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Messages - XLambda

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Dwarf fortress
« on: April 22, 2013, 06:00:36 PM »
That said, people should be honest about ripping off Toady's work. Don't pretend you're coming up with something new.

This is pretty rich. This is a forum devoted to a genre that is completely derivative by definition -- indeed, a lot of discussion goes into whether new games are enough like the classics to fit within the genre and therefore merit attention as more than just a throwback to the C64 era. The question here isn't "Is it original?" It's "Is it unoriginal enough?"

That said, by any sane definition Dwarf Fortress is roguelike -- it's fantasy roleplaying, with turn based play if the player wants it in terminal graphics. If your fortress goes to hell, there's no recovering it. Adams has moved the ball so far forward with Dwarf Fortress, people are still in denial about it. Developers are talking about building the successor to ADOM or the next iteration of the zangband legacy. They should be thinking about how to incorporate aspects of Dwarf Fortress into more middle of the road roguelikes and how to improve on what Tarn's accomplished with his game, by, yes, straight up stealing mechanics from his game and chewing on them. There's a lot there to be chewed.

Dwarf Fortress is THE development in roguelikes of the last decade. After twenty five years of talking nethack, there has to be something new in the endeavor of wrecking one's GPA despite sitting alone in front of a computer terminal 15 hours a day or we risk losing the next generation to facebook and sex.

Alright, first let me make something clear. If I say "rip off", I don't mean taking features from DF. I mean outright clones, or semi-clones or what ever you want to call them. If you incorporate some mechanics from DF into your roguelike, that's fine. Heck, I actively appreciate it. Because DF is awesomesauce ffs. If you take DF,  give it nicer graphics and cut out 50% of the advanced features of DF, that is at least partially ripping off IMO. If you take not only the gameplay, but also a large number of features and possibly even the setting, you should at least acknowledge that you are re-making DF in a way.

Now, you may say, what's the difference? Us devs make games that take the gameplay and many features from Rogue, or Angband, right? Yes. That's why we call our games "roguelikes". To acknowledge the history of our genre. If someone went and said "Hey! I'm making a DF-like!" or something like that, wonderful. I love it. No problem for me. Making a DF-like and not acknowledging DF would feel like someone saying "Hey! I'm making a game where you run around a dungeon killing monsters in turn-based combat on a grid! This is completely new and revolutionary! Give me all of your moneys!" (last sentence optional).

I'd also like to debate your point on DF being the first innovation in the Roguelike scene since Nethack. There have been numerous games doing new and exciting things in the scene. For example, take Crawl. It's a roguelike that has become itself a classic, but introduced or at least championed many new features that have been adopted by others since. Another good example would be ToME. It is radically different from most contemporary roguelikes, yet unmistakably roguelike. True, the level of simulation reached in DF is unparalleled so far (except maybe in some WIPs that have since popped up), but to claim that DF is the first "new thing" in the scene since Nethack is far overstating the importance of DF's Adventure mode.

And yes, I said Adventure mode. Because Fortress mode is not a roguelike. kraflab has elaborated on that aspect already, so I won't go into it. I will say, though, that some of us are increasingly annoyed at the increasing misuse of the term "roguelike". There have been many discussions on #rgrd, and many users seem to be of the opinion that "it's hard, and it has permadeath" is not enough to qualify as a roguelike. I'll happily agree with those who postulate a sliding scale of roguelikeness, but there is a point where a given game just isn't really roguelike anymore.

Now, if you want to talk about roguelikelikes, that is something different. I can see Fortress mode being roguelikelike, depending on how you define it.

Off-topic (Locked) / Re: The Obscure Games Thread!
« on: April 20, 2013, 06:04:50 PM »
Hmmm, obscure? It has a bit of a cult following, but you could say it's obscure...

I love Yume Nikki from the bottom of my +5 heart of rogueliking. ;_; I don't know, I find Yume Nikki more sad and beautiful and bizarre than outright disturbing. Yeah, there are plenty of dark and creepy places. I was seriously creeped out by them a lot when I started playing. But it's the dreamworld. Everyone has disturbing dreams once in a while, right? And even in the scary places, there is beauty. I see no need to believe some of the more messed up theories - yes, the dreamworld is probably in some way a reflection of real life, but there's no need to make it more messed up than it already is.
And yes, the ending is just as messed up as the rest of the game. But it's romantic, darnit! I don't know, I just appreciate it in some messed up way. Everyone cries T_T

7DRLs / Re: 2013 7DRLs playable on Mac
« on: March 23, 2013, 09:33:59 PM »
Mine is built using Java 7, so theoretically it'll run. I haven't tested it though and I know some of Java 7 (and 5 and 6 for that matter) don't play nice on the Mac...

Attack The Geth:


Yeah, I've heard that the pre-installed version (some offshoot of Java 6 IIRC) has issues.

Traditional Roguelikes (Turn Based) / Re: 7DRL Success: H.P. Roguelike
« on: March 18, 2013, 10:49:00 PM »
Alright, I've put out what I hope is the last post-Challenge patch. I can't find any more bugs, so I consider this one done. If you do happen to find one, please let me know.

Traditional Roguelikes (Turn Based) / Re: 7DRL Success: H.P. Roguelike
« on: March 18, 2013, 09:20:34 PM »
Can I suggest adding screenshots to this thread and the website?  Thanks  :)

I'll attempt to find some good ones. There's not really a lot to show though - basic ASCII stays basic ASCII. :-[

Traditional Roguelikes (Turn Based) / Re: 7DRL Success: H.P. Roguelike
« on: March 18, 2013, 06:57:56 PM »
Okay, version 1.1 is out. Some bugs were fixed, mostly in the UI. Also, display font and text size can now be changed!

