Author Topic: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend  (Read 14327 times)

Z

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 905
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Z's Roguelike Stuff
"Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« on: June 20, 2010, 12:49:03 AM »
Having combined my experiences from my IVAN3D and cons2tcod...

Necklace of the Eye is a frontend for playing roguelikes. It allows to view the roguelike just like it looked in DOS (which is difficult on newer operating systems), but also allows to add tiles and First Person Perspective displays to arbitrary console roguelikes. And there are also some other minor features.

Necklace of the Eye homepage

getter77

  • Protector of the Temple
  • Global Moderator
  • Rogueliker
  • *****
  • Posts: 4949
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 02:25:14 AM »
Wow...this is wild stuff. Definitely keep at this and try to get up a master list of ones that are found to be/tEye tinkered enough to be compatible.  And videos!  Post on Chaosforge if you've not already/send PM's to staff about some serious doings with this   8)
Brian Emre Jeffears
Aspiring Designer/Programmer/Composer
In Training

Z

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 905
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Z's Roguelike Stuff
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 12:33:49 PM »
I have posted about this on Chaosforge forums, but somehow I did not get any reply (although IMO DoomRL is very fun to play with NotEye's FPP mode). Maybe if I add the missing tiles, so it looks a bit better... ;)

I got feedback on the ADOM forums, though.

I have released a new version of NotEye. The most noticeable improvement (I think) is speed: screen is redrawed faster, which should be helpful for those who just want to use it as a console replacement, without graphics.

getter77

  • Protector of the Temple
  • Global Moderator
  • Rogueliker
  • *****
  • Posts: 4949
  • Karma: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 02:30:10 PM »
Yep, I saw that.  Best way to grab attention is to try and imbed freshly awesome screenshots(and keep the one's onsite current) directly into your posts, as people might not be bothered to click a link just going off descriptions that they might not have click on them.

Definitely keep at it, as speed and graphical considerations are rather swell.   You might also go list diving for some other Roguelikes to showcase on it that the device would/can come to work well with---could wind up sparking some interest in some of them that've fallen out of the public consciousness.   8)
Brian Emre Jeffears
Aspiring Designer/Programmer/Composer
In Training

Legend

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 656
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2011, 08:33:34 AM »
Sorry for the bump. Is there a way to create a shortcut to automatically launch into a specific game with this front end? Instead of having to load games from the console command line?

Z

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 905
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Z's Roguelike Stuff
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 11:14:33 AM »
Yes, if you want e.g. to run the program named "crawl" which is in directory "c:\games\crawl", you should add the following two lines to the config file (.noe):

PATH c:\games\crawl
CMD crawl

(I am not sure if this works when the game and NotEye are on different drives)

Another solution is to put the commands you use to start the game in a .bat file (e.g. mygame.bat) in the NotEye folder and add the line

CMD mygame

Legend

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 656
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2011, 05:54:47 AM »
Sorry, I'm not too clear on the directions.

Quote
if you want e.g. to run the program named "crawl" which is in directory "c:\games\crawl", you should add the following two lines to the config file (.noe):

PATH c:\games\crawl
CMD crawl

Would I create a new config file to do this? Say for Rogue, would I create a new config file named Rogue.noe and put the path and "cmd rogue" in it? Then when it asks me what configuration I want to use, I would input "Rogue"?

Quote
Another solution is to put the commands you use to start the game in a .bat file (e.g. mygame.bat) in the NotEye folder and add the line

CMD mygame

Not too familiar with making .bat files. For the bat file, would I simply put:

noteye.exe
CMD Rogue

If I was trying to run Rogue for example?

Also curious, I haven't tried it yet, but will this work with the Epyx version of Rogue?

I was also curious about what exactly are the differences between the configuration choices like dos and generic?

Thanks for the help.

Z

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 905
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Z's Roguelike Stuff
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2011, 07:10:53 AM »
Quote
if you want e.g. to run the program named "crawl" which is in directory "c:\games\crawl", you should add the following two lines to the config file (.noe):

PATH c:\games\crawl
CMD crawl

Would I create a new config file to do this? Say for Rogue, would I create a new config file named Rogue.noe and put the path and "cmd rogue" in it? Then when it asks me what configuration I want to use, I would input "Rogue"?

Yes, that's what should you do.

Quote
Not too familiar with making .bat files. For the bat file, would I simply put:

noteye.exe
CMD Rogue

If I was trying to run Rogue for example?

I'm not sure what you mean here. A bat file contains a sequence of DOS commands you want to execute. This would be probably "cd [path]" and the name of the game executable. No NotEye (you don't want to call NotEye inside of NotEye). If you have such a bat file, you can just enter its name instead of typing these commands. You can also add "CMD xxx" (where xxx is the name of the bat file) to the config so that the batch file is run automatically.

