ToME on RPS

[Darren Grey]

Good to see ToME and roguelikes in general getting some celebration on Rock, Paper, Shotgun:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/07/tome-is-where-the-heart-is-happy-new-roguelike/

[dendyaalice]

Have you seen their reviews for RPS? They are the coolest ones to review the game. I always read on their blog for new downloads too.

[akeley]

Exposure sure is a  good thing, and yet most of the time such article or review appears it will contain the usual sniping...how ASCII/interface/difficulty sucks and why Dredmor is king. The tone`s sort of sheepish and sounds like it tries to excuse the existence of those uncouth poor cousins (i.e. giant originators & traditional RLs)

You also get to read comments like these:

"I loved Dredmor, and I like roguelikelikes like* FTL. I am a big superficial person and cannot get past the primitiveness of your typical roguelike, and I don’t really know very much about the genre outside of the most well-known games. What other visually non-crappy roguelikes are out there and worth playing?"

Primitiveness? Oh, boy...

[guest509]

@Akeley -Yeah, many cannot get around the graphics. Just can't.

I recommend Cardinal Quest II to those types. Very approachable, very fun.

[Samildanach]

It took me a long time to adjust to ASCII. People used to tell me "you'll get used to it after a while" and my response was usually something like "I don't want to get used to it. I have no interest in suffering." As it turns out, I was wrong. My point is although it's easy to see from the pro-ASCII side that there are games well worth getting used to ASCII for, it's not so clear from the other side. As I've remarked elsewhere, when I first tried ASCII games I couldn't even tell what was happening. It just looked like an unintelligible jumble to me.

I suppose in one sense it could be considered wise to take an anti-ASCII stance if publishing an article on roguelikes for newcomers to the genre. It will sound like the writer is on the same wavelength as the reader, and thereby encourage them to try out some of these games. So in that sense, being anti-ASCII in articles might actually be a better way to bring in new players than defending ASCII to the hilt.

[akeley]

I suppose in one sense it could be considered wise to take an anti-ASCII stance if publishing an article on roguelikes for newcomers to the genre. It will sound like the writer is on the same wavelength as the reader, and thereby encourage them to try out some of these games.

Hmph, don`t you think the only result of this ploy would be putting them off ASCII forever? "Hah, told you they is crap, even the RPS dude says so!".

But okay, I know what you`re saying, and sure, the reviewer is using this to level with those unconvinced. It`s just I really don`t think it`s the right way forward. Instead of negativity they should explain the benefits of simple gfx - the fact that this is when your imagination takes over (and beats any ol` zillions of polygons swirling around), clean design and so on. And also the fact that "primitive" gfx doesn`t equal primitive mechanics. To the contrary - it allows for a couple of dudes to write one of the most complex PC games ever...

But it`s not just the graphics. In fact, I totally understand why people are scared of ASCII, despite that I`m an oldtimer brought up during arcade/8-bit era. I like me some decent tiles...it`s all about the design. Thing is it doesn`t stop there, next up they attack lack of sound/interface and most importantly, permadeath. Eventually stripping off all the elements that make a roguelike a, well, roguelike. Leading to the bizarre paradox best summed up by : "why don`t you just stick with normal RPGs"?

Okay I`m rambling, but the reason for this is that I sort of have  seen it before. This is the kinda thing that happened to my beloved turn-based RPGs - after Diablo/BG came out there was a constant harping on and on about how turns are an "outdated" concept and real time is the don. Result? Total wipeout of TB RPGs for nearly a decade, we only do see some revival in recent years. Similarly jRPGs - and Japanese games in general - once the hacks and COD-gen of gamers started hatin`, the translations dried up, publishers freaked out and now you have sign petitions to get some localised here (whereas there was 150 jRPGs on PS2 alone).

Yes, we all want our fave genre to get the props and recognition and for more people to appreciate these wonderful games. And it`d be great - it`s just there`s also danger in that angle, the danger of losing its identity while seeking to appease the great Newcomer God. Careful, for it can be a ruthless one