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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: December 05, 2020, 09:07:29 AM »

I was playing and watching on RLG, yeah, although I've really only been playing the Steam version lately. It's honestly just much more convenient for me than playing on RLG. Feature-wise it has more in common with V3, including the way running works (F, direction instead of Ctrl+direction). And also universal identify scrolls, which makes a big difference to me. I do miss the high score list though. It still has one, of course, but it's only local.

I love RLG.

I tried the Steam version and didn't like it.  I think I probably could have adjusted to the movement mechanics between the different options.  But I absolutely despise that inventory lettering changes every freaking time you find something.  I like to memorize so I can easily equip a bow, throw arrows, switch armor, etc. without inspecting the list every time.  Also, I didn't really understand some of the items.  There were two scrolls I read where nothing happened.  Not even a message.  Was bizarre.

I also don't understand some of the functions and items unique to v3.  Like isn't there a something of genocide?  I have no idea how to use that.  I also just feel like I'm cheating when I get a scroll of identify and can identify anything LOL

Just got done playing one of my most interesting runs of all time. I actually got to floor 23 including killing a bunch of super tough enemies with just a +1, +2 mace.  How?  It was all about STR.  I was at +20.  My mace was bashing them, but more importantly, my projectiles were rocking with my STR so high.  I killed a couple Black Unicorns, a couple Medusas, and plenty of pesky trolls and such.  I think I only ended up on experience level 10 or 11, but my STR was so good I could just auto-fight Trolls.  It was a tough wait.. I didn't find a potion of restore strength for a long, long time, but once I found it the run changed.

Of course plenty more had to go right.  I actually let my +0 plate armor degrade because I got a +3 splint mail. Never got waterproofing, but even after some water traps and a bad break with an Aquator I ended up at +10.  Had I found waterproofing I would have had something like a +13 armor! I had two wands of teleport away, one of poly, and one of light.  All came in very handy.  At one point I wandered onto a teleport trap then had to immediately morph a Black Unicorn and Troll. They changed to Yeti and Kestrel - woohoo!

No weapon upgrade, just one weapon enchantment, no good rings (aggravate, sustain STR once it was too late, and see inv).  But tons of projectiles.  Two extra piles of arrows, two collections of shiruken, and a bag o' darts.

Oh!  I also had the rare treasure maze!

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: November 13, 2020, 06:44:20 PM »

Thanks for the reminder on the Steam version.  Can you tell us your thoughts?

Great tip on V3.  I'll have to check that out.  Where are you playing it and watching other people?  RLG?

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: July 21, 2020, 01:22:21 AM »

What is going on when you have enemies on either side of you?  Because it seems like something really, really bad is happening above and beyond just each of them getting a hit on you.

If you want me to be more descriptive, I'm not sure I can.  But I've noticed taking severe damage in these situations and even when sandwiched by two enemies who shouldn't be a threat I often take a beating.

That is weird.

I had a look into the code and found nothing that suggested such thing would happen. Which version is showing such behavior to you?

Maybe it's my imagination, then.  And sometimes it's hard for me to track exactly what's going on because I always use the F key rather than directional to attack.  But, man, avoiding sandwiches is almost necessary to have a good run.

I play v5 on rlgallery.org

Sorry for the delay in responding. I swear I checked the thread a couple weeks ago, but I must not have.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: June 05, 2020, 07:26:31 PM »

What is going on when you have enemies on either side of you?  Because it seems like something really, really bad is happening above and beyond just each of them getting a hit on you.

If you want me to be more descriptive, I'm not sure I can.  But I've noticed taking severe damage in these situations and even when sandwiched by two enemies who shouldn't be a threat I often take a beating.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: May 11, 2020, 11:53:50 PM »

Rare, but I've had it a few times. There are a few things working in favor of balance to the idea that makes it not so ideal...

If you're doing it around Rattlesnakes or Aquators you are eventually going to run into a STR issue or ruin all your armor.  If you're that early in the run, then it will take an eternity to get enough experience. If you do it any later, then eventually some bad rolls will get you.  Now if you combine it with a scroll of scare monster and are using a version that allows you to move back onto the scroll with the m-command, then it might have more legs.  But even that can be tricky - you don't want to get sandwiched drawing enemies out of crooked hallways into the room you are in... hard to explain.

