Messages

46

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 27, 2009, 08:50:01 AM »

Good work, Numeron.

I visited the bottom level of the Swamp recently and found that it was different than in previous versions of DCSS. I didn't have to deal with confusion attacks, and packs of hydras and dragons, but instead, there were slowing gas clouds, an oklob plant with corrosion attacks, spectral dragons and zombies. The older version of the Decarying Rune level may still be in there, but it may as well have been replaced by a newer version. What did the level look like when you played it?

Don't worry about taking off your gourmand amulet. It takes some time to get re-attuned to it, but you won't starve in the meantime.

Archaalen: that's one hell of an artefact weapon you got there. Great set of resistances for Swamp and Snake. You should've used blink or teleport to flee from that yak a lot earlier though; it can gore you for a lot more damage than 13HP if it has it in for you. I'm interested in the portal chambers you visited; which ones did you enter, and what were they like?

47

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 26, 2009, 10:28:32 PM »

You're safe with boots, hats, and caps. Helmets are heavy, so wearing one gives a penalty to spellcasting. I'm not sure about gauntlets, but I think there's a penalty; try gloves instead. If I'm not mistaken all armour types are described as either light or heavy; that's all you need to care about. Keep in mind racial exceptions, though. Anyway, spellcasters can have decent Armour Class, given enough enchant armour scrolls or some luck with artefacts.

I think I can relate to 'caring' about characters, and losing interest if you pick up an old game. To me, the key is playing one character at the time, and taking some time to get back to the character between loading and setting off. Also, and this may sound silly, in some games I like taking notes (with the ":" command) to write an in-character report of my progress. This is essentially a waste of time, but making up a background story as you go, and reading it back before you continue a saved game ("?:" command) may strengthen the bond to your character. I've been a psychotic dwarf in search of his brothers, who hollered down staircases and mistook the echoes for answers; an absent-minded milkman who fell down the basement stairs; and a hideously arrogant trollish third grade teacher explaining the health benefits of a strict corpse diet. You get the idea.

48

Classic Roguelikes / Re: DCSS Junk potions and scrolls

« on: October 26, 2009, 10:40:35 AM »

Somehow I managed to miss this thread all along...

*SPOILERS*

You can safely ditch Scrolls of Random Uselessness, Curse Weapon/Armour, and Paper. Scrolls of Noise and Fear are almost useless, too. If you're carrying Remove Curse, you can stash your Detect Curse scrolls. Scrolls of Fog, Vulnerability, Immolation, and Torment have their uses, but they involve some risk to your character, so I usually stash or ditch those as well.

Some scrolls can be used as soon as you find them. This goes for Scrolls of Enchant Weapon/Armour, Recharging, Acquirement, and Vorpalize Weapon. You may be tempted to save these for 'later', but in my experience, 'later' usually turns out to be right after you were blasted by a fireball.

You can safely ditch Potions of Confusion, Slowing, Paralysis, (Strong) Poison, Degeneration, and Decay (unless of course you have the Evaporate spell). Potions of Porridge and Water are actually food, and Water is nearly useless. Potions of Experience or Gain Str/Int/Dex can be taken right away; the same goes for Mutation if you're feeling lucky. Potions of Berserk Rage may be redundant for Berserkers, Potions of Magic are useless to non-spellcasters, and potions of (Coagulated) Blood are useless to non-vampires as far as I know.

Safe places for stashing are the Temple, Lair:2, and the bottom level of the Hive. It's not necessary to collect and stash anything and everything just to remove threats. Do remove curare needles, most wands (especially draining), weapons of distortion or pain, vampric weapons, weapons of venom if you don't have poison resistance, weapons of electrocution if you don't have insulation, orc slaying if you're an orc, dragon slaying if you're a draconian, and holy wrath if you're undead.

If you're absolutely sure you don't need an item, you don't want anything to wander off with it, and can't stash it, you can throw it into deep water or lava. You can in fact throw any item with the "f" command, if you press "f*" to select any item from your inventory.