Quote
Also curious, I haven't tried it yet, but will this work with the Epyx version of Rogue?
I have not tried...

Quote
I was also curious about what exactly are the differences between the configuration choices like dos and generic?

IIRC DOS is a config which just makes any roguelike look like in DOS, Generic is a config which tries to add some
generic graphics to any generically looking roguelike. Thanks for the interest!

Legend

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 656
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 09:16:42 AM »
So, if I made a config file for Rogue, it would simply be a txt file renamed noe and in that file, it would say exactly:

PATH c:\games\roguelikes\rogue
CMD Rogue.exe

?

And that's it? Just those two lines?

Quote
I'm not sure what you mean here. A bat file contains a sequence of DOS commands you want to execute. This would be probably "cd [path]" and the name of the game executable. No NotEye (you don't want to call NotEye inside of NotEye). If you have such a bat file, you can just enter its name instead of typing these commands. You can also add "CMD xxx" (where xxx is the name of the bat file) to the config so that the batch file is run automatically.

I thought a bat file executed several commands, so I figured the bat file had to run noteye.exe as the very first command.

Is there a command line that I could use to make a shortcut that automatically loads the config file like "noteye.exe -Rogue.noe" Something like that so I would simply have to click on ince file that would automatically open noteye with the specified game loaded up? So I could just make different shortcuts for each game?

Thank you very much for all the help and patience.

Are you still working on this? I had a couple feature requests/ideas if it's ok to share them.

Since you were able to make a generic tile set, I was wondering if it would also be able to make a generic sound set to use for games that ordinarily don't have sounds. Some generic sounds for things like wands zapping, getting hit, slashing, throwing/shooting, picking up coins and items, going down stairs, maybe a death cry, etc. I think simple sounds like that would be a really nice feature. I love the very few roguelikes that have sound, but still use console style interface like doomrl.

Also wondering if it would be possible to make it load and play music files? It would be nice to load up a set of songs in a config file and have the game play them in a random order everytime you enter a new level.  As in play one song on a loop during the level, but each time you switch levels, the the song changes.

The last idea was to enable a console background pic, but I think that might kinda go against the main idea of being more pure console like I think you are trying to do. Always though it would be kinda cool to play Rogue with console graphics but with something like a scroll or parchment as the background.

Also a readme/help txt file in the download package with documentation on how to use the program and commands. A little more detailed and thorough too. I had to guess to use "Exit" to figure out how to close the program.

Hope I'm not being rude by sharing these ideas.

Thank you again.

***EDIT

Quote
Quote
Also curious, I haven't tried it yet, but will this work with the Epyx version of Rogue?
I have not tried...

Just tried it. It works. But has a few issues. Pressing ALT+F doesn't work to try the first person mode. I just get the "Unknown command /x" message in game. Neither does the mini map.

It doesn't seem to want to start in dos configuration. It just hangs and I have to alt+tab out of it for it to start. It doesn't seem to want to start in the sdl app window and it skips the intro screen.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 11:49:23 AM by Legend »

Z

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 905
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Z's Roguelike Stuff
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 03:02:02 PM »
So, if I made a config file for Rogue, it would simply be a txt file renamed noe and in that file, it would say exactly:

PATH c:\games\roguelikes\rogue
CMD Rogue.exe

?

And that's it? Just those two lines?

No, you have to add the whole contents on the config file you were using previously. (And the two extra lines can be put right at the start of the file, or wherever you want.)

Quote
Is there a command line that I could use to make a shortcut that automatically loads the config file like "noteye.exe -Rogue.noe" Something like that so I would simply have to click on ince file that would automatically open noteye with the specified game loaded up? So I could just make different shortcuts for each game?

Yes, "noteye.exe Rogue.noe" will launch Noteye and load Rogue.noe without asking. (And you can put this as the "target" of a Windows shortcut.)

Quote
Thank you very much for all the help and patience.

Are you still working on this? I had a couple feature requests/ideas if it's ok to share them.

I think there is not enough interest in NotEye, and I have too many other work and roguelike projects to do, so it seems that it will stay in the current not very developed state for a long time. But I think the following features could be useful:

  • A Linux port.
  • Better documentation, as you mention.
  • Sounds and music, as you mention. The console background pic is also a very good idea, I don't think it is against the main idea of NotEye (pure DOS console is just one of the options NotEye gives).
  • Better configfile format. For example add some 'include' mechanism which allows sharing parts of configs between games.
  • Scripting (probably in Lua), so that the config writers will be able to write simple programs, able to understand the more complicated aspects of the interface which the current system cannot (also show/hide parts of screen, read and modify the keyboard input, play sounds etc.)
Quote
Hope I'm not being rude by sharing these ideas.
Thank you again.

