Dragon Age, sequel, Mass Effect, sequel, ...

[U]

Ok, after playing Zangband for hundredth time, I decided lets see what do the commercial FRPs of today look like. So I tried DAO DA II, and ME(2).

I was first surprised that my laptop which is four years old was still able to run these games.
So what do they look like? Seems a lot of money goes in the production, real voice actors, even real actors (like martin sheen), spectacular visuals (art is a different topic, tho), all in all an equivalent of Hollywood movies in the gaming world.

And then there are reviewers from all over the web touting these products for mass consumption as something revolutionary and legendary. Ok, voice acting is breathtaking, but the rest - a typical holywood plot, space-opera cliches (in the case of ME2 it is obvious where their inspiration comes from - SF pulp from the factory of Hugo Gernsback and the like). It is sad really.

Will I see in a game something so amazing as in the writings of Leguin, Zelazni, or  Clarke?

Ok, back to my cyberdemons ...

[Krice]

Last good role-playing game was Ultima Underworld 2. RPGs then became fast paced action games that I can't play. You need those reflexes of 15 year old nerd to play them.

[Psiweapon]

Well, if we were hyper-graphics nerds, we wouldn't be playing roguelikes to begin with...

A year ago I bought a cheapo desktop for gaming, and still, lately I find myself playing almost only RLs... they just have a gameplay value that's almost unbeatable, but not clawing your eyes out in case of bad graphics is a requirement.

Anyway, I'm always like at least 3 years behind in commercial games stuff because I just won't f*ckin pay 50 bucks for a DVD... when I actually buy an original game it's usually a newspaper collection release for 6€ and, in truth, I'm buying the password for online play...

Srsly, 40++ € for a plastic disk? like hell. 

[Fenrir]

...not clawing your eyes out in case of bad graphics is a requirement.

If you're feeling the need to claw out your eyes, then stop playing Roguelikes with tilesets, and soak in some soothing ASCII or ANSI instead.

I haven't played a commercial game in a while. I like to tell myself that it is because I have good taste, but my low system resources probably have something to do with it too.

[Psiweapon]

...not clawing your eyes out in case of bad graphics is a requirement.

If you're feeling the need to claw out your eyes, then stop playing Roguelikes with tilesets, and soak in some soothing ASCII or ANSI instead.

But I don't! Seriously, I can't share the confrontation of tiles vs. ascii. I like tiles because I like anything pixel-artish; and I like ascii because they can make a perfectly fine graphic display, and it's like *reading* a game: your imagination puts a lot into it, among other virtues. Another, completely different issue altogether, is if a given RL output looks fugly.

I haven't played a commercial game in a while. I like to tell myself that it is because I have good taste, but my low system resources probably have something to do with it too.

...My love for pixels comes from a period in my life in which I was stuck with a shitty computer in which I could only play 16-bit console emulators and the like.

[kipar]

Srsly, 40++ € for a plastic disk? like hell. 

Here in Russia, we just get everything from torrents for free. But don't tell that anybody.

Last modern RPG i've played are Fallout 3 and Neverwinter Nights 2 - well, the story is no match to Leguin or Zelazni, but is pretty interesting.
NWN is like finished Incursion (with more classes, spells, and levels) but without random world. So it is very playable, but playable only 1-2 times.

[Psiweapon]

Here in spain it's mostly the same, but hush hush... lately I read we're on the Evil Axis of Piracy...  ARRRRR!!!.
I played FO3 a lot, have you tried New Vegas?

Just today I bought Lord of Light by Zelazny in some kind of non-profit garage sale for 1€. It's lysergic.

[kipar]

It's not piracy, it's unauthorized coping. Megacorporations are using label Piracy to convince us that it's bad
Perhaps I should try New Vegas, I'm just afraid to spoil the pleasure from original game.

[Psiweapon]

FNV has it's good spots and it's shortcomings, but overall, has a richer environment than FO3.

[languard]

Ok, after playing Zangband for hundredth time, I decided lets see what do the commercial FRPs of today look like. So I tried DAO DA II, and ME(2).

I am quite curious: As a non-fan of Dragon Age, did you feel that DA2 was better or worse than DA:O?

[Krice]

Megacorporations are using label Piracy to convince us that it's bad

It's bad if you don't get money from what you are doing as your job. Also, it's bad to steal things. Piracy is stealing.

[Fenrir]

It's bad if you don't get money from what you are doing as your job. Also, it's bad to steal things. Piracy is stealing.

Forgive me, Krice, but this isn't completely accurate.

It is bad if one doesn't get money from what one is doing as his job, but, so long as his rights are respected, it is not anyone's problem but his own, so this is not relevant.

Software piracy is not stealing things. Software piracy is violating the agreement that you accepted when you by a license for software. People mistakenly think that they're buying a copy of the software. What they're really buying is the license to use a copy of the software. It's an agreement that, if they offer money, they can and will use the software as the license stipulates, and they should be held to the agreement they made. Software piracy is an injustice, but it's a different injustice than stealing.

Now, exactly how that agreement is presented may be a matter for some dispute, as you usually don't agree until you actually install the software. I believe that the license should be printed on the box, or it should be otherwise more obviously placed so that it is clear what rights you are buying.

[Krice]

Software piracy is an injustice, but it's a different injustice than stealing.

It's stealing. I'm sorry, but that's how it is. Now, imagine yourself creating a cool commercial game that no one buys (but pirates play it). What happened? You just got robbed. You would have got money, but you didn't because of piracy. Sucks, doesn't it?

[Fenrir]

Now, imagine yourself creating a cool commercial game that no one buys (but pirates play it). What happened? You just got robbed. You would have got money, but you didn't because of piracy. Sucks, doesn't it?

This is an appeal to pity. "I don't like it," is insufficient reason for others to enforce particular conditions upon the public, and it doesn't really support the point.

I do agree with you that software piracy is a wrong. I suppose I really have taken objection to your definition of "stealing". I figured that the supporters of software piracy would claim that it isn't stealing because you're not depriving the author use of the object or whatever, so I just wanted to clarify exactly why I thought it a wrong. I was debating semantics. Of course, I wouldn't be so stupid as to suppose that your use of the word "stealing"--whatever it means precisely--makes you incorrect, but I wanted to counter any arguments in favor of software piracy, as I was sure someone would present a different view of what "stealing" means.

In short, I do agree with you, but I didn't agree with the reason you gave or the words you used.

[Z]

Regarding Krice's example: no, you have not been robbed. It just means that the game sucks. You don't get money because the game sucks, not because of piracy. Would-be pirates probably would not buy the game anyway, the choice for them is not between playing the game with paying and playing the game without playing, but rather between playing the game without playing and not playing it at all. The corporation does not lose anything if they decide to play, as long as there are still other people who think that they should pay to play the game. Actually they gain, since the game becomes more well known. You should get money from what you are doing as your job, but only when you are doing something useful, rather than convincing authors, reviewers, users and random bystanders that you are doing something useful and taking money from all of them (this seems to be what some of the publishers actually do).