Infra Arcana, a horror/Lovecraft roguelike (now at v22.1.0!).

[NON]

Well, at the risk of sounding like an idiot... NON is there anyway to save a game yet? Can't seem to figure out how.

Sorry, there is no save function yet (it would of course be listed in the "commands" section of the manual).

[NON]

I noticed dynamite doesn't seem to blow up the trees in the intro level.

Yes I know, it's a limitation I did to make certain things easier for me, and I'm totally fine with this. The forest is such a small part anyway.

Some variation to the church lay out would be cool.

That could be nice.

Can you do anything to/at the altar?

Short answer: No. Long answer: Well, stuff like prayer or sacrifice means having some sort of religion-system. This is something I certainly want to add in some manner, but now is not the time.

What about the graves?

I originally imagined zombies crawling up from them. But I think that would get very repetitive and predictable. I have some other ideas for zombie surprises though.

Might be cool if the spiders had more interesting descriptive names instead of just white/black/green/etc. Unless the effect of different colored spiders was randomized each game like potions in Rogue. I've never seen random enemy effects in a roguelike before.

Yeah I should do a little spider research some day, to make the names more interesting.
Random traits and attack effects was something I actually intended at first, but I guess I moved on to something else.

I read some comments on another board about your game and I think I have to agree with toning down the respawning a little. I rarely make it past the first level of the dungeon because I just keep getting swamped by creatures and no way to find a safe place to heal since I can't get away from them and find a door that isn't broken to close. Plus I have very little equipment and have only gotten as high as level 3 once while still on the first level.

Hehe, you're a Codexer? Do you post there? Or did you just stumble upon the thread?
I can agree that the spawn rate is a bit much.

I'll ask the same question here as there;
Is it the initial amount of monsters, or the rate at which they spawn during exploration that you find too high (or both?)

I noticed that I can't seem to move from enemies while they are attacking me. Particularly trying to move diagonally away from them or between to enemies. I can never seem to move diagonally between them.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that the game literally refuses to let you take a step away from them? I'm a little confused and worried.

Maybe some other traits that could be picked would be specific melee weapon proficiency like bladed, blunt, pointed, etc.

Yes that post concerning more and smaller bonuses was interesting. I'll have to sketch up a revised bonus list when I find the time.

Can't wait for potions.

Me neither.

I never get a throwing knife back if it lands on something else like a doorway or a corps etc. At least not that I've noticed.

I don't think I've seen this happen. Testing it later.

Haven't been able to find anything by searching yet. Is there anything to find implemented yet?

The search button is more like a wait button (that's all it does, you wait for 10 turns). But the character searches for traps and hidden doors every turn just like when you walk around normally.
So its primary use is when you have good reason to think there is a hidden door in a certain spot, you can press 's' instead of '5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5'.
It's also good for waiting out things like blindness, or waiting for a corpse to rise again.

Could you please elaborate on the effects of insanity? I can't seem to figure out what it does.

I could to that, but first let me ask you, did you read the "Insanity" section in the manual?

[Legend]

I noticed dynamite doesn't seem to blow up the trees in the intro level.

Yes I know, it's a limitation I did to make certain things easier for me, and I'm totally fine with this. The forest is such a small part anyway.

Was mostly just an observation. Not like the player needs to blow up trees.

Can you do anything to/at the altar?

Short answer: No. Long answer: Well, stuff like prayer or sacrifice means having some sort of religion-system. This is something I certainly want to add in some manner, but now is not the time.

There could be other things to do at alters or any kind of dungeon feature like simply searching it, trying to knock it over, push it, examine it. Things like that.

I read some comments on another board about your game and I think I have to agree with toning down the respawning a little. I rarely make it past the first level of the dungeon because I just keep getting swamped by creatures and no way to find a safe place to heal since I can't get away from them and find a door that isn't broken to close. Plus I have very little equipment and have only gotten as high as level 3 once while still on the first level.

Hehe, you're a Codexer? Do you post there? Or did you just stumble upon the thread?
I can agree that the spawn rate is a bit much.

I'll ask the same question here as there;
Is it the initial amount of monsters, or the rate at which they spawn during exploration that you find too high (or both?)

Just stumbled there.

Kinda hard to say really. There is no way for me to know how many monsters started on the level.  I wasn't even aware they were respawning until someone else mentioned it in that thread. I just thought there were tons of enemies.

Sometimes it seems like a level is almost empty then, "bam". I'm getting swamped. Especially with the zombies popping back up while other enemies are at my throat.

Or I just barely manage to explore the whole level without dying and make my way back to stairs and I get ambushed by several creepies when I turn  a corner.

