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Messages - kraflab

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Traditional Roguelikes (Turn-based) / Re: Frozen Depths: cool! :-)
« on: April 09, 2013, 11:26:16 AM »
Frozen Depths homepage is down :(

Anyone knows what happened?

It is up for me right now at least.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Any Non-perma death Rlikes?
« on: April 09, 2013, 11:07:06 AM »
Here is my concern, and the reason why I like to discuss this: I don't want a future where we come on here and find borderlands 3 threads in the major roguelikes board :P

A better idea is to come up with a scoring system based on criteria like this.  Otherwise we're really just arguing about our own personal definitions of the term and the discussion goes nowhere.

I think we need to make a community graph that has one axis as roguelike <-> puzzle and another axis as roguelike <-> rpg and then evaluate games on their position on said graph.  Then maybe angband is a (0,0) and someone can say "New (5,1) roguelike" and people would know that it is a bit more puzzly :P

Traditional Roguelikes (Turn-based) / Re: Multiplayer online roguelike
« on: April 09, 2013, 11:05:38 AM »
Cheeky winks aside, it's good to have clarity. Otherwise, you're reduced to a discussion of how far you can deviate from the idioms of a game implemented in the late 70s by a couple of graduate students in their spare time and still have a product of such moral purity as to be obviously superior to the mass market drivel peddled by Blizzard and the so-called indie sellouts trying to hock their wares on Steam.

How do you know you're more hardcore than people who play games with graphics, particularly if you like to use tiles with your "roguelikes"? You need permadeath and rigid turn-based play, at least. You may have been the only kid on the block who thought the problem with Megaman was that you got more than one life, but at least now with the ascii version available, you have the benefit of knowing in retrospect that you were right.

That's just not it at all.  You completely miss the point.  The game is either a roguelike or not, it's not a question of how hardcore it is.  You can't call farmville a roguelike just because you want to.  It's a question of reality.  And rogue is not at all the measure of roguelikeness (it's a misnomer!), so you should actually learn what this genre is i think :P

Traditional Roguelikes (Turn-based) / Re: Multiplayer online roguelike
« on: April 08, 2013, 11:31:27 PM »
But is it a roguelike? ;)

We have a bad habit of letting all discussion fall into this question.

I think we need a custom emote for that :P

Temple of the Roguelike / Re: Spammers...
« on: April 08, 2013, 11:28:52 PM »
I think Slash should develop a roguelike called adminRL as a client for getter to delete spambots from.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Any Non-perma death Rlikes?
« on: April 08, 2013, 11:25:41 PM »
krice: "roguelikes are all about permadeath"

Uh huh. You know, if you play your "roguelikes" on a local system, you never really have permadeath. You can bail on the concept at any time if you find yourself too attached to your character to let it go.

Maybe you play all your games on a server where you have no privileged access, for example the main crawl server, but somehow I doubt it. If I'm right, you shouldn't be beating your chest about your purity of roguelike spirit. If you're not playing it on a university network dumb terminal or something damn similar, you're just another sentimental poseur, imo.

But please, tell us more about what roguelikes are all about. I understand you like tiles...

Why are people so afraid of genres?  Genres are all about classification.  If someone hands me a new game and says "check out my roguelike!" and it is an rpg, I'm going to be pretty disappointed.  You shouldn't call a red apple green because it will give people the wrong expectations.  Krice may be a bit crazy, but he preaches the truth here.  Take a roguelike and remove permadeath and you do indeed have a turn-based rpg.  If people were getting boxed in by genre classifications then I would say it is a dangerous thing, but even a very shallow glance at the current state of roguelike development shows that this is not even remotely the case.  Things are blooming and expanding in all directions.