This all assumes you've somehow been able to identify everything you find, which isn't going to happen. It's probably wise to take unidentified wands, and weapons/missiles/armour with special descriptions, to stash them somewhere safe.

Oh, and another good way to save inventory space is to use darts and rocks for throwing in stead of daggers, spears, or hand axes. To avoid being burdened, try dropping some items off a heap in your inventory; use "d#i" where "d" is the Drop command, "#" is a number, and "i" is the letter of the item to drop.

49

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 26, 2009, 09:09:20 AM »

1) A Ring of Hunger makes you consume more food; a Ring of Sustenance makes you consume less. You'll also consume more if you're wearing an artefact ring/amulet which "(greatly) speeds your metabolism". Others have no influence.

2) I have no idea, really. I don't think that Spellcasting skill and character level strictly influence the number of spell levels to spend. Spellcasting skill increases the power of your spells when cast, and character level limits the level of spells you're allowed to memorize. My best guess is that levels to spend on memorizing spells are assigned when you level up, perhaps based on Spellcasting skill.

3) Wearing an Amulet of the Gourmand and having the Saprovore mutation makes it less likely for you to get ill from eating contaminated or rotten meat. In my experience, separate chunks (even from the same monster) have a disjoint likelihood of making you ill. I.e. whether or not you become ill seems to be determined at the time you eat a chunk, not when the chunk is generated.

4) Wearing heavy armour has a negative effect on casting spells, wearing light armour does not. Bucklers, caps, wizard hats, boots, cloaks and gloves are all considered light armour. (Heavy) shields and helmets are heavy armour. I'm not sure about gauntlets, but my guess is they're heavy, too. Armour enchantment doesn't alter the effect on spellcasting. Racial type does. Dwarven armour has an increased penalty on spellcasting (unless you're a Dwarf). Elven armour has a decreased penalty on spellcasting (more so if you're an Elf), plus all types of Elven armour are considered light.

5) Personally, no. I do need some time to get into the game if I pick it up where I left it, but I usually start playing by checking my stats, inventory, spells, piety, abilities, mutations and resistances. I tend to forget a lot between playing sessions. On the other hand, after an hour or so of playing, I'm inclined to go on autopilot, and make stupid mistakes, which is as dangerous as forgetfulness. True Crawl Zen is a delicate balance between mindfulness, zoning out, and well-timed cigarette breaks.

No notable progress, because I've had very little time to play during the past couple of days. My best char was a L11 Deep Elf Conjurer, Shining Star of Vehumet, slain by Edmund on D:8. I can't really recommend Vehumet for Enchanters, although I've never tried that combination. Vehumet seems more suited for Conjurers, Elementalists, and Venom Mages. Have you considered Sif Muna?

50

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 22, 2009, 10:41:02 AM »

Ooh, nice going.

I wouldn't try Snake without poison resistance. I'd say try the upper levels of the Elven Halls if you have magic resistance (or have enough piety to get it from Trog a couple of times). Then go for the Swamp and try to clear as many levels as you can without poison resistance, or, if you have corrosion resistance (and preferrably mutation resistance), try the Slime Pits. If you still can't find poison resistance, clear the main dungeon to level 20 or 21, but be very cautious.

I think the Hive can be done without poison resistance if you watch your health closely and go upstairs to rest regularly, but it won't be comfortable.

51

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 22, 2009, 09:52:11 AM »

I could be wrong, but I don't think Makhleb or Lugonu give gifts at all; Xom does, but this is independent of piety, and his gifts can be endlessly annoying, useless, or lethal.

Regarding race/class choice: if you're a noob, I can recommend the tutorial choices. Play the Minotaur Berserker and the Deep Elf Conjurer, and if you feel like it, the Centaur Hunter. These are the archetypical melee fighter, spellcaster, and ranged fighter combos. If you get the hang of those, try some 'good random' characters. I think many players mistakenly emphasize the importance of race/class choice, while disregarding the importance of playing/survival skills.

The amulet of the gourmand is one of my favourites too, especially in the early game. It's seriously overpowered though, even after the (good) design choice to only make it effective after you've been wearing it for some time.

