THE Commercial Roguelike

[Omnivorous]

I've been into computer and console (video games) since I was very young. I somehow got dragged into the RPG-genre...slowly, but steadily, and same from regular RPGs and into roguelikes.

Now, I got really hooked on Diablo, and even more so when Diablo 2 arrived. What suprises me is that EVERYONE that call themselves a "gamer" on PC, has played Diablo2, but noone know what a roguelike is, or the fact that most of the elements that made a simple hack'n slash RPG such as Diablo2 so exciting is mostly thanks to roguelike-elements.

After Diablo2 came some "Diablolikes", but many of them discarded the RL-elements Diablo had, such as random dungeons etc.

Why is no big-time commercial RPG-games EMBRACING roguelike-mechanisms? I don't get it. :-)

[Krice]

or the fact that most of the elements that made a simple hack'n slash RPG such as Diablo2 so exciting is mostly thanks to roguelike-elements.

What roguelike elements? Random generation can't be owned by roguelike genre and that's about the only thing connecting Diablo and roguelikes. For me Diablo has always been, like you said, a simple hack-n-slash RPG that feels more like ancient Gauntlet than a roguelike.

[getter77]

"Roguelike" isn't an expressive marketing buzzword or catchphrase.  "Hack n' Slash", for example, is much moreso.

I mean, on the face, the Roguelike term is essentially "Yeah man, we're like Rogue ya know?  No, not the X-Men Rogue, an old game called Rogue that didn't sell much but was totally influential!  But you've not really heard of the term else you wouldn't be asking....but still~"


In other words, blame Blizzard for not throwing a tiny damned bone for the lexicon's sake in their Diablo/Diablo II overt marketing and ingame presentation and marrying the actual "Roguelike" term into their successful mishmash for the captive audience of addicts.   

[Omnivorous]

I didn't say "random generation" is owned by roguelike. Atleast that wasn't my point. My point is: RLs carry a certain feel to them, they add elements which make the gaming-experience truly unique.

Why has no big commercial developer, (who is aware of how superior the gaming-experience in roguelikes are, once you get into it) embraced some of the features that roguelikes represent, and used them successfully in a big title with beautiful graphics and great story elements?

Not because I am a diehard RL-fan, that is ranting about "how much credit rogue deserves", but simply because I am tired of boring repetative games that top the charts and lists, and is what people love to play and talk about.

[siob]

Why has no big commercial developer, (who is aware of how superior the gaming-experience in roguelikes are, once you get into it) embraced some of the features that roguelikes represent, and used them successfully in a big title with beautiful graphics and great story elements?

what kind of features do you mean? if i take this list: http://www.roguetemple.com/roguelike-definition/ then every item on the list has been (ab)used by commercial games

[Omnivorous]

Why has no big commercial developer, (who is aware of how superior the gaming-experience in roguelikes are, once you get into it) embraced some of the features that roguelikes represent, and used them successfully in a big title with beautiful graphics and great story elements?

what kind of features do you mean? if i take this list: http://www.roguetemple.com/roguelike-definition/ then every item on the list has been (ab)used by commercial games

Well. I want to play a bigtime, commercial, highend graphical and story-driven roguelike that I easily can pass to my friends. Does that already exist? Show me.

[Fenrir]

what kind of features do you mean? if i take this list: http://www.roguetemple.com/roguelike-definition/ then every item on the list has been (ab)used by commercial games

Have all of them been (ab)used at once in the same game? I think that is what Omnivorous means, if I may risk attributing something to him that he did not write.

[Z]

Not because I am a diehard RL-fan, that is ranting about "how much credit rogue deserves", but simply because I am tired of boring repetative games that top the charts and lists, and is what people love to play and talk about.

I think that an average "commercial" gamer feels cheated if the game is too short, that's why commercial games are so "boring and repetitive". Also he likes to win the game, so no permadeath. Even if this is not true, that's probably what the publishers think.

I think Diablo has a slight roguelike feeling to it, even though it has no permadeath, other roguelike elements are extremely dumbed down. Although a more proper description would be, an action game with some minor roguelike elements mixed in.

I have tried playing Diablo II with another character after winning with one character, but it was extremely boring. That should not happen in roguelikes. (Original Diablo was better in that regard.)

Why has no big commercial developer, (who is aware of how superior the gaming-experience in roguelikes are, once you get into it) embraced some of the features that roguelikes represent, and used them successfully in a big title with beautiful graphics and great story elements?

I am not sure how good were they for their times, but old commercial roguelikes (Valhalla/Ragnarok, JauntTrooper) did not achieve commercial success, even though I consider them very good roguelikes even now. But of course popularity also depends on marketing, luck, and so on.

[Twiccan]

I know it's been a month since the last post in this topic, but I thought I would reply with some "commercial roguelikes".

There is the huge, and hugely popular in Japan, series of rl's called the "Mystery Dungeon" series:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_Dungeon

There is a game that came out for the PS2 and Wii called Baroque:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroque_%28video_game%29

There is Champions of Norrath for the PS2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_of_Norrath

They made a mod for Neverwinter Nights called Infinite Dungeons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights:_Infinite_Dungeons_%28module%29

There are more listed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_dungeon