Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Announcements => Traditional Roguelikes (Turn Based) => Topic started by: LazyCat on February 01, 2014, 09:55:44 PM
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174MOD:
Brogue-AUDIO_174Afinal (23. May, 2015)
https://sourceforge.net/projects/brogueaudio/files/Brogue-AUDIO_174Afinal.zip
- music and sound effects support
- improved light and shadows visibility
- no gameplay changes, compatible with vanilla Brogue
- new sounds, more polish and volume balancing
- Linux build bundled
Linux users:
copy/move "audio" and "fonts" folders to "bin" folder where brogue-AUDIO binary is located.
173MOD:
Brogue-AUDIO_v9x (18. March, 2014)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/brogueaudio/files/Brogue-AUDIO_v9x.zip
(Also contains classic Brogue 1.7.3 + audio only, no gameplay changes.)
- modified stealth system, added sneaking ability
- order allies to wait by swapping places twice in a row
- reflect magic bolts onto yourself from "mirror statues"
- darkness potion is not transparent, use as "smoke screen"
- staff of tunnelling pushes monsters away and knocks them down
- stone pedestals, give two - get one...
- improved lit and dark areas visibility
- music and sound effects support
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Great but how do you disable the music? I actually really like the music - it's far better than some of the tracks on the recent ADOM update with NotEYE (beautiful sentimental music but completely out of place in a dungeon) but I like to listen to podcasts and other spoken audio while playing roguelikes so all I want is the sound effects.
Cheers.
-RiC
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To disable background music go to "audio" folder and delete or rename bkg_level1.wav and bkg_level2.wav. To disable battle music as well delete or rename bkg_battle.wav. By the way, here is the latest version:
Brogue-1.7.3_audio-v8 (10. February, 2014)
https://www.mediafire.com/?um4o8pdx79sfadx
...with some more visual improvements and lighting animation in real time, like this:
(https://imageshack.com/a/img822/4406/qr.gif)
...plus few gameplay changes and additions...
Strange seed
- don't eat it, throw it
Darkness potion
- supernatural darkness is not transparent
Staff of tunnelling
- it doesn't go harmlessly through monsters
Scroll of shattering
- monsters can get embedded in the green crystal
Stone pedestals
- give two, get one...
Wands recharging and enchanting
- just like stuffs, only wands don't recharge by themselves
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Thanks, I'm playing now with just the sounds and it's great, I especially love the ambience for the different terrains. I switched in a soft sonar ping in place of the Metal Gear alert sound, it's classic but it grated on me quickly as it's too, well, alarming. What impressed me more was the lighting; the areas feel far more alive and the level of darkness is nicely tangible with the brightly lit areas glowing celestially!
I love it, it's just what was missing from Brogue for me. For such a visually expressive game it always felt strangely silent and not quite fully realised - this is a real improvement.
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Cheers. So yeah, you can disable or replace any sound just like that. Those sounds are really meant to be a template, they have low sampling rate to decrease the size, meant to be replaced eventually, but they are good enough for me. Can you hear any noise or have you noticed anything like that regarding sound quality? Have you tried it with headphones?
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Yeah I did switch in a few more, well a lot more actually - I couldn't resists adding in some classic Zelda sounds like the 'damage take' sound for when you bump into walls, the rupee sound for collecting gold and about half a dozen others; the problem is I'm spending more time fiddling around with new sound effects than actually playing. Incidentally, is one of the sounds the same as the astronaut enemies from Dredmor? I'm trying to place it and that's what I keep hearing.
I can't give any feedback on the quality of the sound as I play it through my laptops on board speakers so I can listen to podcasts etc. through my hi-fi speakers, naturally the laptop speakers are really boxy and...lo-fi (which is why I love them for retro gaming - sounds perfect) so any imperfections are imperceptible. If I play it through headphones at any point and notice anything I'll let you know though.
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Maybe you can zip it up and upload your 'audio' folder once you are done re-mixing.
I checked my audio files on another computer with headphones, it's terrible actually. So terrible I don't understand how I haven't noticed it before. Therefore I resampled most of the sounds to better quality, and the difference is huge, when listening with proper speakers or headphones anyway.
The most interesting addition for the next build game-wise is probably the ability to order allies to wait. When you swap places with an ally twice in a row they will stay waiting there until you move over them again or unless they get attacked or start loosing health for whatever reason, in which case they go back to their normal suicidal behaviour.
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I'd gladly upload my sound set but don't know where to upload it to as I don't have an account with any personal upload/download sites.; if you want to give me an e-mail address then I'll send it across to you and you can share it from there. I found the original thread on the Brogue site and find the whole thing very interesting but see that things have been quiet on there for a few weeks but maybe people are just waiting for the next bit of progress.
