Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Development => Programming => Topic started by: Darren Grey on March 27, 2010, 07:34:21 PM
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A new idea has just been proposed on rec.games.roguelike.development:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development/browse_frm/thread/bf6eb52794b7c06f# (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development/browse_frm/thread/bf6eb52794b7c06f#)
In short, the idea is we have a release date every September where every roguelike developer should try and get a game out. It can be a completely new project, an unreleased RL that's been in development for ages, or an update of an already published title (no matter how big or small). The date should give an incentive to get a lot more developers producing real results by a certain deadline. It'll also give us a lot more games to play coming into the winter months!
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Interesting idea. ::)
The rolling release, project independence and community have really been the earth in which the genre has grown. Maybe I'm just being an old goat, but I find an effort to apply a release calendar to the roguelike world oddly placed and artificial. The appeal of contests is clear. They provide a chance to showcase a certain sub-set of talents and confer bragging rights to the winners. Release deadlines for the sake of release deadlines...why would anyone wish to do this?
Sorry if this seems hostile. I just re-read it and it seems a bit so to me. I don't think I will edit it though. I'm feeling surly :)
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Well, the idea arose after hte 7drl contest, and the analysis of how so many good games came about that otherwise would never have seen the light of day. The idea of a deadline is a great incentive for people to do some work and actually get something released. Far far too many roguelike developers have never actually released anything, and are working in the background on some big project that they keep losing the incentive to continue working on. Honestly, the number of 'ultimate' projects started that never get anywhere is apalling. With a date for people to work towards hopefully we'll see more releases and less dreams!
That's my thought anyway. There's no need for developers to actually pay attention to the release party of course. But I really hope it leads to a lot more releases popping up, which ultimately means more fun roguelikes to play.
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The problem I see with this is that if, say, 10 big roguelikes are updated in September, the players would have to divide their attention between them. That means, each developer will get less feedback than if he updated alone. Especially the least interesting project of these 10.
Not that I see any better solution. I am not sure what would motivate the developers to release and what would not.
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There are a number of pros and cons, but I dont really care. I am just going to join the party and see how it goes.
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There's probably going to be issues regardless same as anything. I like the idea though because one would be somewhat hard pressed to contend that the Roguelike landscape would be better off if nobody had ever conceived of the 7DRL stuff and similar fare in the first place as good things tends to manifest from them afterwards and beyond. 2-3 "big" events with other "lesser", perhaps more focused, ones throughout a given year sounds more likely to do more good than harm by my reckoning.
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The problem I see with this is that if, say, 10 big roguelikes are updated in September, the players would have to divide their attention between them. That means, each developer will get less feedback than if he updated alone. Especially the least interesting project of these 10.
The existing communities of each of the 10 would benefit! Too many of even the major games are in need of some new update, and a deadline mgiht help kick some of the developers into action. A release party will also give players the excuse to try out games they haven't tried before, and importantly give some concentrated attention to new titles on the scene. It may also draw some attention from general games communities and come and see what all thefuss is about roguelikes.
As I see it nothing gets taken away from releases during other parts of the year, so development cycles can continue on as normal if developers wish it so.
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The problem I see with this is that if, say, 10 big roguelikes are updated in September, the players would have to divide their attention between them. That means, each developer will get less feedback than if he updated alone. Especially the least interesting project of these 10.
Maybe this will motivate the developer to release their update in August? ;)
Seriously though, you can compare this with the IF community, which has a large (much more formal) competition in the Fall. There is much attention and feedback given to these games. It didn't stop the release of many interesting games outside the Comp last year, though that has been a valid criticism of the Comp in years prior.
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Any attention that Roguelikes can generate is good in my opinion. It will be good for the community. As a developer, sure I will spend ages releasing a game that no one will play because there will be other much better games to be played. But that sums up roguelikes in general.
It will result in more games, more notice and more players.
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Far far too many roguelike developers have never actually released anything, and are working in the background on some big project that they keep losing the incentive to continue working on. Honestly, the number of 'ultimate' projects started that never get anywhere is apalling. With a date for people to work towards hopefully we'll see more releases and less dreams!
Perhaps there ought to be an annual Shockfrost Fair. Developers of these secret 'ultimate' projects drag their hopelessly bloated projects out into the light, share their dreams and code, and maybe get help scaling them back to something more reasonable. It might be fun to come up with some crazy dream and start working on an ultimate project just for the fair. You can let go of reason and not feel bad because it's all for fun.
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Hah, a Shockfrost Fair would be awesome :D Not sure it would be too productive though...
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I'm in with Teemu 1.1!
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It's an interesting idea and both the pros and cons named so far seem reasonable.
Indeed I also believe that this event could gather some media interest -- 7DRL events certainly did in the past. While media don't cover single project releases ('cause probably they don't even notice them), they would notice the releases in this event.
This is good and this is bad.
It is good, because roguelikes not known widely will profit from being part of the whole bunch of releases -- they would at least be recognized. Personally, I like this idea ;)
It is bad, because roguelikes which do not participate in this event -- perhaps due to time restrictions or other obligations in personal or professional life; lots of conferences in September ... -- will fall by the wayside.
As do 7DRL events today, the release party event will strengthen the impression (to "normal" people) that the games and devs participating there are the core and the, well, state of the art of roguelike development, although this is only partly true.
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It is bad, because roguelikes which do not participate in this event -- perhaps due to time restrictions or other obligations in personal or professional life; lots of conferences in September ... -- will fall by the wayside.
This is already true of almost every roguelike :P
You do have a good point of comparison with the 7DRL competition though - 7DRLs released during the rest of the year are almost completely unnoticed, which is a shame. Still I don't think that'll happen so much with the annual release party, since many games are big enough in their own right not to need to participate. Also no one will ever have enough to time give a really proper comparison of all the releases - it'll come down to players picking and choosing what to spend their time on, as they do already.
The big thing, and here the comparison with the 7drls becomes stronger, is that developers will actualyl get round to releasing something, and hopefully something very substantial.
Anyway, I'm excited :)
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Hah, a Shockfrost Fair would be awesome :D Not sure it would be too productive though...
Haha, definately. As for the ARRP, I intend to participate. If found detrimental to the RL community, I'm sure it'll be canned. No reason not to give it a shot. :)
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I think this is a nice idea. However I understand the cons and I think that we can work on this idea to make it better.
For example we can decide the better period for this event and maybe a kind of prize (better release/update of the year?) to be put in the developer website.
Only ideas, but some cents is better than nothing ;)