I noticed that I can't seem to move from enemies while they are attacking me. Particularly trying to move diagonally away from them or between to enemies. I can never seem to move diagonally between them.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that the game literally refuses to let you take a step away from them? I'm a little confused and worried.

I'll be getting attacked by enemies and try to make my next move a step away from them. My player doesn't move, I get the action messages about how the whatever enemy hit or missed me, and my guy still hasn't moved but it's my turn again. Very occasionally he does move though. But this is only when I am getting attacked by several enemies at once. Like 3 to 5, but not completely surrounded like there wasn't a space to move.

  @Z  <- this is what I mean by moving between them. I want to go down-right diagonally. Never lets me.
   r

Maybe some other traits that could be picked would be specific melee weapon proficiency like bladed, blunt, pointed, etc.

Yes that post concerning more and smaller bonuses was interesting. I'll have to sketch up a revised bonus list when I find the time.

I'd like to see a few more, but not too many really. Personally, I think DoomRL and some of the more major ones have a little too many to pick from and it gets a little bogged down.

Could you please elaborate on the effects of insanity? I can't seem to figure out what it does.

I could to that, but first let me ask you, did you read the "Insanity" section in the manual?

Lol. Of course I didn't. Sorry about that. Guess I just assumed there was nothing new in there that I needed to know for some reason.

After reading it, it made me think that maybe by examining things like the Altars and seeing blood, strange designs, etc, it could also effect the player's sanity. Or they could find something useful. Would give searching/examining them a risk/reward factor. You could also add things like painting, torture chambers/instruments etc.

Been playing a bit more and Two things seem a little unfair.

Mainly, such a limited inventory. It seems a little too small. Not counting the slots for rings, worn armor, held weapons, etc, the player only has 15 slots for items. This makes it very tough to manage. Especially the ammo ( what little I have found btw). I think at least the ammo should be stackable to an extent.  I ended up with 4 clips of bullets. One had 7, the others 4, 3 and 3. The same bullets. THere should have been someway to have them all fit in a single clip or if the max clip size is 7, then they should have fit into about 2 and 1/2 clips instead of 4. I think there should definitely be at least about 20 inventory slots and tweak the way ammo is stacked a little.

There seems to be a little bit too little ammo for the amount of enemies popping up early on. I'm not saying make it tons. Just a little more so there is still a good danger of running out and having to make shots count.  

Another feature request I had was for a prepared weapon slot and a command to switch between the prepared and wielded ones. Or at least just a key that lets you swap out your currently wielded weapon for the last one you had equipped. I find myself constantly switching between a firearm (when I have the ammo  :p  )and melee weapon most the time to conserve ammo 9and this would come in very handy.

Thanks again for the menu interface tweak. Having a blast playing with a gamepad. Gonna try to fit in one or two more games real quick before sleep. Have only gotten to level 3 so far and most cause I was running for my life lol.  

p.s. it would be nice if the intro back story was presented on the tittle screen or as a menu option to read it.

***EDIT***
About the too many monsters/respawning too much. I just opened a door and got mauled by 6 reanimating corpses on the very first level! Fought hard and put them all down I think at least once, but only had 2 hp at that point.

Also, I like the way healing works, but it might be kinda nice if you get at least partially healed if you are applying first aid and get interrupted. Or maybe some sort of small semi-rare healing item for when you are in tight situations and the time for first aid is simply not an option.

***Edit 2 (about 2 minutes after the last one)***
Just got devoured by a pack  9 wolves in the forest before even stepping foot in the church. The one that dealt the killing blow actually came out of the church just as I saw the entrance.

[NON]

I'll be getting attacked by enemies and try to make my next move a step away from them. My player doesn't move, I get the action messages about how the whatever enemy hit or missed me, and my guy still hasn't moved but it's my turn again. Very occasionally he does move though. But this is only when I am getting attacked by several enemies at once. Like 3 to 5, but not completely surrounded like there wasn't a space to move.

I did some testing, and everything seemed to work fine. I got myself almost surrounded, and I could move between and around the group in every way. I did it both with the numpad and the new shift/ctrl+arrow keys movement.

Does the problem occur only when you use a game pad?

I just opened a door and got mauled by 6 reanimating corpses on the very first level

Perhaps their group sizes should be restricted on the first level or two.

On the other hand, I personally enjoy knowing that even on the first level, there is a risk of facing an overwhelming force behind any door.
Same thing goes for the wolves. Most games you're just fine. Then there is that off game where they come at you from everywhere and tear you to pieces (or you actually handle the situation and start with a big xp advantage).