Is there a way multiple sounds could be assigned to the same action? I ask as a formality really as I can see that there are about five 'scroll read' sounds (God I hated those sounds!); I'm wanting to add multiple footstep sounds so it doesn't sound so unnaturally monotonous, I'm currently using the sounds from Zelda: Ocarina of Time and they have at least three different possible sounds for every type of terrain.
That wait command sounds very tasty, Lord knows the allies are fantastic at getting themselves killed so it'd be nice to prevent that once in a while. Is this something you personally are modifying or is this going to be the developer's next release?
Cheers.
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I'd gladly upload my sound set but don't know where to upload it to as I don't have an account with any personal upload/download sites.; if you want to give me an e-mail address then I'll send it across to you and you can share it from there. I found the original thread on the Brogue site and find the whole thing very interesting but see that things have been quiet on there for a few weeks but maybe people are just waiting for the next bit of progress.
You can upload it here without even needing account:
http://sharesend.com/
https://www.sendspace.com/
That forum, like this one, is generally quiet, with mostly zero users online. I guess people are just not into roguelikes.
Is there a way multiple sounds could be assigned to the same action? I ask as a formality really as I can see that there are about five 'scroll read' sounds (God I hated those sounds!); I'm wanting to add multiple footstep sounds so it doesn't sound so unnaturally monotonous, I'm currently using the sounds from Zelda: Ocarina of Time and they have at least three different possible sounds for every type of terrain.
That's what background music is for, so you barely even hear any footsteps. If you disable background music and all you hear are the footsteps all the time, then I'm afraid it just ought to sound monotonous. Using several different sounds for the same terrain type could probably help, but it seems too much work for a such subtle effect.
That wait command sounds very tasty, Lord knows the allies are fantastic at getting themselves killed so it'd be nice to prevent that once in a while. Is this something you personally are modifying or is this going to be the developer's next release?
This is what I think how next official Brogue release should be. It is for people to try out and for the original author to decide if he will take anything to include in his official build.
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You can upload it here without even needing account:
http://sharesend.com/
https://www.sendspace.com/
I think that dropbox is better option. With this type of histing-services (sendspace, rapidshare, zippyshare, *share, *space) files smetimes disappear. The files in your Dropbox will be as long as you keep them in the folder "dropbox" on your disk.
http://www.dropbox.com
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Files inevitably disappear from such sites, especially when they're not exceptionally popular over a long period of time. When github zip file hosting stopped working I hosted a version of Mutant Aristocrats! on Mediafire. It disappeared months ago. Dropbox is definitely preferable, though it's unclear if they have bandwidth limits for accounts or individual files. Dropbox also allows you to update hosted files without updating links.
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Yeah, I would get it from there and put it in my Mediafire folder. I never had any problems with my free Mediafire account, for three or more years now. On a related note, I was very disappointed to see Imageshack is not free any more, at all.
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After few weeks of testing and polishing release v9 is out, first post updated with the download link. Here are some details...
* Stealth and sneaking
When you wait your stealth range is halved, as usual. But now if you keep waiting further your stealth decrease one more point. And more importantly, the first step after waiting does not go back to double the radius, only increases yours stealth by one point. Effectively this means if you repeat pause-step-pause-step-pause-step... your stealth range will stay lower than if you just keep walking, and that's how you sneak.
* Reflected magic
Haste, empowerment, invisibility, healing, protection, teleportation, and even the magic of plenty you can now use on yourself, regularly. You can reflect a magic bolt of marble statues (now called mirror statues), which will deflect the bolt right back at you every time. You can also use crystal formations, and you can try to reflect bolts of golems, mirrored totems and reflective monsters, but that might not reflect the bolt back at you, or worse, it could make that golem invisible instead, but sometimes, when there are no mirror statues around, it's worth the risk. This little change brings many new possibilities, and together with wands being more worth enchanting you now have attractive options to put enchants in some of those wands/staffs you would never enchant before. I actually reached 40th floor for the first time thanks to two wands of invisibility and charm of recharging. Sure, all these new possibilities make the game easier, but not much, not as much as they make it more interesting. I'd like to hear what people can do with this - what new builds, what new tactics and new strategies are now available.
* Boss battle
New enemy appears on the way up with the amulet, or going below 35th floor. No spoilers now. I am looking for volunteers to get the amulet and try to bring it out of the dungeon for a feedback on this boss battle - whether is it too hard, too easy, could it be made better, or whatever. Have fun.
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I managed to clear this on my first try with a bunch of lucky drops and the most insanely overpowered Brogue character (http://i.imgur.com/OCR7mZ6.png) I've ever had.