Hunger rarely ever hurts me.  The cave ensures that you'll find food every third floor at the very least (or technically fourth?). The only time I really get screwed is if it's been three floors and then I fall through a trapdoor.  Then the "clock" starts over again and it's a race to find food.  But I've had FAR more runs where I'm overloaded with food than I've ever been concerned about my hunger.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: March 24, 2020, 01:59:16 AM »

The main reason I'm trying to find a good weapon fast is the inventory... It gets full so quickly! I started drinking potions as soon as I find them, but that's not enough, very soon I have to read some scrolls, too. And it's such a waste to read an enchant weapon scroll on a mace, they're too scarce in the game. With a 0,0 sword you won't connect to enemies anyway if you've wasted everything on a mace...

My problem so far isn't items, I just don't make it to the levels beyond 17 most of the time. I usually die from being sandwiched in between a troll and someone else. Most wands and scrolls are useless when you're sandwiched. Basically I start backing away to regenerate health and end up sandwiched. That's why I keep thinking that I need a better sword: if I stopped missing so many hits I could've killed a lot of those trolls without the need to retreat so far back.

Yesterday I found a 2H sword and two enchant weapon scrolls, and sure enough they enchanted it to 0,+2. That's cool, but not helpful for connecting hits.

Yeah, super tough to stay alive when your two-handed sword is +0, +x

Honestly there's not much you can do about rattlesnakes if it's a bad run.  It's not uncommon for their strength sapping to end a run for me. The main thing I keep in mind is that the magic number is five or something like that. You are okay until it falls below that number.  So save those common potions of restore strength until you absolutely need them or until you can boost your overall STR with potions of gain strength.

There is a ring of sustain strength and if you don't want to wear it all the time you can actually put it on while standing next to a rattlesnake and it immediately takes effect.  Same goes for rings of sustain armor while standing next to an Aquator.

Congrats on getting so deep in the cave!

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: March 18, 2020, 07:21:41 PM »

Right.  It's virtually impossible with the base mace.  I've made it deep before, but you're not beating up tough monsters with that weapon without some tricks up your sleeve. Slow monster or polymorph being two of the biggies.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: March 17, 2020, 04:30:05 PM »

I watched two of your plays live, too. And the one on YT, apparently it's the only one with commentary? The commentary made it very entertaining to watch.

And I must say that the UNIX version seems more difficult than the DOS 1.48 (by Epyx) I used to play before! At least at early levels. I've never once died from hypothermia in the DOS version, it was probably entirely removed from the game, as I've never seen it at all. There was only one scroll of identify, not separate ones. I don't know what else, but it felt easier overall, I could make it to levels 9-11 pretty reliably almost every time in the DOS version.

It's a shame that ctrl+numeric keyboard doesn't work in v5, using ctrl+hjkl\yubn is difficult as far as moving diagonally is concerned.

EDIT: There were no mazes at early levels in the DOS version, too. I think I've only seen those at levels beyond ~15-16.

I would also reconsider how you use arrows and pick up your arrows that missed.  When you get to a higher STR like 18 or even a full 16 (with some xp gains), arrows really pack a punch.  If you have projectiles late in the cave and you have high levels and high STR, they can work wonders even helping defeat the most difficult of monsters.  I mostly use my default arrows to defeat a few early enemies for levels, then save the rest for stationary opponents like Leprechauns and Nymphs.  Any projectiles I find along the way are bonus for knocking enemy HP down before I hit them with my weapon.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: March 17, 2020, 04:25:52 PM »

I watched two of your plays live, too. And the one on YT, apparently it's the only one with commentary? The commentary made it very entertaining to watch.

And I must say that the UNIX version seems more difficult than the DOS 1.48 (by Epyx) I used to play before! At least at early levels. I've never once died from hypothermia in the DOS version, it was probably entirely removed from the game, as I've never seen it at all. There was only one scroll of identify, not separate ones. I don't know what else, but it felt easier overall, I could make it to levels 9-11 pretty reliably almost every time in the DOS version.

It's a shame that ctrl+numeric keyboard doesn't work in v5, using ctrl+hjkl\yubn is difficult as far as moving diagonally is concerned.

EDIT: There were no mazes at early levels in the DOS version, too. I think I've only seen those at levels beyond ~15-16.

Watching you now.  You were in a lit room with an Aquator and he ruined your armor.  What you can do with Aquators is simply remove your armor.  Then they cannot damage it.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: March 16, 2020, 08:25:54 PM »

Hello, I want to say that it's a great topic and I'm in the process of reading, whilst trying to avoid spoilers simultaneously, as I haven't yet been beyond lvl17. It's the spirit of discovery, gotta see those monsters myself first! I don't know what got into me, but I got addicted to Rogue and really want to beat it one day.