About the inventory; It would perhaps be nice to have more space.
But come on? Three half-empty pistol clips? Just throw it away or use it quick.

a command to switch between the prepared and wielded ones.

Will do.
I suppose people want DoomRL semantics, so I'll put 'z' as "swap to prepared weapon", and 'Z' for "select prepared weapon".

it might be kinda nice if you get at least partially healed if you are applying first aid and get interrupted.

Yeah I've thought about this too. It's rather annoying when something finds you and you have 6 turns left. I suppose you could be half-restored after half the healing time.

Or maybe some sort of small semi-rare healing item for when you are in tight situations and the time for first aid is simply not an option.

There are scrolls of healing.

[Legend]

I did some testing, and everything seemed to work fine. I got myself almost surrounded, and I could move between and around the group in every way. I did it both with the numpad and the new shift/ctrl+arrow keys movement.

Does the problem occur only when you use a game pad?

Yeah, I am using the gamepad. But the program I use emulates the key strokes and I never had the problem before.

Either the several enemies hitting me when I try to move is making my movement get cancelled somehow or I may just not be paying enough attention or interpreting what's happening wrong and it's kinda all in my head. Which could very well be it.

[About the inventory; It would perhaps be nice to have more space.
But come on? Three half-empty pistol clips? Just throw it away or use it quick. /quote]

Lol. You really expect me to throw away/waste ammo when it seems kinda scarce as is. I tend to save my bullets for zombies and occultists. I use melee on the rats and spiders. 

I got confused for a bit on how reloading works. I assumed it would take whatever bullets I had in a spare clip and add it to my current one. Not switch the clips out entirely. I tend to reload after a gun fight even if I have bullets left and would end up with a clip of 1 bullet in my inventory. This confused me at first. It is much more realistic though.  It would still be nice if the clips could stack a little. Or some sort of back pack/ammo belt item that would let you hold more inventory/ammo. I never really liked how DoomRL handled this since you can only get the backpack by going to a specific level every time.

Maybe it could be some sort of trait/skill? For each level of it you can carry a few more items or ammo? I think that would be interesting.

Will do.
I suppose people want DoomRL semantics, so I'll put 'z' as "swap to prepared weapon", and 'Z' for "select prepared weapon".

I suppose DoomRL may have gotten some used to the idea. I think nethack and crawl actually have a swap weapons key too (Haven't played those two in a little bit). One key to switch between the current weapon and the last wielded weapon would be enough I think and set it apart a little.

There are scrolls of healing.

Guess I just haven't found one yet or haven't read it when I had it.

Just curious if there was a sythe weapon in the game? Seems like it would fit. SPiked Mace? :p

Just wanted to say that I enjoy your game very much and I think that although it may have a tiny bit of similarity with DoomRL (and some of my input/feedback may have been influenced by it as well), it is definitely it's own entire game. I wouldn't even really compare the two. Just wanted to say so since you seem a little concerned about people thinking of Infra Arcana as a DoomRL clone or wanting it to be just like DoomRL.

[NON]

or I may just not be paying enough attention or interpreting what's happening wrong and it's kinda all in my head.

This sometimes happens to me. It's pretty common to hit a move button, then think that you issued a move command, when you actually just confirmed a [MORE] prompt.

I'm thinking of having [MORE] prompts only be confirmed by the space button. This would be nice in certain instances, like when you step on a teleport trap. As it is now I tend to walk a few steps before I realize what happened. There could be an option in the config file to make any button confirm the prompt.

Maybe it could be some sort of trait/skill? For each level of it you can carry a few more items or ammo? I think that would be interesting.

I'm in the process of comming up with more bonuses at the moment, so this is a welcome idea. There could be a bonus called "Carrying" (just one rank), with Toughness rank 1 as a prerequisite.

Just curious if there was a sythe weapon in the game? Seems like it would fit. SPiked Mace?

No such things yet. I agree that they could fit, but the melee weapons that are there now needs to be differentiated more first. No sense in adding another one that differs only in name, damage, and hit difficulty.

Just wanted to say that I enjoy your game very much and I think that although it may have a tiny bit of similarity with DoomRL (and some of my input/feedback may have been influenced by it as well), it is definitely it's own entire game.

Thank you. And you can bet it will stand out more as time passes, and all the weird shit I have planned gets added.

[Legend]

This sometimes happens to me. It's pretty common to hit a move button, then think that you issued a move command, when you actually just confirmed a [MORE] prompt.

I'm thinking of having [MORE] prompts only be confirmed by the space button. This would be nice in certain instances, like when you step on a teleport trap. As it is now I tend to walk a few steps before I realize what happened. There could be an option in the config file to make any button confirm the prompt.