I like being able to use wands and staves on myself. The extra strength from wands of empowerment makes enchanted broadswords and armor less of a necessity.
I found an enchanted suit of plate armor early on, so I didn't try the new stealth mechanics. They sound good though.
I'll send you a pm with my thoughts on the last boss.
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Nice, look at all those staffs. Extra generous seed. Did you get to make use of tunneling staff to push monsters into some hazard or knock them off balance for a free swing with the broadsword? Do you think using empowerment on yourself for strength gives you more advantage than using it on allies? Too much strength?
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Yeah I really like the new tunneling staff. It's fun to push monsters into chasms and lava pits.
Getting strength from wands of empowerment is too obvious and easy. Empowering minions is probably still the stronger effect, but to really make that work you've got to carry all your wands around until you find a good minion and then burn a bunch of scrolls of enchantment. The strength thing is less effort and works with any build. I like that you've added a use for them in non-minion builds but right now it doesn't involve any interesting decisions. You just get a bunch of extra strength.
What if self-empowerment was a temporary thing instead? Like you got a long lasting haste and shield effect from it or something like that?
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Okay that's my sound set finished. With maybe one or two exceptions, that's every sound changed. I love this set, it puts satisfying retro Zelda sound effects over atmospheric real sounds and makes the game feel far more alive.
dropbox.com/s/iexljtxpu280a7f/BrogueRiC.rar
(note that this doesn't include the music tracks)
Most of the sounds are from various Zelda games, the environment sounds are from various sources - mostly high(er) quality nature recordings found on YouTube, a few of them are far longer than they need to be but the whole thing uncompressed is about 90mb which probably doesn't matter much these days but they could be clipped down if necessary. It's a 40mb rar file so lean by 2014 standards (the inventory management subgame of 90s computing isn't something I miss).
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As I'm currently trying to gain slow but well earned progress at Brogue (I think level 11 is my personal best), I won't be trying out anything that will make it any easier right now but I'm really interested in your progress and experimentation though so I'll watch this space.
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Okay that's my sound set finished. With maybe one or two exceptions, that's every sound changed. I love this set, it puts satisfying retro Zelda sound effects over atmospheric real sounds and makes the game feel far more alive.
dropbox.com/s/iexljtxpu280a7f/BrogueRiC.rar
(note that this doesn't include the music tracks)
Most of the sounds are from various Zelda games, the environment sounds are from various sources - mostly high(er) quality nature recordings found on YouTube, a few of them are far longer than they need to be but the whole thing uncompressed is about 90mb which probably doesn't matter much these days but they could be clipped down if necessary. It's a 40mb rar file so lean by 2014 standards (the inventory management subgame of 90s computing isn't something I miss).
If I had those effects at the time I would have used some, but without background music to me it just feels empty.
As I'm currently trying to gain slow but well earned progress at Brogue (I think level 11 is my personal best), I won't be trying out anything that will make it any easier right now but I'm really interested in your progress and experimentation though so I'll watch this space.
I'm not sure about easier, what only really matters is what's better. But to answer that question you should indeed first get yourself more familiar with the original.
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Yeah I really like the new tunneling staff. It's fun to push monsters into chasms and lava pits.
Getting strength from wands of empowerment is too obvious and easy. Empowering minions is probably still the stronger effect, but to really make that work you've got to carry all your wands around until you find a good minion and then burn a bunch of scrolls of enchantment. The strength thing is less effort and works with any build. I like that you've added a use for them in non-minion builds but right now it doesn't involve any interesting decisions. You just get a bunch of extra strength.
What if self-empowerment was a temporary thing instead? Like you got a long lasting haste and shield effect from it or something like that?
I'm not trying to change Brogue, just to tweak it. Rather than introducing new things and mechanics, I'm only trying to make more use of what's already in there.
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If I had those effects at the time I would have used some, but without background music to me it just feels empty.
See I'm the opposite. Well not the direct oposite, I don't find it feels too full but I find it gets too repetitive and flavours the game too much with the constant melodies. I like that you can spend ages between turns on roguelikes without anything marking the passage of time and if there's music then I either keep switching it off and on again or I get tired of hearing it. I would be fine with Steve Roach style ambient music (if it fit the game) but then that's essentially just more atmospheric sound. The perfect 'musical' track for me, if I ever want it, is this:
http://youtu.be/pa3CISn1uow (http://youtu.be/pa3CISn1uow)
Track 10 from the Dungeon Keeper 2 soundtrack - not really musical as such but constant dungeon ambiance with a few chords playing hear and there. I could be mistaken but I think this track at one point includes torture rack sounds in the background which is a perfect fit in Brogue of course.