Oh man, this one's epic. Definitely one of the best 7DRLs I've played.
Although I regularly get mah butt kicked (figuring out all of the special moves takes its time), it's lots of fun and aesthetically awesome.

Traditional Roguelikes (Turn Based) / Re: 7DRL Success: H.P. Roguelike
« on: March 18, 2013, 04:50:41 PM »
Is there fullscreen? Kind of a strain on my eyes trying to play in the little window.

Unfortunately not, due to library limitations. But I'll include an option to set the font size in the patch. Should be out in an hour or so.

Btw, in case you hadn't seen it:


Oh man, I was not aware of this! That's hilarious!  ;D

Traditional Roguelikes (Turn Based) / 7DRL Success: H.P. Roguelike
« on: March 18, 2013, 03:55:00 PM »
So, it seems that my 7DRL was successful. It's certainly not perfect, but it is playable and hopefully somewhat enjoyable.

I've always been fascinated by the monster memory of Angband and its family. It seemed like something that on its own could motivate venturing into a dungeon. The central idea behind my project for this year's challenge was to put it in the center of game-play. And because I'm a hopeless fanboy of everything Lovecraftian, I decided to throw some gibbering horrors from beyond all space and time into it as well. Because Tentacles. And so, Tales of the Tenebrous Pit was born. Or, as someone on #rgrd put it, Pokéthulhu.

Behind every author is a story. The story behind my favorite author, HP Lovecraft, involves two insane parents and way too much racism. My 7DRL tells another story - the story of a failed expedition, an ancient place full of horrors and a hopeful author who prefers to explore it instead of running in fear. A man armed only with a gun and a notebook.

Of course, you run into various problems when tackling such a project. Even though large parts of Grandpa Howie's work are supposedly in the public domain, their legal status isn't quite clear. On top of that, the beasties of the Mythos are quite well-known to many folks nowadays, and there is no real motivation for completing the notebook if its content is already known before you start. Thus, I turned to the roguedev's oldest and best friend, and prayed to the mighty god RNG for guidance. The result was a generator that pumped out not just random monsters, but also their brain-blasting descriptions. The horrors dwelling in the Tenebrous Pit are as numerous and varied as the spawn of Shub-Niggurath!

Game is available here. I'll probably do a little patch today or tomorrow, the interface could use a little more love that I forgot about.

EDIT: Have some screenshots. Linked due to cyclopean size.

An ordinary dungeon level
Argh, the horror! :P
A half-completed notebook
A notebook entry.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Dwarf fortress
« on: February 28, 2013, 12:01:47 AM »
That said, people should be honest about ripping off Toady's work. Don't pretend you're coming up with something new.

If you check their websites, both of the games mentioned make it very clear that they're borrowing from DF.
Quote from: Gnomoria
For Gnomoria, the biggest influence has of course been Dwarf Fortress.
Quote from: Towns
...we have taken cues from our favorite games. Diablo, Dungeon Keeper, Evil Genius, and even Theme Hospital are in the mix, although an honorable mention must be made to the absolutely gigantic elephant in the room, Dwarf Fortress.

I didn't mean to imply that they don't! :) I just thought people should be fair with crediting their main source of inspiration. I have to admit I'm not familiar with either.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Dwarf fortress
« on: February 25, 2013, 07:03:53 PM »
There are some low quality clones, like towns and gnomoria, but to be honest they don't even come vaguely close to touching the level of depth and simulation in dwarf fortress.  There really isn't anything on that level, since most people can't spend their entire lives developing a game :P

You can probably say a number of not-so-nice things about how unoriginal Gnomoria is (and be completely right), but it hits the mark in a lot of areas Dwarf Fortress doesn't.  

-Robobob puts out a release every week or two
-He squashes bugs on a regular basis
-He listens to community feedback
-He's willing to work on parts of the game that maybe aren't terribly interesting, like improving the user interface and reducing tedium.

Towns is perhaps best not commented about. 

I think there's a place for DF-likes in the world. DF is a really complex game with an unmentionable UI, not something likely to appeal to more casual gaming folks. And compared to other games it takes really effin' long to get into it.

That said, people should be honest about ripping off Toady's work. Don't pretend you're coming up with something new.

Other Announcements / 7DRLC2013 (Lack of) Ideas Thread
« on: February 02, 2013, 05:05:10 PM »
Still haven't got an idea for this year's 7DRL? Look here! Let us lament our lack of ideas together!

Sources for ideas:
Last year's idea thread
2009's idea thread post with ideas

I had an idea for the last six months or so, but feel increasingly uncomfortable with it. I guess it's because I realized that the only unique thing about it would be the theme. That, and I suck at ideas anyway.

- Never play the game tired. If you must insist in playing it tired, create a new character.

So true. :'(

Other Announcements / Re: 2013 in Roguelikeyness
« on: January 03, 2013, 06:43:51 PM »
Well I hope I can pump out the first beta of my re-born project this year. During the language switch there were some changes made to the concept, and I'm currently up to my eyeballs in coding them in.

Off-topic (Locked) / Re: Happy new year
« on: January 01, 2013, 05:48:00 PM »
Happy new year, everyone! ;D

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