52

Programming / Re: Puzzles in a randomly generated dungeon

« on: October 20, 2009, 02:16:33 PM »

I'm no NetHack fan, but I played it a few times long ago, and came across a puzzle which I liked a lot.

In a branch off the main dungeon, there are some small levels that consist of floor tiles, pits, and boulders. Effectively it's an ASCII version of Sokoban. The only way to reach the down stairs is to push every boulder into a pit. If you solve four levels, there's some reward.

I believe these levels were hardcoded, and one out of several variations would be randomly picked for each level. Generating random solvable Sokoban levels with controlled difficulty could be interesting, in a 'head explodes' kind of way.


Edit: another one is ChessRogue. I've never played it, but restricting (N)PC movement (like chess pieces) looks like a brilliant idea for emergent difficulty. And as far as I can imagine it can be done on freely generated levels, without a need for pathfinding or your memory regurgitating all kinds of NP-completeness.

53

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 20, 2009, 12:12:17 PM »

Praying doesn't lower piety, with just a few exceptions. Followers of Zin who pray while starving get fed at the cost of piety. Followers of Elyvilon may be saved from death while praying at the cost of piety; they'll also lose piety and are punished for killing while praying.

Usually, prayer itself isn't beneficial to the player; it allows chars to raise their piety by sacrificing corpses or items. In the original Crawl, gaining piety from killing required praying. This meant you had to be praying almost continuously, so it was removed in Stone Soup.

Followers of Trog only need to pray to sacrifice corpses. As Omnivorous said, it's good to sacrifice often. Trog's always hungry. With enough piety he'll grant you abilities you may need to survive later. Using these abilities lowers piety, especially if you call in reinforcements. If you can raise piety to five or six stars, Trog will start giving you lots of useful items.

54

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 18, 2009, 09:45:42 AM »

I know I more or less can easily get far with a MiBe.. but meh, I got pretty bored of it. I don't think it's very fun.. Now my problem is, I have a very hard time understanding how, and making it long with any caster classes.. Anyone with success with a caster/hybrid that can reccomend something and maybe share some tactics with that combination? :-)

The early game is boring for melee fighters. They become more fun to play after the Lair and the Orc Mines, i.e. when need to rely on resistances and tactics. The bottom of the Swamp is usually the place where things start to get more interesting. For conjurers and elementalists it's the exact opposite. The early game can be very challenging, but once you've cleared the Swamp, you're pretty much unstoppable for anything that doesn't have a ranged attack.

If you want to get the hang of playing spellcasters, I'd recommend conjurers or elementalists. The first thing you'll want to do is get to the Temple and worship Vehumet. On the way to the Temple, rest for full HP and MP whenever you get a chance. Retreat into the explored area after a fight to reduce chances of an encounter. Learn all spells you can, but try to cast only your cheapest spell to avoid spell hunger and miscast effects; the power of your cheapest spells will grow with your Int and casting skills. Collect missiles and daggers to do ranged damage in case you're out of MP. Don't disarm traps, but lure monsters over them; you'll be surprised how effective they can be even against strong melee fighters like gnolls and orcs. Don't forget to use early sources of damage/obstruction, such as poison, confusion, paralysis, or throwing nets. And if you come across an item that would be hazardous if someone used it a aginst you, take it with you, or move it to the level above. Also, look out for early sources of speed, blinking and teleportation; you'll probably need those early and often.

EDIT: one trick I use often but forgot to mention, is to explore the edges of the map first, then explore inward. It'll take longer than auto-explore, but it's much safer. You won't attract as many crowds, and you'll probably train stealth, which gives you the option of avoiding strong opponents if they fail to notice you.

55

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 17, 2009, 11:59:57 PM »

No, I was trying to get the Rune. I'd never cleared the Slime Pits before, and this seemed like an opportunity to do so. Normally I don't enter the Slime Pits because corrosion reduces weapon and armour stats like crazy. This time I was lucky to have an almost complete set of artefact armour and several artefact weapons (they're immune to corrosion and destruction). I could also buy an amulet of resist mutation, so I figured I'd give it a shot. I should've taken a hint when I was having trouble with acid blobs in the levels above the Royal Jelly, and get out of there until I found corrosion resistance.