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You are not the only one, other people wanted to disable music as well. I don't understand, it's like eating a cucumber without any salt... it's crazy!
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Release 9b is out, first post updated with the download link.
* polymorph now reflects too, scroll of remove curse will return you back to human form
When polymorphed to some other creature you keep your inventory and can use all the items like before, but your health, attack and defence are modified. You don't get spell casting abilities of the creature, but you obtain traits like flying, fire immunity or invisibility. If you turn yourself into a jelly you will get cloned upon being hit, or if you are a zombie you will let out a cloud of gas, or if you are a vampire you get extra speed and transference.
* stealth and sneaking
It sounded nice but it wasn't really much help without the stealth ring, and with it there was little difference. Now when in sneaking mode monsters have less chance to see you. This makes a difference and I'd say it's balanced to fit the game perfectly as moving slowly seem quite adequate penalty for gaining that extra stealth. It's actually useful for only rare occasions and is the last thing you want to be relying on, but it's a nice feature to have, it just fits.
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Release 9c is out, first post updated with the download link. Final touches, balancing and polishes before the final release, which I proclaim to be unofficial Brogue 1.7.3 sequel. Executable of classic Brogue 1.7.3 + audio only, without gameplay changes, is included in the download.
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Release 9e is out, first post updated with the download link. Audio-only mod that comes included with the latest "full-mod" release is now fully compatible with Brogue 1.7.3. Few bug-fixes were reverted to ensure there is absolutely no game-play differences, and so that it loads and produces identical save games and recordings. Brogue-AUDIO, the full mod, is complete, waiting for maybe a bug report or some feedback to make last tweaks before the final release. For anyone who manages to get the Amulet in the full mod (latest release v9e), please post your save game from 26th floor.
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* stealth and sneaking
It sounded nice but it wasn't really much help without the stealth ring, and with it there was little difference. Now when in sneaking mode monsters have less chance to see you.
What's the new chance?
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When I press enter to look at things, the cursor disappears after about 1/3 of a second. It reappears and then disappears again every time I move it.
When I use a wand of empowerment on myself, the game says "you look stronger." "You feel stronger" would work better in the case of players reflecting the wand off of something other than a mirror.
e:
Stone altars are cool.
Javelins and darts can be used to cheat stone altars.
Autoexplore doesn't seem to pick up seeds.
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What's the new chance?
For sleeping monsters, 25% per turn when walking and 5% per turn when sneaking, but since you have to take two turns to sneak that's 10% per tile. (Currently testing 30%/10%)
So when you have to walk three tiles to step next to a sleeping monster, if you just walk there in three turns there will be 75% chance in total the monster will wake up. But if you sneak, that is pause on every tile, and move there in six turns, the chance to alert the monster will come down to 30% in total.
For wandering monsters, 40% per turn when walking and 20% per turn when sneaking/waiting.
Originally in Brogue 1.7.3 monsters have 25% to see you no matter what you do or whether they are sleeping or wandering.
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When I press enter to look at things, the cursor disappears after about 1/3 of a second. It reappears and then disappears again every time I move it.
I see, thanks.
When I use a wand of empowerment on myself, the game says "you look stronger." "You feel stronger" would work better in the case of players reflecting the wand off of something other than a mirror.
I think that's the original message for drinking strength potion and I'm just using that same function which prints that message.
Stone altars are cool.
Javelins and darts can be used to cheat stone altars.
Both strange seed and stone altars are inspired by Pixel Dungeon, a broguelike for Android. -- Not sure if you know, you can also use duplicate items in recent releases. You can't profit much with darts, at best you'll get a dagger. You could gamble javelins, but unless you also mix in some high level weapon chances are you'll end up with something worse. Items created by stone altars can sometimes be cursed or enchanted, like those you can randomly find in the dungeon.
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Oh! I didn't know the quality of the final item was based on its components. That's interesting.
I had two scrolls of remove curse and I tried to throw one at a trap, but my dude threw both of them instead. I don't know if that's unique to this version or if it also happens in vanilla Brogue, but either way it shouldn't happen.
For sleeping monsters, 25% per turn when walking and 5% per turn when sneaking, but since you have to take two turns to sneak that's 10% per tile. (Currently testing 30%/10%)
Just fyi the odds of something happening with two 5% chances is a bit less than one 10% chance.
e:
Bog monsters can grab the player's legs diagonally when adjacent to a wall so that they can't attack or be attacked by the player.
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Oh! I didn't know the quality of the final item was based on its components. That's interesting.
