyping to figure out.

[Paul Jeffries]

Played the latest build - very nice!

I got myself into a couple of unwinnable situations like the ones shown in the images, but it always felt like it was my fault for not planning ahead properly so I'm not sure it's not a massive problem provided you don't start the level that way and there is always some way of winning.

[jasonpickering]

There usually is always a way of winning. Although I have added the Items back in, which always do one thing to effect the board in some way. Currently the only in Game Items are Freeze, Which Freezes all enemies for 3 turns, and also Swap. which allows you to swap places with another enemy. I am also currently trying slightly larger Dungeons. I created a map with larger dungeons, but that doesn't work as well as I would like because many off screen enemies can be dangerous. So I am trying another build where it has rooms like zelda. they use the current resolution and then the player can move from Room to Room, but Enemies are only active in the Room you start in. here is a mockup



the yellow boarder is the screen The player sees. I also might try something with enemies where they do not path to you, but instead just move around following their own AI, but will attack when Adjacent to the player.

[Pueo]

Wow, it's looking nice; much further along than my project. I guess I have to start working quicker!

[jasonpickering]

Yeah I found a new game called Cave Noir (a 1991 roguelike for the gameboy  ) and it has really given me a shot in the arm for inspiration. I really enjoy its quest structure, and want to try something similar.

Cave Noire basically has escalating gameplay. where there are defined Ends to each playthrough, but each success the End is moved further back.

Example: Quest 1 Level 1 is slay 3 monsters. when you reach 3 a door appears and you win!. now you have access to Quest 1 Level 2. which is slay 4 monsters and the game continues from there.

the quests are
1. Slay Monsters: pretty self explanatory
2. Find Gold: Gold is found on the ground, in chests, and by killing monsters
3. Find Orbs: Orbs are found lying around and in chests, similar to the Gold quest, except orbs take up an inventory slot, and you only have 8 inventory slots. so for each orb you can carry one less item.
4. Rescue Fairies: they have been locked in cages so you must find keys, then take the keys to the cages.

[jasonpickering]

Well I got the new Level structure in and I updated the camera Movement. Next up is figuring out the enemies. the main problem is how to do enemies so they don't kill you as soon as you walk into a room. I think this is going to be pretty problematic. I need to figure out

A. How to spawn an enemy so that it doesn't kill you as soon as you walk in a door the first time.
B. How to make is so if an enemy is chasing you it doesnt stop in a place that will kill you the first time.

the most obvious answer is building the rooms very specifically so they have certain enemies. and giving these enemies specific spawn points. Also making it so the enemies don't path Right for the player, but just move around the level with deliberate AI and if they can kill the player they will. I worry that will make the game far to easy though. Any thoughts?

[Pueo]

Well, the first thing that comes to mind when I think of that problem is a mini-forcefield around the doors, so that creatures can't go through, or stop where they will kill you.  But that's just me.

[jasonpickering]

Thanks I don't know if that would work with some of the levels I have. Although I am going back to the original single screen model. The single screen seems to fit better with my overall game. Although I am very glad I tried the other dungeon styles. So I should have a new build up sometime. I want to do it by this weekend, but I have family coming in to visit so that might not be a possibility.

[jasonpickering]

back to the original build. try it out. levels have mice, ninjas, and eyes. Item boxes can be found and either have swap or freeze. Leave all the feedback you want.

Try it Out

[kraflab]

Pretty interesting game...

I tried to get some in game help, not sure if it's there or what.  Would like to know what the pickups (idk even if they are spells or what) do.  Also, when I clicked one to see what it did it required a monster (and there were none) so the game just got stuck.  I tried esc and whatnot, so once again a help pop-up would have been nice.

I also inexplicable died at one point.  The only enemy was a mouse and he wasn't next to me, so I'm not sure what could have happened unless there are invisible enemies or you can lose turns or there is some kind of turn limit =/

Nice game, although I would definitely say puzzle and not roguelike, not that that really means anything.