That is probably exactly what is happening. Although, personally, I hate the "press space to continue [MORE]" prompt like in Rogue. If it does get added, I for one would definitely prefer it as a configurable option.

I'm in the process of comming up with more bonuses at the moment, so this is a welcome idea. There could be a bonus called "Carrying" (just one rank), with Toughness rank 1 as a prerequisite.

Personally, I think it would be better with more than one rank and without a prerequisite. Or at least preferably without a prerequisite. If it is a one time bonus with a prerequisite, I think it should add a fairly significant amount of carrying capacity added. Otherwise, it could be a bonus that you could add multiple ranks to, but each rank only adds a little extra space. Something like 2 slots per rank.

I think this method would be a little more interesting and make the players choice of what to boost more meaningful. Whether they could really use at least just a little more space and go for it again next level, or hold off and boost their strength or agility instead. I know if it was a single rank one time bonus, I would always pick it first or second. This would make it kinda boring and might as well just be automatically added inventory space instead of a selectable bonus. I think so anyways.   

No such things yet. I agree that they could fit, but the melee weapons that are there now needs to be differentiated more first. No sense in adding another one that differs only in name, damage, and hit difficulty.

Maybe mace could replace the club? Club seems a little boring. To me anyways. Good point about waiting until they can all differ in more significant and meaningful ways.

When you do start adding more traits, I hope there aren't going to be too many with prerequisites or ones that cut off the possibility of getting certain other traits. That's something that doomrl does that always kinda annoyed me. It forces the player to play a certain way once they start heading down a certain path with what traits they pick. I like the idea of being able to level them up any way I choose in any order. You don't see that too often in Roguelikes. Although a couple prerequisites would make a little sense, just hope they aren't too high and I definitely don't like the idea of being restricted from getting a particular skill because I also wanted another. My $0.2 on it.   

[Legend]

I was just thinking. If you do plan on adding Dungeon features. Maybe some of them could be movable ones like book cases, barrels, statues, etc. The player could push them in front of door ways to block them. This would help to keep the reanimated corpses and such from breaking through the doorway. Or at least keep them out longer, hopefully long enough to get a heal in. The trade off could be that the player has a chance of spraining themselves when they do so.

I think this would add to the atmosphere of the game. Kinda like in Cthulhu - Dark Corners of the Earth where you had to escape the enemies by running and blocking the doors with book cases and such.

Statues would have a greater chance of spraining the player. Barrels would be the weakest and also possible contain items. Similar to chests.

[NON]

It's all good ideas

I'm about to implement some things to make the game more sneak-and-evade-oriented:
*Sneak skill - There is a certain chance that a monster do not become aware of you even if it has line of sight. This is re-rolled each turn until it becomes aware.
*Listening skill - You listen for footsteps or other idle monster sounds. This can give clues to what's behind a door for example. Maybe it can also print an 'X' on the map in the direction of the sound.
*Backstabbing (or something equivalent) - Attacking a monster in melee when it is not aware of you may give bonus to hit chance and damage.

To emphasize this new aspect even further, I am very tempted to change the way you gain new levels. The idea is to get rid of xp; instead you gain a level when you go to the next dungeon level.

This would mean that the player is rewarded as much for evading a monster as for killing it. You could build a sneaky character without feeling cheated of xp.

[Legend]

It's all good ideas

I'm about to implement some things to make the game more sneak-and-evade-oriented:
*Sneak skill - There is a certain chance that a monster do not become aware of you even if it has line of sight. This is re-rolled each turn until it becomes aware.
*Listening skill - You listen for footsteps or other idle monster sounds. This can give clues to what's behind a door for example. Maybe it can also print an 'X' on the map in the direction of the sound.
*Backstabbing (or something equivalent) - Attacking a monster in melee when it is not aware of you may give bonus to hit chance and damage.

To emphasize this new aspect even further, I am very tempted to change the way you gain new levels. The idea is to get rid of xp; instead you gain a level when you go to the next dungeon level.

This would mean that the player is rewarded as much for evading a monster as for killing it. You could build a sneaky character without feeling cheated of xp.

That sounds very interesting. I've wondered before if a roguelike could work by simply gaining a level/new trait every time they enter a new dungeon level. I think there's definitely a possibility of this working. Not sure how receptive the majority of the community would be to it though.

It would definitely eliminate grinding for the most part I think.

On the other hand though, it means every time you enter the fifth level, you will have 5 traits. Every time. It also kinda eliminates some of the risk/reward factor for actively engaging the enemies and trying to explore the entire level.