Just because of darts and javelins. For weapons and armor maximum level of resulting item is (item_A + item_B) / 2 + 1.
I had two scrolls of remove curse and I tried to throw one at a trap, but my dude threw both of them instead. I don't know if that's unique to this version or if it also happens in vanilla Brogue, but either way it shouldn't happen.
I think you probably threw some other scroll by mistake.
Just fyi the odds of something happening with two 5% chances is a bit less than one 10% chance.
Do you have some equation for how that works? Is there Wikipedia page on the subject? I'm not sure what even look for.
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Do you have some equation for how that works?
To calculate the probability of a specific series of events, all you have to do is multiply the probability of each individual step in the series.
Every time you take a turn while sneaking, you have a 5% chance of being noticed and a 95% chance of not being noticed, right? So the probability of not being noticed after two turns is just the probability of not being noticed after one turn (95%) multiplied by itself (so 95% times 95%).
95% is just another way of writing 0.95, and 0.95 * 0.95 = 0.9025, so the odds of not being noticed after two steps is 90.25%.
If you want to find out the odds of not being noticed after ten turns, it's 0.95 to the tenth power, or 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.95, which is about 0.6, so that's a 60% chance of not being noticed after ten turns.
The same formula works for anything. When flipping a coin, you have a 50% chance of getting heads. The probability of getting heads twice in a row is 0.5 to the second power (0.5 * 0.5) which equals 25%.
You can combine totally unrelated things together and it still works. If I flipped a coin and took two steps while sneaking, the probability of both getting heads and not being noticed is 0.5 * 0.95 * 0.95 = 0.45125, or 45.125%
Does this make sense?
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The equation is:
(Probability of first event) * (Probability of second event) * ... * (Probability of nth event)
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That sounds more like what I was experiencing in the game, which is why I was looking to increase those numbers. I see the key is to look at the odds of not being noticed instead. I guess it's because being noticed is a single event per multiple steps and not being noticed is a single event per one step, but I still find that difference pretty elusive.
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That sounds more like what I was experiencing in the game, which is why I was looking to increase those numbers. I see the key is to look at the odds of not being noticed instead. I guess it's because being noticed is a single event per multiple steps and not being noticed is a single event per one step, but I still find that difference pretty elusive.
You can think of it like flipping a coin twice, where flipping tails is "being noticed".
If you flip tails on the first flip, you're done. That will happen half the time.
The only way to get noticed on your second flip is to flip "heads - tails". That happens 1/4 of the time (half times half).
The only way not to get noticed at all is to flip "heads - heads". If you think about it, the only way to avoid being detected in x turns is to flip heads x times. The odds of that happening are (1/2)**x (one-half to the xth power). The odds of being noticed, then, are one minus that number.
It takes a bit more care in keeping track of things when the odds of "being detected" are not equal to the odds of "slipping by successfully" for each turn, but the logic is identical.
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For anyone who manages to get the Amulet in the full mod (latest release v9e), please post your save game from 26th floor.
I finally got that save file for you.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/huzvto (http://www.sendspace.com/file/huzvto)
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I finally got that save file for you.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/huzvto (http://www.sendspace.com/file/huzvto)
Thanks. Unfortunately it goes out of sync on floor 8 on this computer. You used the latest version where it says "audio_v9e" in the bottom-right corner of the title screen, and it loads fine on your computer? I don't know how's that even possible. Is your Windows 64-bit maybe? I'm on Windows XP 32-bit.
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Yeah, same version and it loads fine. I'm on Windows 7 64 bit.
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There was a caged dragon in that game. It was ridiculous. He effortlessly won every fight from that point on.
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Do you think this build makes the game easier?
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Most of the changes favor the player, so yes. I think the most extreme advantage is how much earlier you can use high-end weapons and armor thanks to wands of empowerment.
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Hey Cat, could I make a request? I love your sound mod and love the new wait command but would really like a version that had this (and the mirror zapping if you wish because I can simply avoid using this) but not the sneaking or anything else that would potentially make the game easier (even if they're good ideas), especially the save scumming feature. I'll eventually play the game with these features but want to complete it without them first as mentioned before. Having the save states is far too tempting for me - it's really tough not to rationalise using them "just this once" after a stupid death but that destroys the essence of roguelike playing so I'd much rather be play without them; if there's an easy way to switch this off then that'd be great. Sneaking is completely unavoidable as one has to use the rest command to let the enemies walk past, at which point the benefits of sneaking are received and I want to be on an even keel with vanilla Brogue players right now.
I know I could play the version you included that only has the sound features/graphical tweaks but the wait command is such a good idea and every time my idiotic allies run right into certain death I can't help but be acutely aware that I could have told them to wait if I were playing your update.