Of course not, thanks for the ideas :) Unfortunately I don't plan to work on them for now.

Quote
Just tried it. It works. But has a few issues.
These issues are quite weird. I don't know much about Epyx Rogue, so I don't know what's the reason.

Bear

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2011, 06:31:35 PM »
This is interesting, but I have two problems with it:

1.  It doesn't run on my (linux) development box.

2.  I don't know how it would handle some of the extended calls to the console that my game does.  I start off by querying the console to find out its dimensions (in character cells) and adjust the game's display layout depending on what the answer is.  And I respond to display-resize messages by re-laying out the game display, so the game "does the right thing" if somebody grabs the corner of the console window and pulls it to a different aspect ratio or size.

Would a noe version of the game have to have a fixed window size/aspect ratio (as measured in character cells visible to the game on noe's "virtual console?") I guess I could do that; I think it looks best around 50 lines x 160 columns or so.

The noe configuration file tells noe what character cells are used for which purpose in the display.  But the display subregions change dimensions (and locations!) depending on the console size, so even if noe handles some resizing, a game that actually uses resizing  would need a way to communicate its new layout configuration to noe. 

Legend

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 656
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2011, 07:17:03 PM »
Thanks for the help. I got the Configs and bat files working.

Quote
I think there is not enough interest in NotEye, and I have too many other work and roguelike projects to do, so it seems that it will stay in the current not very developed state for a long time.

Maybe it just hasn't been around and quite long enough. I think more active development with updates would probably help it to get more attention. I'm sure eventual different ports would also help to get more attention too

Tried it with a few more games. I tried it with MAG, Rogue 1.1, and Frozen Depths.
Seems none of them will use the fpp mode or use mini map with the dos configuration. Did I miss a setting that must be put in the config file?

Those features did work with frozen depths when I used the frozen configuration, but it would not run full screen.  Cannot seem to get the movement to work correctly in the fpp mode. Can't switch the tiles off in fpp mode either.

Running Frozen Depths in dos configuration does not let me hold the movement keys down to move several spaces/turns. I have to continually tap the directional keys to move one space at a time.

MAG and Rogue 1.1 had the same problem of none of the keys besides the arrow keys would not work. I have to alt tab out of the sdl app window and into the console window in order to get the keys to work. Switching windows negates the benefit of having the nicer colors.

Whenever I start anything with dos configuration, there is a blinking dos cursor stuck on the screen during the whole game.  

I hope you do decide to continue development. It seems to have great potential. I think sounds and music would be a great feature and one that would gather it a bit more attention. Like a console version of falcon's eye that works for any roguelike.

Z

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 905
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Z's Roguelike Stuff
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2011, 11:44:53 PM »
A Linux port is definitely a need. I suppose I would just assume the console stays of the same size, I can assume that there is no reason to change that in-game (i.e., the SDL window would not be resizable, and in Linux there would be no need to display the underlying console, I don't know whether this can be circumvented in Windows). The scripting ability I mentioned earlier would allow one to automatically adjust the game window size.

DOS config contains no graphical information, so it cannot do tiles nor minimap. For Frozen Depths you should use the Frozen configuration (but I don't know why full screen and directions are not working for you). For others, the generic config might work or it might need some editing.

Legend

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 656
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: "Necklace of the Eye" roguelike frontend
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2011, 12:34:47 AM »
Quote
DOS config contains no graphical information, so it cannot do tiles nor minimap. For Frozen Depths you should use the Frozen configuration (but I don't know why full screen and directions are not working for you). For others, the generic config might work or it might need some editing.

I did use the frozen configuration file. Everytime I start a game it opens the game in 2 windows. The console and the sdl_app window. I can make frozen depths go fullscreen in the console window, but not in the sdl window. The direction keys work for regular play, but not when trying to play in the first person mode.

I tried using generic for frozen depths too, but still no luck with getting the sdl window to go full screen or even max screen.

The problem with not being able to use any keys or movement only happens so far with Rogue 1.1 and MAG.

So the first person mode only works with tiles enabled?

I think the issue with the Epyx version of Rogue might have to do with the Title screen since it is a cga picture file that is loaded from a separate file from the main program instead of an ascii text  title screen like most other roguelikes. You can find the Epyx Rogue game here: http://www.roguelikedevelopment.org/archive/index.php
In case you want to try it out and see for yourself what I've been talking about.

Quote
Whenever I start anything with dos configuration, there is a blinking dos cursor stuck on the screen during the whole game.  

I was slightly mistaken. The issue with the blinking cursor appears in the sdl_app window. Not the console window. And it happens with dos, generic, and the other configurations.

I wish I could do a better job of explaining the issues I'm having. I'm using windows xp by the way on a gateway laptop if that makes a difference.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 06:14:01 AM by Legend »