I could've taken my three runes and head for the Vestibule of Hell. If I'd made it, I'm sure Geryon wouldn't have been too hard, and I could've made it into Dis to build up XP. If I'd survived that, I might've made it into the Zot Realm. Hypothetically speaking.

56

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 17, 2009, 08:51:50 PM »

...NOOOO!


306433 Moocow the Skullcrusher (level 21, -6/176 (188) HPs)
             Began as a Minotaur Berserker on Oct 13, 2009.
             Was the Champion of Trog.
             Killed from afar by an acid blob (9 damage)
             ... with a splash of acid
             ... on Level 6 of the Pits of Slime on Oct 17, 2009.
             The game lasted 12:23:57 (84540 turns).

Moocow the Skullcrusher (MiBe)         Turns: 84540, Time: 12:23:58

HP  -6/176 (188) AC 28     Str 37      Exp: 21/571441 (3), need: 17258
MP  15/15        EV  6     Int  6      God: Trog ******
Gold 2857        SH  6     Dex 10      Spells:  0 memorised, 22 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : .   B - +3,+5 spiked flail of Death's Door {god gi
Res.Cold  : + + .   Warding    : .   H - +1 plate mail "Kheokes" {Stlth--}
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .   b - -2 shield of the Untouchables {rC+ Dam+4}
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   (helmet restricted)
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   G - +2 cloak of Conservation {rC+ Str+2}
                                     R - +1 pair of gloves of Guejit {Str+2}
Sust.Abil.: +       Rnd.Telep. : .   (no boots)
Res.Mut.  : +       Ctrl.Telep.: +   p - amulet of resist mutation
Res.Slow  : .       Levitation : .   O - ring of teleport control
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .   j - ring of sustain abilities

@: regenerating (expires), exhausted, extremely resistant to magic,
extremely unstealthy
A: fire resistance 1, sense surroundings 1, horns 2, AC +1, Str +2,
Dex +1
a: Sense Surroundings, Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand,
Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion, Evoke Blink, Evoke Sense
Surroundings, Evoke Teleportation

You were on level 6 of the Pits of Slime.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and saw 64 of its levels.

...

   Skills:
 + Level 16 Fighting
 + Level 7 Axes
 * Level 27 Maces & Flails
 + Level 10 Darts
 + Level 6 Throwing
 + Level 14 Armour
 + Level 4 Dodging
 + Level 13 Shields
 + Level 8 Traps & Doors
 + Level 13 Unarmed Combat
 + Level 1 Spellcasting
 + Level 4 Evocations

...

Grand Total: 2613 creatures vanquished


...And that's the end of Moocow the Minotaur Berserker, L21 Champion of Trog.

He cleared the Lair, the Swamp, the Hive, the Orcish Mines, the Snake Pit, and the Vault. He also cleared the main dungeon up until D:21, the two top levels of the Elven Halls, and all but the bottom level of the Slime Pits. He collected the Decaying Rune from the Swamp, the Serpentine Rune from the Snake Pit, and the Silver Rune form the Vault. At the bottom level of the Slime Pit, he managed to make the Royal Jelly flee from a melee fight, but was eventually taken down by the spit attack of three acid blobs.

Conclusion: Don't try to clear the Slime Pits without corrosion resistance, even if your armour and weapons are all artefacts. And remember, teleport control doesn't work on the bottom level of the Slime Pits...

Moocow would like offer his most sincere condolences to the friends and relatives of Yjib (D:2), Sigmund (D:2), Josephine (Swamp:3), Norris (Swamp:5), Prince Ribbit (D:10), Eustachio (D:11), Urug (D:11), Donald (D:12), Jozef (D:12), Rupert (Snake:3), Nessos (Snake:3), Nergalle (Snake:4), Michael (D:16), Wayne (Vault:7), Duane (Vault:7), and Saint Roka (D:18). He also asked for the Royal Jelly (Slime:6) to be sent a get well soon card.