If this would be time consuming and only for my benefit then that's fair enough but if you would it'd be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
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I don't think it's easier, just more balanced. Improved are only the things that were useless before, compared to rest. There are seeds with good items, and there are seeds with nothing really. I think I made easier only those seeds that were previously crap. I think the average difficulty stays about the same and only variation of difficulty shrunk among all the different seeds.
Until you have learned about all the enemies in the game and been to at least 26th floor I think permadeath serves no good purpose, it's kind of like playing chess without fully knowing the rules. I suggest you continue after dying until you at least beat the game once. And for that, it wouldn't hurt if you play the full-mod version first. I'm about to release the final build soon, so any bug-reports and feedback should come in the next few weeks, or otherwise it will be too late. I've played the game too much now, can't be bothered to make any other release, and I'm happy with how everything works.
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Until you have learned about all the enemies in the game and been to at least 26th floor I think permadeath serves no good purpose, it's kind of like playing chess without fully knowing the rules.
Disagreedo. The game gives you enough information for unspoiled wins to be plausible. It doesn't have any big gotcha moments. And Brogue is such a good game that it's still fun when you're getting slaughtered.
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Disagreedo. The game gives you enough information for unspoiled wins to be plausible. It doesn't have any big gotcha moments.
Plausible, but highly unlikely I'd say. Phantoms are gotcha moment, Krakens, Dragons, Liches, Pixies and Dar Battlemages, Spiders and Golems, and everything really is so different and unpredictable. Deadly too, if you are not prepared for any of them you can so easily die, and often in as little as five steps or less.
And Brogue is such a good game that it's still fun when you're getting slaughtered.
I agree there is some satisfaction in meeting monsters for the first time, in gradually discovering the game. It's just that it takes a lot of time, you could play and die so many times without learning nothing new even about the thing that killed you.
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Disagreedo. The game gives you enough information for unspoiled wins to be plausible. It doesn't have any big gotcha moments.
Plausible, but highly unlikely I'd say. Phantoms are gotcha moment, Krakens, Dragons, Liches, Pixies and Dar Battlemages, Spiders and Golems, and everything really is so different and unpredictable. Deadly too, if you are not prepared for any of them you can so easily die, and often in as little as five steps or less.
And Brogue is such a good game that it's still fun when you're getting slaughtered.
I agree there is some satisfaction in meeting monsters for the first time, in gradually discovering the game. It's just that it takes a lot of time, you could play and die so many times without learning nothing new even about the thing that killed you.
I hope quoting within quotes isn't some sort of Inception level fau pas because I totally just went there (and I think you just birthed a new meme with 'Disagreedo', Vanguard...not sure how you'll feel about that but I'm running with it). I see our difference in philosophy, Cat; completing the game isn't a goal, expectation, or even real consideration of mine when I play. I'm gradually getting further (I believe floor 14 is my record) and that's how I like it, even if I don't echo the sentiment "dying is fun" (it's not fun, it's not even enjoyable or welcome, but it's necessary and has value - to me at least; it can be funny and I wouldn't have it any other way but fun isn't the word). I also don't feel any sense of lack if I don't learn anything new or necesarily improve my future chances of success, the experience of pitting myself against the overwhelming odds is my end game.
I appreciate your perspective but Brogue wouldn't be Brogue to me if I could keep restarting upon failure and so while I'm aware I could manually save scum anyway (but never would), having it be the default operation is something I really dislike and it would surprise me if I was in the minority on this.
Let's avoid talk of reduced difficulty altogether: is there any way of disabling the sneak functions that you've added? If not, would you consider releasing an additional version without them?
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I also don't feel any sense of lack if I don't learn anything new or necesarily improve my future chances of success, the experience of pitting myself against the overwhelming odds is my end game.
But floor 14 are not overwhelming odds, you just lack information to plan in advance and properly prepare. It's like playing chess without fully knowing the rules. The only difference whether you will undo last move and continue playing, or start all over from the beginning, is that you will learn much faster without playing 50 more games until you get yourself into similar situation to finally analyse it again and hopefully see the best solution this time around. It's sadistic way to learn, slow and non-optimal. You wouldn't want to learn chess that way, I don't see why is it any better to torture yourself in Brogue.
I appreciate your perspective but Brogue wouldn't be Brogue to me if I could keep restarting upon failure and so while I'm aware I could manually save scum anyway (but never would), having it be the default operation is something I really dislike and it would surprise me if I was in the minority on this.
There is nothing to dislike. It's no different than every chess program having the option to undo moves, and if you want to play a proper game, you just simply don't. But if you want to learn how to play first, it will save you time.