P.S. Calling terminals dumb makes you look pretty asinine.  This forum is heavy in computer scientists you know ;)

Traditional Roguelikes (Turn-based) / Re: Multiplayer online roguelike
« on: April 08, 2013, 11:05:35 PM »

People here talk about "the definition of roguelike" that includes things like turn based gameplay and permadeath that are really peripheral to what rogue actually was: a terminal-based graphical Dungeons and Dragons (or similar RPG system) simulator. Content generated by random numbers is right there in the D&D manual, rogue just automated it and took it further. Turn-based play is just one interpretation of the D&D system that breaks down even in real pencil and paper play when characters are not in close proximity. And as I say above, the turn-based concept has evolved quite a bit in the last thirty years. Even the single player aspect is more a byproduct of the technology available in the late 70s than anything else.

People should be more willing to get creative about new mechanics and real time is a good one that could work.

Is this a troll post?  Turn-based and permadeath are not peripheral to rogue, they are practically essential.  There is a reason that we have roguelikes and rpgs and the two are distinct.  When you take a roguelike and make it "real time" you aren't getting creative, you're just making an action rpg/platformer/etc instead of a roguelike...

Traditional Roguelikes (Turn-based) / Re: Multiplayer online roguelike
« on: April 08, 2013, 05:52:55 AM »
@mp, I've never played tomenet, but a weird thing just happened; I was away from my computer and thought, "this game I'm working on might be better as a multiplayer RL'. Then I opened up Roguetemple and read your excellent post/rant.

So my question is, what else would make a good multiplayer RL?

This topic has been discussed at some length.  Here for example:

The answer of course is nothing.

Programming / Re: Graph Grammar and Voronoi based Dungeon Generation
« on: April 04, 2013, 08:27:05 AM »

Programming / Re: pedantic object oriented question
« on: March 31, 2013, 04:19:13 AM »
I don't really buy into the concept anymore that anything in programming is better or worse than anything else. If it works, and it works well, and it isn't slow, then it's good. I'm sure everyone else disagrees with that, but it works well for me. The difference between theory and practice with programming is that practice is all about implementing something that works as quickly as possible (or in as small an amount of time as possible). It's much more important that something is implemented and works than that it is implemented "perfectly" or "correctly". The user doesn't know the difference between the two. All the user sees is whether or not something is implemented at all.

I'm not disagreeing, but of course a sloppy yet fast implementation today can easily slow you down later on ;)

Programming / Re: info files
« on: March 28, 2013, 12:16:22 AM »
I just use plain text and write my own parsing when it needs doing.  Somewhat an extension to this is using external scripts to carry out certain operations, opening up the mod-space a little bit.  I hear good things about Lua.

Challenges / Re: 7DRL: after-challenge upgrades?
« on: March 25, 2013, 11:35:59 PM »
Various 7drl's go on to see long-term development.  In terms of the spirit of the competition as you put it, I agree that it takes away from the idea of a self-contained experiment made in 7 days.  In terms of having more and better roguelikes, I think it's great ;)

I'm definitely against people that go in with the intention of making a big game and just calling whatever is done after a week their 7drl.  It shouldn't be just a subset of the real game.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Any Non-perma death Rlikes?
« on: March 25, 2013, 04:08:44 AM »
Its kind of lame for me because I really liked getting into the game demo "The Pit", but the one thing keeping me from buying it is the thing that will likely make it impossible to complete the game on easy. Its too bad because Dredmor allows you to play it however you want. Its a shame that one thing can't be made as an option. I used to play Doom the Rl but it got boring to play back and forth because whats the point of playing a game where my character will expire at any time.

Your character is going to expire at the end of every game.  It's not about the destination.  Of course, if you also don't like the journey...

Anyway, I double DGrey's ToME4 nomination.  The game is much more rpg-like than most roguelikes, and quality-wise it is worth a donation for infinite lives if that is the road you want to take.

Temple of the Roguelike / Re: Moving away from BlueHost
« on: March 21, 2013, 10:48:41 PM »
Why every other message is in grey font? Really hate that.

I strongly agree

Off-topic (Locked) / Re: Linux and Python
« on: March 14, 2013, 09:55:11 PM »
I share your disdain for ubuntu but have recently fallen in love with fedora.  As for python I have no advice (except to use another language ;))

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