And I have a question:

It's embarrassing, but I don't get how to use wands on my own self. Once I had a wand of teleport away. But all wands asks for a direction, and I think I pointed it to a monster that was attacking me?.. I don't quite remember, but I died twice because I couldn't figure out how to use wands on myself and did something that the game considered stupid.

P.S. rlgallery is an amazing site, especially the recordings saved on it that can be analyzed! I stay away from them for now, because I want to fumble on my own for a while.

Hi Celes!  I watched one of your runs today.  Keep at it!

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: February 27, 2020, 02:40:28 PM »

Some IRC developer has commented me that there is a patch for it, which was submitted to the person running rlgallery, but I don't know whether it has been made available anywhere.

The question is do you want it patched?  I guess you could have it as a separate option. Now that we have a winner or two it's hard to go back and change the challenge.

Speaking of the other winner, I noticed it's fames who also commented on this thread way back at the beginning that he resets the game if he doesn't get a two-handed sword in the first room. elwin mentioned that he can't do that on rlgallery, but it would be interesting to go into fames' ttyrec files and see if he somehow manipped this.

But I get it. A two-handed sword is essentially what you must have to win. Winning may not have been the point in 1980, but it's pretty much been the point ever since then for any game.

On that note, I just had a fascinating run with base mace and no potions of strength.  First, I found a +3 chain mail. Then came a tidal wave of enchants for both armor and weapon plus waterproofing for the armor.  I was at +13 armor most of the run. My mace was +3, +3 by the end, I believe.  I had some poly, three monster hold scrolls, stealth, and regen.

But you could feel that I needed to find the stairs and FAST as soon as I hit 17.  For the most part I had that luck. But all it took was one floor where I had to search the entire floor before finding the stairs and all my toys were used up.  After a bit more luck I was on 24 (pretty sure) and again had trouble finding the stairs. I was trying to go toe-to-toe with a Jabberwock with some light kiting, when the next thing I knew I was surrounded by THREE of them.  I had an unidentified scroll and I researched what it could be. AHA!  TELEPORTATION!  So I read it and was wrong. It was identify ring/staff/wand. I assumed I had already found that, but apparently I had use ID'd everything to that point. I was dead and nowhere near the gold count for the leaderboard.

The part that really stumped me was when I had a +3, +2 mace and found a long sword. Assuming the long sword was +0, +0, and knowing I had one weapons enchant, what should I have gone with?  I went with the mace.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: February 26, 2020, 08:47:42 PM »

More bugs...

This one is really funny and quite unfortunate, present in v5, v4, and also Epyx 1.48:

    /*
     * If the creature being attacked is not running (alseep or held)
     * then the attacker gets a plus four bonus to hit.
     */
    if (!on(*thdef, ISRUN))
   hplus += 4;

File "fight.c", function roll_em(). This is supposed to give the player bonus chance to hit sleeping (held) monsters, and monsters to get this bonus when player is faint or frozen/paralyzed. The funny part is that it actually gives monsters this bonus all the time, while player never gets it. Ha-ha! As if the game was not intended to be hard enough these bugs make it still much harder and super-very unfair. And that Squeeealer managed to beat it with all these bugs and against all odds, I have to say again it's some kind of miracle.

Anyhow, there are two problems. First, ISRUN flag for the player is not handled properly somewhere else in the code so effectively the player is always "fainted" and thus the monsters always get this to-hit bonus. Second, in function fight(), there is a call to function runto(), which wakes up monsters, before the dice roll, so by the time it is decided whether to give the player to-hit bonus for sleeping/held monsters they are already up and running and thus the player never gets it.

Okay, here it is.  And originally reported here by Xerxes way back there...

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: February 26, 2020, 08:32:39 PM »

So far, the most noticeable diference is that +4 bonus to hit. It really hurts the chances of the player, but also makes some fights more interesting...

Having specific scrolls of identify does not hurt nearly as much as that bonus.

So what is the +4 bonus?  Is that the bonus you get for hitting a sleeping enemy (in v3)?

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: February 19, 2020, 09:08:26 PM »

Whoa, I missed all this action from a month ago...  welcome guys!

The BIGGEST gameplay difference to me is the speed.  With v5 you can knock out a game SUPER FAST using the Ctrl+directionals.  I find versions that don't offer this to be mind-numbing.  Although some might say the biggest difference is the item specific scrolls of identify as opposed to v3 which I think has generic scrolls of identify.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: September 11, 2019, 07:59:59 PM »

Welcome!  I've been playing for years now on rlgallery and have only beaten it once.  fames just recently joined and has already beaten it!  You can find a couple posts from him earlier in this thread.  I hope you check out this thread in its entirety - lots of good stuff!