57

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 16, 2009, 09:27:03 AM »

You stash your stuff somewhere? I ran into trouble (EDIT: Well, not "trouble", but it was a bit frustrating) because I was running out of space in my pack, but I didn't know what to leave behind. Keeping a stash sounds like a good idea, at least for things that you don't usually need immediately, like rings.

Sooner or later you'll run out of carrying capacity, either because you're lugging around too many items or because they're too heavy. It's also frustrating to be near the bottom of a branch and have to leave valuable items behind for other, even more valuable items. So it's a good idea to stash items you're not planning on using soon, but want to keep for later. In earlier versions of Crawl, it was important to keep track of where you left your stuff; in Stone Soup you can use Ctrl-F to find it and autotravel to reach it. The Eucumenical Temple is a good place for stashing items since there are no monsters there that can wander off with them. Lair:2 is a good place because only unintelligent, non-corroding animals are generated there, so no-one's going to steal or destroy your stuff.

You should of done lair.  You were too weak to go so deep in the dungeon.  Poison resist is not that important in lair for a MiBe.  I have cleaned snake with a MiBe without poison resist.  If you had a flaming weapon or a mace you could also of attempted swamp.  Any axe wielder should be carrying a mace or flaming weapon anyway.

You're right, and I probably shouldn't have said poison resistance is needed for the Lair. It can be done without, as long as you're not exploring at 25% health. I've never survived the Swamp or the Snake Pit without it though. I often investigate the upper levels of a branch, but if I'm having trouble clearing them, I'll leave and come back later.

In general I think it's good to set intermediate goals. The early goals are usually the same. Find the Temple first, and pick a deity if you don't have one. Find the Lair, and clear it. Go back up to the Orcish Mines, and clear them. Then take on the Hive and the Swamp, in any order, maybe clearing the upper levels of both to gain experience. Get the Decaying Rune from the Swamp. Clear he Snake Pit, and get the Serpentine Rune. Clear the Slime Pits if you have corrosion resistance.

I usually don't make it that far, but if I do, I'm inexperienced and undecided. Clear the upper levels of the Vault and the Elven Halls. Don't go for the runes just yet. Visit the Hall of Blades if you're strong enough to survive the Abyss for a while. Visit the crypt if you have warding and some means to handle undead. Depending on your resistances, you may even need to start exploring branches of Hell before finally being able to get the runes from the Elven Halls and the Vault. After that, I have nothing to contribute. You can probably dive into the Realm of Zot and go for the Orb, and survive. If you do, don't expect to visit the remaining branches afterwards.

Something strange happened with this char.. On D:4 pretty heavy monsters appeared at the staircase. (Orc Priest with some friends) I managed to fend off and started exploring and I found a weird glowing room with a staircase that looked like a shop, saying "A staircase covered with sand.." I didn't dare to enter and kept clearing out the floor. I returned after levling up twice, and the staircase was gone.. :/ I have seen the Labyrinth before, but then the staircase was named "The Labyrinth". I guess I should've went in.

Occasionally some side levels pop up, and I think their entrances have been made temporary in Stone Soup. They're meant to be high-risk, now-or-never challenges. Labyrinths are mazes guarded by a minotaur with some very good items at exit near the center. If you're carrying enough food, and you can take a beating in melee, it's worth trying. I've visited several Labyrinths and never died there. I've also seen Tombs or Crypts (other than the branch) populated with undead; I haven't explored these since I always lacked the experience I think they require. I've also heard there are bazaars, with lots of shops, where you can go on a shopping spree just once; I've never actually found one.

Have you tried Deep Dwarf Berserker? Berserker with some staffs and the ability to trade off 1mp for recharging a staff/wand! Pretty interesting along with berserker.

I haven't played any of the new races, but I'll give the Deep Dwarf a shot. Not being able to regenerate doesn't sound too appealing, but perhaps with Trog's regeneration it isn't as bad as it sounds.