Kinda hard to say if I'm personally for it or against it. Maybe when you release the new version, you could release two versions? Both versions would be exactly the same  in all other changes/additions that you make to the game but one would use the current experience system and the other would use this new idea of gaining a level every time you finish a floor. I think if you do this, you are more likely to get constructive feedback on it since players can compare the two systems side by side.

[getter77]

MageGuild deals with this, IIRC, with scouring the level for a power-choice granting item or so combined with descension as the way to go as just killing enemies won't grant you XP levels and whatnot.

Perhaps a mix in order?   Certain power trees come from combat, some from treasure finding/exploration/general dungeoneering from a given level, and some from descent outright---mix and match as you choose/can afford to in the random world/emergencies.

[Legend]

MageGuild deals with this, IIRC, with scouring the level for a power-choice granting item or so combined with descension as the way to go as just killing enemies won't grant you XP levels and whatnot.

Perhaps a mix in order?   Certain power trees come from combat, some from treasure finding/exploration/general dungeoneering from a given level, and some from descent outright---mix and match as you choose/can afford to in the random world/emergencies.

That does sound like a reasonable idea.

[NON]

It also kinda eliminates some of the risk/reward factor for actively engaging the enemies and trying to explore the entire level.

Yeah that could be a problem. It would encourage fast diving. Sure there are items to get from exploring, but maybe always descending when finding the stairs would be the superior "strategy". That is something I really want to avoid.

EDIT: This can be solved by making it extremely hard for a player with poor items to win. A spontaneous idea is a monster that's practically impossible to beat, so you are forced to solve the situation by for example using some item granting invisibility. Maybe not a perfect idea, just something to show that exploration can be encouraged or even forced.

Perhaps a mix in order?   Certain power trees come from combat, some from treasure finding/exploration/general dungeoneering from a given level, and some from descent outright

Then people going heavy on sneaking would get descension bonuses, while fighters would get descension+fighting bonuses. Sneaking characters would still miss out.

[getter77]

There could be scale involved on descension.  Perhaps, within a steep/likely more risky X number of turns you get double the bonus(or more/different, you get the idea) upon descent whereas only a basic gain if you first spent many a turn fighting/exploring and cleared the level.  "Got lucky and found the stairs down early with some Bonus Time to spare...do I risk exploring for a bit more Combat Exp and Loot/Exploration EXP and hope to make it back in time/survive or take my newfound spiffy Super Descender Bonus and rely on it to better handle the next floor?"  Could probably add a similar foil on the "Fighting tree" as well with a guarantee of one powerful "awake" monster per floor(maybe tied to having killed a certain percentage of the initial spawn?) that would only have you getting an especially good Fighting tree boost from that floor upon actually surviving killing it.

Ultimately, full clear folk would be Well balanced and perhaps have solid resources, but the especially dedicated to Killing, Diving, etc would have unique special abilities to show for it and complement their respective approaches.  Those that go for weird mixes of the lot of approaches, whether intentional or simply reacting to prior intentions going horribly awry, would probably wind up rather eclectic indeed.

[Legend]

EDIT: This can be solved by making it extremely hard for a player with poor items to win. A spontaneous idea is a monster that's practically impossible to beat, so you are forced to solve the situation by for example using some item granting invisibility. Maybe not a perfect idea, just something to show that exploration can be encouraged or even forced.

I don't particularly like this idea myself. One of the best things about roguelikes is that the player has quite a bit of freedom and is free to act almost any way they wish. Forcing them to play a certain way would take away from that. Plus it would eventually become stale if the player had to find that one certain item on each and every level then fight the super monster on each level too. 

Then people going heavy on sneaking would get descension bonuses, while fighters would get descension+fighting bonuses. Sneaking characters would still miss out.

I imagine sneaking characters could still get combat bonuses. Especially if they are going to have some sort of back stabbing mechanic.

This would mean that the player is rewarded as much for evading a monster as for killing it. You could build a sneaky character without feeling cheated of xp.

Maybe you could add a way for a sneaky character to gain xp from successfully using their sneaking skills when they manage to sneak past monsters without getting noticed? Like say if they manage to make it all the way past the monsters line of sight without getting noticed. Perhaps they could only be done successfully once or twice so it can't be abused for xp either?

Although I do love the idea of trying to innovate and come up with a different alternative to the usual xp systems, I think some of the ideas may be going a little into left field and becoming a bit over complicated. And may result in forcing the players to play a specific way. I don't think the player should be forced in this way at all.  No offense.

Personally, I think the way the xp system works right now is good. It's simple and rewarding.