Warhammer 40000: The Roguelike

[corremn]

Thanks guys, I am really struggling with work at the moment, usually I program in my down time, I have no down time.

This game is still in the forefront of my mind, and I want to get back to it.  I am thinking of releasing something soonish just to get something done. 

Psiweapon I would love some tiles, been thinking about a minimal set to ask. Will PM you when I complete it. The main game will be based underground.  Under a ancient Imperial city that has being build layer upon layer on its self. So the early levels would be rockcrete, plascrete, plasteel etc. This generally breaks down into machinery themed levels, pipes, screens, machines etc. Then it will go into more "ancient" levels, probably stone based, paved/cobbled ground, sewers, I dont really know.

Then throw in the chaos worshipers/mutants/mutated animals/aliens and chaos marines. Yeehar!

[guest509]

  I will be interested to see how long this goes before it comes under the gaze of Games Workshop.

  On a related note I am shocked you cannot play whatever music you want in the background of your youtube video.

[getter77]

 I will be interested to see how long this goes before it comes under the gaze of Games Workshop.

  On a related note I am shocked you cannot play whatever music you want in the background of your youtube video.

The copyright / "rights" situation on Youtube and such has worsened of late, especially on the musical front.  Litigious trolling is the new hip thing to do versus making a go of it with your works stagnating in the vaults though, as that would imply giving the workers something constructive to do for wages versus a situational leverage to press for yet more downsizing.  

[Psiweapon]

 I will be interested to see how long this goes before it comes under the gaze of Games Workshop.

As far as I know, that's half of the fun 

[Legend]

 I will be interested to see how long this goes before it comes under the gaze of Games Workshop.

I was thinking the same thing. Especially considering what happened over at board game geek where games workshop made them purge all fan-made player aids, expansions, etc for games workshop games.

Then there was the awesome fan-made space hulk pc game that got knixed. Fortunately, the guys who made it decided to re-theme it just enough so they could still release it under the new name, Alien Assault.

The one that really burned my biscuits though was Terror Drome. Not a games workshop franchise, but it ran into the same problem. It was a bad ass fighting game that starred all the famous horror movie icons like Freddy, Jason, Ash, Leather Face, Pinhead, Chucky, Candy Man, Maniac Cop, Tall Man, and Herbert West. All for free and made by one guy (as far as I know). But then he got a cease and desist by the respective movie companies who held the rights to the characters and was forced to remove Freddy, Jason, and Ash. Really sucks.

But, the Alien Assault and Terror Drome situations did teach one important lesson for anyone making a fan-made game based on a commercial license. The LESS media attention, the BETTER! Both Terror Drome and Alien Assault received quite a bit of internet media attention.

I don't think a roguelike would garner that much attention from GW since it's a fairly obscure fan base (maybe not for long though with Dredmor and what-not). Especially if it's ascii. Although the tiles definitely look cool, it will be more likely to draw attention from GW. 

[getter77]

Oh hell, I'd lost track of Terror Drome's progress of late and THAT was what happened?!  So messed up, especially now checking the sites blog on it with the whole Mortal Kombat situation.   At least the pace seems to be continuing and there might be a release towards the end of the year, though I'm confused as to how one would get it....personal email and hope if I'm reading the latest update or so right?

[Legend]

Oh hell, I'd lost track of Terror Drome's progress of late and THAT was what happened?!  So messed up, especially now checking the sites blog on it with the whole Mortal Kombat situation.   At least the pace seems to be continuing and there might be a release towards the end of the year, though I'm confused as to how one would get it....personal email and hope if I'm reading the latest update or so right?

My guess is if fans are lucky,maybe an anonymous leak of some sort. Or me might share it with a few friends. I know he can't provide a direct link though and he can't actually say that he will give it to anyone who emails him.   

[Psiweapon]

Yeah, but it's hard to stop anyone from releasing something truly underground.

Also, I'm a faithful follower of the Omnissiah.

[corremn]

Man I would be so happy to get a cease and desist letter from GW. That would make my day!

I can understand space hulk getting a letter, it was a direct copy of the game, however I think it would of brought more fans to the tabletop game than away.  It did make a better game in the long run but unfortunately could no longer use the space hulk name to draw players.