58

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 15, 2009, 08:43:33 PM »

Christ almighty.

Okay, forget what I said about poison resistance. Enter the Lair and start cleaving skulls, RIGHT NOW! Do get poison resistance before you enter the Swamp or the Snake Pit, though.

[EDIT: Oh noes! I wrote this post when you had just made your +5 +8 super edit. Sorry for your loss, and congratulations on a good run!]

Speaking of the Swamp, I broke my promise to only play Mountain Dwarf Fighters, just this once, and started another Minotaur Berserker.

Moocow swiftly raided the upper levels of the Dungeon, dove into the Lair wearing a gourmand amulet, chopped every single quadruped into bite size chunks, snapped rows and rows of orc necks until nothing but silence remained in the Orcish Mines, bought himself a shiny ring of poison resistance, and headed for the Swamp.

I hate the Swamp. The muck is dreadfully slow to trudge around in, and it makes you fumble half your attacks. Each and every cowardly bastard flees, or dives underwater, as soon as it's in the least bit of trouble. And that's not even the worst thing about the Swamp. It isn't the smell, or the dragons. It isn't the mosquitos, or the insubstantial wisps. It's the swamp worms. They burst from the water, take a 20HP bite, dive underwater just before you can finish them, lurk there until they're back at full health, then re-emerge to take ANOTHER bite, and repeat. There's nothing you can do about it except get lucky enough to take them out with a single 30HP punch.

When Moocow had finally cleared, or at least fully explored, all Swamp levels but the last, he braced himself for the Rune level. Poison resistance, check. Teleport control, check. Tank armour, check. Maces & flails skill 16, check. +4 +6 great mace of pwnage, check. So he entered, carefully moved toward the center of the map, read a magic mapping scroll, and saw... nothing. No circular cave near the center of the map. No roaring dragons, no pissed-off hydras, nothing. But no down stairs, either.

In the opposite corner of the level, however, was a foreboding diagonal cave entrance, filled with ghastly fumes. When Moocow entered the cave, slowed down by the fumes, he was immediately greeted by a triple acidic spit attack of an Oklob plant, and overwhelmed by an army of snake zombies, spectral hydras, and skeletal dragons. I don't know what's become of this place, but it's surely gone downhill since my last visit.

Luckily, Trog granted his numerous requests for berserk rage, regeneration, and assistance. At dangerously low health he teleported out, rested, teleported back in, cleared the cave of its remaining spectres, and lifted the Decaying Rune of Zot from the sickening puddle of muck it had been left to rot in. He is now an L14 Bludgeoner and Rampant Minotaur of Trog, still breathing, and enjoying a good night's sleep near his stash at Lair:2.

59

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 15, 2009, 05:13:35 PM »

Resistance against corruption or Life protection helps against smiting I believe.

I don't think so. Life protection (ring of same name, and amulet of warding) protects against draining (loss of XP). There are draining weapons and spells, and shadows have a draining melee attack. If by corruption you mean mutation, a ring of resist mutation will only prevent your char from gaining mutations ('A' screen). If by corruption you mean stat loss (Str, Int, Dex), a ring of sustain abilities will prevent that. As far as I know, none of these decrease the damage taken from smiting. I don't know if smiting can be resisted at all.

The book might be good, but I've never gotten a Minotaur to read a book I just burn'em all! Keep sacrificing corpses and burn books to get some nice God gifts from Trog. You could use a good weapon.

That's what I meant. It takes a very long time for most melee fighters to finally learn how to read books, so that's practically useless. But you can pick them up, drop one in front of an approaching enemy, and call upon Trog to light the BBQ.

60

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)

« on: October 15, 2009, 01:12:49 PM »

IIRC, smiting is invoked, not cast, so magic resistance doesn't help. Would have to verify that though.

Poison resistance is obtained from a ring of poison resistance. There may also be some (random) artefacts tat provide it. Rings of poison resistance can be found in the upper levels of the main dungeon, or bought from a jewellery shop. In my experience one is generated in most games. You can find them (also those sold in a shop) with Ctrl-F 'poison'.