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Messages - Vanguard

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Most Japanese Rogue-inspired games are unfortunately roguelites with unlockables and persistent items and such. I think Shiren the Wanderer is the best one, and it's easily on par with the best western roguelikes as long as you don't use the item warehouse.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 11, 2016, 12:08:53 AM »
Spent some time reveling in my victory. Ahh, glory days... here's a fight summary of the tough floors.

Dang, that's intense.  How strong was your guy?

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 07, 2016, 08:14:55 PM »
Congratulations. I'd say it counts, as far as v3 goes, but of course it doesn't compare to Squeeealer's miraculous victory in v5.

Thanks.  And yeah, clearly any win that abuses permahaste is far less impressive than one that doesn't.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 07, 2016, 07:42:29 AM »
Your point seems contradictory. You first say leave the bugs, but then you also say you will not play it.

It is true, Rogue v5 without ISRUN bug isn't Rogue v5 any more. But neither was Rogue v3 anymore when it became Rogue v4.
So how about we fix v5 bugs and call it v6, then this v6 could be the reference point for everyone and the most played version in the next 20 years. Doesn't that make more sense than sticking with bugs or rolling back to some old version?

Anything that presents itself as Rogue v5 should keep whatever bugs were present in Rogue v5.  For your new variant you should, of course, fix the ISRUN bug.  It will be a better game without it.  But as I said before, I think the only reason to play Rogue is for its historical value.  Now there are dozens of excellent roguelikes that blow the original away.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 07, 2016, 07:33:26 AM »
I found out that there's a way to get permanent haste in v3.  I assume it's a bug.  It's probably something similar to the ISRUN situation.  Don't know if it works in other versions.  And with that said...

I wouldn't blame someone if they didn't consider this a legitimate win, but it's good enough for me.  I don't want to play any more Rogue.

Permahaste aside, I had extremely good luck in that run.  I found the only two handed sword I've ever seen in v3 and the only scroll of genocide I've seen in any version.  I used it on umber hulks, of course.  I also had really nice armor that was at one point enchanted all the way to AC -1 (the equivalent of AC 11 in v5). 

I had beaten a xorn in a fight before I was able to trigger permanent haste (I had triggered it in one prior game), and I considered not doing it because that character might have been strong enough to win without it, but in the end I decided to play it safe.

I don't know if I'd recommend playing v3 for a lower difficulty.  The absence of the ISRUN bug makes a huge difference, but v3 doesn't have some of the useful items in later versions, and umber hulks/medusas are even more hardcore than they are in v4 and v5.  Two handed swords seem much more rare as well.  Most importantly, it's just not as fun or polished as later versions.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 07, 2016, 04:06:42 AM »
That has nothing to do with my point, but v5 was made by the original authors.  It's the final release of the the original Unix version of Rogue.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 06, 2016, 06:32:18 PM »
It's clearly a bug rather than an intended feature, but it's still part of the game people have been playing for 30 years.  Rogue v5 without the ISRUN bug isn't Rogue v5 anymore.  It might be a better game than Rogue v5 but it's not the same game people have been playing for decades and beating it isn't the same achievement.

As for me, I'm going to chicken out and play v3 instead.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 06, 2016, 05:04:49 AM »
Alright I just did some testing that seems to confirm that the bug is present in v4 but not v3 on Elwin's site.

I let level 1 enemies attack a fresh character 150 times in v3 and 52 of them hit, so that's 34.667%.  Next I took 156 attacks from level 1 enemies as fresh character in v4 and 84 of them hit, which is 53.846%.  A +4 bonus to hit is 20%, so that's exactly what I'd expect to see.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 06, 2016, 04:28:41 AM »
More bugs...

This one is really funny and quite unfortunate, present in v5, v4, and also Epyx 1.48

Looks like someone else noticed the same thing in another thread a few years ago.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 06, 2016, 03:07:01 AM »
What is the original, Epyx version for DOS? Then perhaps you also want different ID scrolls be merged into one, to have ability to throw potions and affect monsters, to have vorpal enchant, ice monsters to shoot ice blasts? Also, I doubt very much "the original" has this bug. I'm certain Mac and Atari ST originals don't.

Unfortunately, judging by the lack of features and presence of bugs, it seems v4, v5 and whole that branch was split from the original source before the game was actually complete or properly tested. Anyway, what v4 are you talking about, where did you get it?

The Unix version was the original, but that's not what I'm talking about.  If I play Rogue v4 I want it to be the same v4 as everyone else has been playing throughout the years.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 05, 2016, 10:48:24 PM »
I just got an early wand of cold in v4 and used it to clear out a treasure room.  It hit every single time, so I think either they got nerfed in v5 (whether intentionally or unintentionally), or they have a base level of accuracy that doesn't improve as the player grows, so they're only reliable in the early game.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 05, 2016, 06:37:56 PM »
@LazyCat: I think you're right about the elemental staves.  I'm going to run it through the debugger to make sure, but the fix should be online soon.  Thanks for reporting this.

I know for sure I've hit with elemental staves in v4, and I'm pretty sure I've gotten them to hit in v5.  If there is a bug, and it was present in the original, I'd like to have the option to still play the game with its original balance.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 04, 2016, 07:41:37 PM »
If you're not interested, it's fine, but just for the record, there are tons of action games that use small amounts of RNG in things like enemy AI to make them fairly memorization-proof, and there are also non-random action games that have a sort of butterfly effect, where extremely minor differences in player input lead to very different outcomes, so that even world record-level players need to improvise.  The megaman series is generally very susceptible to memorization though.

Anyway, good luck with Brogue.  Since you can beat Rogue, you'll definitely be able to handle it.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 03, 2016, 10:54:56 PM »
1CC stands for 1 credit clear.  It's where you play an arcade or arcade-style game, and you try to beat it without using any continues.  The levels of depth and challenge you can find in some of them are even higher than roguelikes, and a lot of them feature in-depth scoring systems if you want to play competitively.  In my opinion it's the pinnacle of single-player gaming.

Brogue is one of the more hardcore roguelikes.  It's an excellent game, much deeper and more fair than Rogue, but it's also gonna be really rough if you're not familiar with the genre.

I've been playing roguelikes for more than 20 years now, and despite my repeated failures in Rogue, I'm pretty good at them.  If you want I can write up descriptions of different roguelikes to try to find some that appeal to you.  I'd also be willing to throw together some guides if you want help getting started in anything.

Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« on: August 02, 2016, 08:14:39 PM »
You hear maniacal laughter in the distance
The medusa hit you
You die


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