[guest509]

  What will happen Corremn is that some one will see something on youtube and then alert GW legal department. They will immediately send out a stock cease and desist letter. Immediately could mean months. Hell you could have moved on to something else entirely before they even notice. Some intern will handle the entire thing. A cease and desist letter is just a threat of legal action. Not the commencement of it. The letter itself is scary as shit. It is meant to intimidate and frighten. I have yet to read one from a major firm that didn't set me aback.  So don't panic.
 
  You can then post the letter here for all of us to see and laugh/bitch about. I will read it and check their legal claims and tell you definitively whether or not you have anything to worry about. I'll do it pro bono to help you in your work.

  If you want to avoid any problem change the name of your work to something less blatant. Sewer Jacks, for example, was not called Blood Bowl: The Roguelike. This likely helped it slide under the wire. Not sure about that though. The current name is the same as waving at GW and saying, "Hey look at me you fuckers!" To them anyway.
 
  Change the name and you'll likely slide by for a long time. After that the graphics will tip them off but it could take awhile and it will be far less blatant.

  And before anyone says that your stuff is no threat to them let's just remember a few key points:

First it doesn't matter if their property is injured. They'll still throw a tizzy. And fighting them even if you are right is not worth it. It will take tens of thousands of dollars. Even if you had the money your game is probably not worth that much. But if you DO have the money and you want to fight them on principal then you sir are a freakin' hero. I'd donate as much time as I can to a fight like that. Beating GW in open court would be epic.

Second a turn based WH40K game directly competes with their own turn based WH40K games. They want people to buy theirs not play yours for free. 

Thirdly your title derives user interest from the branding that GW has worked so hard to create. The fact that NO ONE will ever play your game instead of buying one from GW because the audiences are so different will not be relevant. It dilutes their brand and they have the legal right to put a stop to it.

Fourthly the fact that you are actually giving value to their brand by popularizing it to a community that it would generally not reach is not relevant either. GW will claim that it is up to them to market their property when and where they see fit. Yes GW is that nervous about their stuff. And yes there is copious legal precedent for protecting from (ie shutting down) projects just like yours. You cannot even put out a spread sheet that helps players track the stats of their models without encountering a problem.

  Please note I am giving legal advice here and am making no statement to how it SHOULD work. Just how it does work.

  Note also that I hope you do not heed my warnings. I like it when GW gets their panties in a bunch.

-Jo

[corremn]

Good points Jo.

I totally understand where they are coming from, they invest a lot of time, effort and money into their product. They want complete control over their intellectual property. And so they should.  However that will not stop me from making a fan game using what they have created
Its too cool to just let sit.
And yes I should change the name of the game (or at least come up with one, this is really a place holder). Maybe I might just leave it as it is for a bit of fun...

As for Sewerjacks, there are a lot of Blood Bowl clients/servers that exist on the web and GW has not touched them.  These are exact replicas of the game, where players can play online with their own custom teams in single games or tournaments using more or less the exact game rules. www.fumbbl.com. Funny how they let that slide but they get really nasty about Space Hulk replicas.

Cheers.

P.S. I have to release a game first for any of this to become relevant.

[Psiweapon]

"Bend from your waist directly before me minor bipedal humanoid, to prevent my own person from misappropriating your unproductive sentience with my conflictmallet, for did you not perceive that I am a cosmos trooper of the 0x9C40 millennium."

Rant 00, Quoten from the sacredest pages of the Chants of Disliking, by the Utmostly Holy writ of Corremn the Beginnial. The Emporer defends.

[guest509]

As for Sewerjacks, there are a lot of Blood Bowl clients/servers that exist on the web and GW has not touched them.  These are exact replicas of the game, where players can play online with their own custom teams in single games or tournaments using more or less the exact game rules. www.fumbbl.com. Funny how they let that slide but they get really nasty about Space Hulk replicas.

  Yeah man sometimes it seems almost random what they go after and what they don't.

[Skeletor]

Cool!

[corremn]

Warhammer 40000 lore-in-a-minute

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MeVxKZBOfM