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Messages - elwin

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: November 26, 2015, 09:08:43 PM »
I was playing on the testing server a few days ago.  The game started normally but kept improving.  I rustproofed my ring mail early on, and found a long sword.  I found a lot of food and a normal amount of gold.  Later I found a two-handed sword and got my strength up to 17.  But the best part was the HP increases.  By XL 10, I was up to 86.  I can't remember ever getting that high, even at XL 12.  I thought I had a good chance of at least meeting a Dragon.

Then on level 19, I blundered into a Medusa and a Venus flytrap on the same turn.  I had a wand of polymorph and managed to turn the Medusa into a Kestrel, but I couldn't get away from the Venus flytrap and I was too confused to hit it.

I hope I'm the only player who's ever had a 86-HP character pecked to death by a chirping Kestrel.

Later I discovered that Venus flytraps are not immune to polymorph and I should have tried zapping it again.


I guess there's enough interest in a tournament that I should do one.  It will work like the NetHack or DCSS tournaments - all games played in a two-week period are part of it.  Winners will be chosen by highest average score.

Quote from: Squeeealer
Are we watching each other play or is the format conducive to some sense of community?  I would love to be able to chat during runs on rlg.

I should be able to add chat functionality to the Web player without much trouble.

Quote from: Pertinax
Speaking of feature requests, it would be cool to be able to filter my past games based on score or max dungeon level reached, rather than just having an arbitrarily long table where a third of the entries are "killed by a hobgoblin on lvl 1."

That's another good idea that I should be able to implement quickly.

I've got a bug fix or two that are top priority right now.  After that I'll work on these suggestions, and then I can schedule a tournament.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: November 21, 2015, 07:41:22 PM »
Hi Pertinax, I'm glad you're having fun. If it wasn't for you and the few other players who showed up recently, I might have shut down the server, but I certainly can't now.

You're right about the ring of dexterity. I should have said there's no internal dexterity stat. Like Ancient said, the ring works by getting added into the calculations along with your weapon's to-hit bonus.

Is anyone interested in a tournament? I tried to hold one before, but no one came.

Also, does anyone ever watch ttyrec files? Would you if I made it possible to replay them in the Web player?

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: November 20, 2015, 08:47:23 PM »
Maybe I need to stop dropping off the Internet. Sorry about downtime. Sometimes the hosting company reboots the server, and then I have to find out about it and manually restart the Web player. But if the scoreboard page is up, you should be able to play via SSH.

About the 10% death tax: the original developers wanted to give people a tough choice between quitting with a higher score and maybe surviving to do even better. But nobody ever quits.

About items disappearing and reappearing: yes, certain monsters will pick them up.

About the mechanics: they are really quite simple, unlike later games which apply complicated formulas to everything.

What affects how much damage you take when you get hit?
The monster. Each monster type has a particular number of hit dice with a particular number of sides. They all get rolled and added up.

What affects your ability to dodge an attack?
The monster's level and your AC.

What affects how much damage you do when your attack hits?
Your weapon.  It has hit dice just like monsters do.

What affects whether you hit your opponent?
Your experience level and the monster's AC, just like when it attacks you.

Dexterity does not exist in Rogue. Leveling up gives a 5% boost to your chance to hit, every time.

Maybe you don't understand everything, but you and Pertinax are certainly tearing up my high score list.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 13, 2015, 02:56:51 PM »
Congratulations on winning!

The tip about farming XP on levels 12 or 16 sounds useful. So does waiting in doorways to see if Medusas or anything else nasty is awake inside.

Warning: if you are playing online and quit whenever there's no two-handed sword, you will get a lot of zeroes on your score page. I don't have a good way of filtering them like the NetHack and DCSS tournaments do.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 04, 2015, 05:33:08 PM »
What is he talking about with "make monsters walk over each scroll?"  Does it apply to V5?

Monsters will not step on a scroll of scare monster, even if you are not standing on top of it. This lets you identify such scrolls without having to use them. It works in V5.

The ring of stealth makes monsters more likely to stay asleep. I'll have to look up the details.

That link is valuable. I was going to object to his saying armor isn't critical, but I realized he's concerned about the 20+ levels, where everything nasty hits you almost all the time even if you have great AC. Slightly good players like me are just trying to make it to level 18, where armor still matters.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: July 08, 2015, 12:12:23 AM »
You reached #3, that's still a big score.

I arrived on a level in the middle of a treasure room and lived, which I don't think I've ever done before.  There was a two-handed sword in the loot!  But then I got less than 3 HP from multiple levelings up and quickly got crushed by a Centaur.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: June 22, 2015, 01:52:20 PM »
OK - I'm on your top ten list now

Well done!