Let's avoid talk of reduced difficulty altogether: is there any way of disabling the sneak functions that you've added? If not, would you consider releasing an additional version without them?
I want to finish this project and release one final build. Full-mod v9e is what needs attention here, it would be counter-productive to make any other release.
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I think you just birthed a new meme with 'Disagreedo'
I didn't come up with it.
But anyway, here's how you beat Brogue: enchant a broadsword until you can use it, then enchant plate armor until you can use it, then bump into every enemy until they die. Now you know the rules. Now you don't have an excuse for failure.
The save scum feature in this version is not a problem because the game doesn't force you to use it.
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But floor 14 are not overwhelming odds, you just lack information to plan in advance and properly prepare. It's like playing chess without fully knowing the rules. The only difference whether you will undo last move and continue playing, or start all over from the beginning, is that you will learn much faster without playing 50 more games until you get yourself into similar situation to finally analyse it again and hopefully see the best solution this time around. It's sadistic way to learn, slow and non-optimal. You wouldn't want to learn chess that way, I don't see why is it any better to torture yourself in Brogue.
Floor 14 is indeed overwhelming odds to me because I've yet to 'level up' my own playing ability (in addition to lacking knowledge of future hazards). I'm not a great strategist (see the complete vid for proof of this - youtube.com/watch?v=F7rBPsAUqp0) just as I'm not a great chess player despite fully understanding the moves and rules. Of course I understand that if I save scummed in order to cheat death I could gain knowledge that would improve my chances of advancement without scumming in future but I have no desire for that because, again, the advancement to later levels or the completion of the game is not overly important to me. Playing the game as is and hopefully making gradual process as I do is what I want from the game, it's my preferred experience - I don't see the need for contention here, I'm not trying to convince anyone that my perspective is superior, I'm just telling you why I like what I like and why that feature is lost on me.
Yesterday's play through (as featured in that video) went tits up after I accidentally threw a staff of tunnelling instead of zapping it at a salamander who was guarding an imprisoned troll. Had I zapped him, he would have been knocked across the room, I would have freed the troll, and probably survived. As it happened, I instead threw a potion of descent at him thinking I was far enough away only to learn that I wasn't - the fall didn't kill me but I never recovered my game and died on floor 14. Is that a masochistic way of learning from mistakes? Sure if you see it as punishment, I just see it as 'no safety net' serious business gaming. Of course it's non optimal but I don't care for optimal play as I know many players do - I don't see it as a rubix cube to be solved as efficiently as possible, I see it as an experience: an adventure, not a puzzle. It would be torture for you, not me.
Why the defensiveness? I've practically gone overboard in emphasising that I don't think your features are bad, they simply don't mesh with my style of play; I'm explaining my preferences and you're making a case for why I should do things differently - for whose benefit? For efficiency and optimality's sake? I personally can't stand that approach to gaming (though I completely understand it). Again, I'm not requesting that you remove those features for everyone - just asking if you'd make a version without them for players like myself. You eventually declined, which is fine, I just wish we could have got there with less defence of said features! As I'm being less diplomatic now, I'll say that it's ridiculous that you've insisted that your features don't make the game easier - of course they do. You increase the chances of going unseen which obviously decreases the chances of being attacked. As for the mirror statues reflecting magic (a brilliant idea), to say this doesn't make the game easier is just absurd. Being able to heal yourself, increase your strength etc. isn't making the game easier? If "easier" is such a prejorative to you then use a euphemism or don't make the game easier! Either the difficulty is increased, unchanged, or decreased - I don't think it's open to subjective interpretation.
I appreciate your perspective but Brogue wouldn't be Brogue to me if I could keep restarting upon failure and so while I'm aware I could manually save scum anyway (but never would), having it be the default operation is something I really dislike and it would surprise me if I was in the minority on this.
There is nothing to dislike. It's no different than every chess program having the option to undo moves, and if you want to play a proper game, you just simply don't. But if you want to learn how to play first, it will save you time.
There is nothing to dislike? Come on now. If there was nothing to dislike, the term 'scum' would never have been coined and every roguelike would implement it. If I dislike it then there's something to dislike - your defensiveness borders on belligerence here. Absolutely we can simply avoid using it and yes it's my fault if my willpower is so low that I struggle to resist the temptation but I doubt I'm the only one with that conflict of interest and that's why I'd find an option to disable it preferable. If most people like it as you've made it then keep it like that, maybe I'm wrong and I am in the minority here but I'm telling you how I found it because presumably as you're releasing this to the public, you're making it with other people in mind and if most people share my perspective then it's a perspective to acknowledge, surely.
But anyway, here's how you beat Brogue: enchant a broadsword until you can use it, then enchant plate armor until you can use it, then bump into every enemy until they die. Now you know the rules. Now you don't have an excuse for failure.
Kill or evade the things that are trying to kill you and don't get killed yourself. Got it. There'll be no stopping me now!
The save scum feature in this version is not a problem because the game doesn't force you to use it.
I don't think that logic is water tight though. If that's all there is to it then why not have the game say "You have died. Continue?" It wouldn't be forcing you to, just providing the convenient option. If you think that would be a bad idea then you share my reasoning. While I love permadeath, I don't love dying just as I don't love failing at anything. If you give people the easy option of cheating death then naturally we're likely to do it; yes you can say it's our fault for succumbing to temptation but the perfect solution is to enable us to choose permadeath from the start so as not to be tempted at all once we die (even though we have no excuse for failure). A significant part of game design is not leaving it down to a player's discipline to not do certain things so surely you can see the value in an option at the start to enable or disable save scumming.
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You think you are having more fun that way, but you haven't tried it the other way. Save scumming does not make you invincible, to complete the game you still have to actually overcome all the challenges just the same, and you still might not succeed. Go ahead and try, then let us know, is it really any less fun and how easy it actually was.
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Release 9x is out, first post updated with the download link. Few changes related to Vanguard's bug-report and calculation of sneaking percentages.
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174MOD:
Brogue-AUDIO_174A3s (17. December, 2014)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/brogueaudio/files/Brogue-AUDIO_174A3s.zip
174MOD (audio only):
- music and sound effects support
- improved light and shadows visibility
- no gameplay changes, compatible save-game with vanilla Brogue 1.7.4
174MOD (sneaking):
- sneaking, rest-walk-rest-walk... to keep stealth range low
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New version, some polishing and volume balancing. Also included Oryx tiles + audio mod.
First post updated with the download link.
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New and final 1.7.4 audio mod version. Some more polish, few new sounds, and Linux build bundled. First post updated with the download link.
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sorry about the bump, but how do you enable the tiles?
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bumping this as well. how do you enable Tiles ?
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I have ported Brogue to NotEye: http://www.roguetemple.com/z/noteye/brogue.php
This includes Oryx tiles and LazyCat's audio (but not his other modifications).
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Scroll of shattering
- monsters can get embedded in the green crystal
Does that sound like pokemon game where you capture monster with ball? Got to try that.
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bumping this as well. how do you enable Tiles ?
Oryx tiles version with audio support was a separate build on its own. I've taken it offline as there were bugs that I couldn't be bothered fixing. I think regular Brogue ACSII visuals actually look better than the tiles. I recommend giving it some time getting used to and it will grow on you.
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I was using Page Up/Down to adjust window size, but that would kill the audio. So I tried using ALT+Enter to maximize and that worked just fine and kept the audio. I'll have to see if it's easy to ESC out of that to check something, then go back to the game and re-maximize without affecting audio.
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I was using Page Up/Down to adjust window size, but that would kill the audio. So I tried using ALT+Enter to maximize and that worked just fine and kept the audio. I'll have to see if it's easy to ESC out of that to check something, then go back to the game and re-maximize without affecting audio.
Good. Alt+Enter will switch both in and out of full-screen.
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Hey! I have a new computer and I'm having trouble with DLing Brogue Audio. First, I am warned that it's not a familiar app. Then I run it anyway. Then it gives me a series of errors like what was recently posted on reedit. As if files are missing. Any idea what's going on?
I do not know what was recently posted on reddit. What operating system runs your new computer, and what files it is complaining are missing?
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I have Windows 10.
This program can't start because SDL_mixer.dll is missing from your computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix this problem.
Then the same message with SDL.dll
Then the same message with libtcod-mingw.dll
Then the same message with libespeak.dll
That's it. I can DL it just fine from the site. It extracts just fine and puts everything in the correct folder.
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Then the same message with libespeak.dll
This tells me it's wrong file you downloaded (Brogue174-SPEAKv11-update_win.zip). That is Brogue-SPEAK with integrated speech synthesis and other changes so blind people can play it. It is also just an update file, that's why it doesn't contain all those libraries.
Anyway, you need "Brogue-Audio_174Afinal.zip". The link is in the first post of this thread, and here it is again:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/brogueaudio/files/Brogue-AUDIO_174Afinal.zip
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Worked! No idea how I did that. I swear I was using a link you provided me in the past.
Audio is so much more fun. I also do better because without audio I often don't recognize turrets, don't realize when I don't pick something up (can't tell you how many times I've had to run all the way across a room to pick up a door key for a second time), etc.