How can I cancel a command?  Like when I go to quaff something and change my mind what can I do?

ESC to escape.

How can I examine a trap to see what kind of trap it is?

Stand next to it and hit '^' followed by the direction.

Someday I'm going to write a nice Web-based interface with tiles and things to click. Maybe I'll even get around to it this decade.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: June 19, 2015, 12:26:15 PM »
The part about a +4 mace was extremely helpful.  Can you expand that to include info on a long sword?

Good idea, I'll do that.

Love your site. I'll check it out when I get home. How can I figure out what keystrokes do what?

Hit the '?' key.

What is your opinion of busting open hidden passages?

I never thought of leaving them blocked. I'll have to try it.

@ant: I came across your work on Rog-O-Matic a few months ago and was intrigued. Right now I'm busy with new stuff for the Roguelike Gallery, but in a few weeks I should have the time to take a close look. Then maybe we can collaborate on squashing bugs.

Several good points in this thread. I agree about the lack of innovation. Surely we can procedurally generate game worlds more complex and original than monster-filled dungeons. Surely we can invent game mechanics more interesting than hack and slash. I think Cogmind and URR look promising, but they both have a long way to go.

I'm skeptical about the paid model of development producing quality roguelikes. Like Holsety said, gameplay matters more than in other genres. A roguelike needs to be balanced, free from grinding, frustration, and bugs, and that takes a lot of long-term playtesters giving useful feedback. Classic roguelike history is full of lone developers adding new mechanics and breaking the gameplay. Maybe a lone genius with a Great Vision can substitute for an open-source, open-suggestion community, but I fear the failures will outnumber the successes.

I also agree about much of the new wave being driven by the hope of making money. I don't think this will last. People are always jumping to new platforms that promise small developers can make big money, and it never works for long. But in twenty years, when Steam is out of business and iOS 24 won't run today's games, will there remain anything they have contributed to the genre?

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: June 18, 2015, 02:31:26 PM »
I wrote an article about surviving the deep levels, with some general tips. I hope it's helpful.

About Medusas, have you tried fighting them in corridors? That way, if it confuses you, you either hit it or move away from it, and can't blunder right next to it where it can hit you for free.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: June 11, 2015, 02:06:40 PM »
I usually source-dive, but the Vade-Mecum includes nearly everything useful.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: June 10, 2015, 07:01:28 PM »
Any idea how long enemies are held once you use a scroll of hold monster?

Until you attack them.

One final question for this post - when you level up, are there any hidden attributes that get bumped up?

Not hidden attributes, but some calculations are affected. As you've probably noticed, you heal faster. Each level up gives you a 5% greater chance of hitting a monster. You are less likely to be poisoned, paralyzed, robbed by leprechauns, etc. Healing potions get more effective. Dart and arrow traps seem to be more likely to hit you, though I can't guess why.

Assuming TileRogue is based on the classic Rogue, without changes to the combat system...

Yes, the two-handed sword does more damage than the long sword. All weapon types have an equal chance of hitting. Only the to-hit enchantment affects that chance.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: June 09, 2015, 08:44:44 PM »
What I should have asked is how to use a scroll of monster hold.  Do I just read it and ALL monsters on the floor are frozen for a short period?

No, only the monsters within 2 spaces of you. If there are none you get the "sense of loss" message.

What is happening when I use a wand and it says I feel a tingling sensation?  It must be different than when my nose tingles because it does not help me find food, so something else must be going on.

That's a wand of drain life, a powerful but risky item. It only works when there are monsters in sight.

In my version of this game it is apparent to me that the amount of food I have in inventory can affect whether food appears on the next floor. Because of this, I have started eating my food just before I descend to the next floor to improve my chances of finding more food.

Are you sure the amount of food in your inventory is the reason? In most versions, a food ration is guaranteed if no food was generated on the previous three levels.

If you've reached Medusas on level 18, you're doing quite well. (Here are some statistics for comparison.) Surviving the rest of the game requires a large amount of luck. I hope you make it!

Design / Re: Going beyond hack and slash
« on: February 02, 2015, 04:29:11 PM »
I suspect that radical change is required. Moving away from combat by just adding alternatives is going to be difficult.

The goal in playing a roguelike is to come up with tactics and strategies that you can use to solve any randomly generated problems you may encounter. You shouldn't think of hack and slash combat as a means to the goal of winning. Solving the problem of combat is the goal. Character progression, world exploration, and achieving objectives are only there to make combat meaningful and keep it interesting.

To make a non-combat roguelike, you will need to find a different problem which can be randomly generated and which players can solve by discovering tactics and strategies. Make a game about that problem, and get rid of hack and slash.

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