Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Announcements => Other Announcements => Topic started by: Lummox JR on August 14, 2007, 02:26:28 PM
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I've been wondering, is there any good Roguelike or dungeon crawl themed fiction out there? I know there's the Rogulike Fanworks Archive, which I had thought said it listed fiction (it doesn't seem to say that now), but there's none there. Heck, I don't even know if there are any books on it. I have read fictionalized accounts of people's gaming experiences, but I don't count that in the same league because it's basically a play-by-play with window dressing, not a complete narrative. I'm looking for something that's more of an actual story set in a Roguelike environment, rather than a Roguelike experience spun into a story.
I wonder this because I've written a short story in the genre myself, and I've been looking around to see if anyone else has done the same, how they had approached it, and whether it might be of interest to me. Seeing how other authors handled the material would be fascinating, because honestly it's a difficult concept to make viable. The idea that there are monster-infested dungeons where gold is just left lying around is fairly silly, but if you posit that such gold is somewhat hidden or inaccessible, that past adventurers or monsters might have left behind something of value when they died, that some creatures hoard what they find, it gets a lot easier to swallow.
I don't read a lot of fantasy, mostly sci-fi, so I wondered if someone might be aware of a book or story that fits this theme. And are there any spots online that I haven't found that might have such stories?
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I have heard some Dwarf Fortress related posts get pretty narrative and interesting... may be not what you are looking for but similar :) I am sure a link will pop out soon..
Talking about narrative, there was/is a project named Legerdemain which had narrative as a big part of the gaming experience... dunno how alive it is now..
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> I have heard some Dwarf Fortress related posts get pretty narrative and interesting... may be not what you are looking for but similar :) I am sure a link will pop out soon..
I've seen some of those, and while they're far more interesting than other Roguelike-turned-story descriptions, they're still a case of game action becoming a story rather than a story written in the world of a game.
> Talking about narrative, there was/is a project named Legerdemain which had narrative as a big part of the gaming experience... dunno how alive it is now..
I had seen that, although to my thinking that seems more game-with-story than just story. I'm just curious what other pure stories could be out there, because I have a hard time believing I'm the first person who ever thought of writing a Roguelike story for its own sake.
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Well, I've been considering for some time to write something called "Tales of Reptoran," but it would explain the background and history of my game, instead of being a sort of biography of a particular adventure.
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I wrote 4 chapters of a story which would serve as background to my game as well... it is in Spanish though, so dont know if you could read it.
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Gamer, Slash, are these more of a world history in something like a Tolkien style, or regular stories whose events predate the game? I'd suspect the former, although the latter would provide an interesting perspective on gameplay by giving it a specific quest or task, and discoveries within the game could tie into the backstory.
My main interest in the fiction, though, is fiction for its own sake, but written in the Roguelike genre. I don't know if anyone else has actually done that, but I'd be surprised if someone hadn't, and I'd like to see what they came up with. I don't read a lot of fantasy as I said, but what's out there that I'm aware of seems to fall into the categories of multi-generational epics or series built around a common theme (e.g. Pern). I think I'd quite enjoy reading a quest novel/story that stands alone, and if the setting of the story reminds me of Rogue and its kin, so much the better.
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My story is more of the tale of an adventurer into the world than the history of the world itself, so it would be more of a regular story predating the "game"... some clues about the world are given here and there.... but in general I guess it would be the kind of story you describe...
I dont implement Writer though... but I liked how it was shaping up :) if you could read spanish id gladly send it...
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I don't think this is exactly what you need (you need a story about an adventurer exploring a dungeon, but not about a particular character from a game, right?), but for ADOM see this: http://www.andywlms.com/adom/stories/adom-stories.html I think they might have been featured on the Fanwork Archive. I did not read them myself, so I don't know how good they are.
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Those stories are closer to what I had in mind, though much shorter and more in the form of a backstory. They read more like a summary or a fable, very very short.
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You can also see this (http://adom.brinkster.net/forum/threads.asp?forum=6&tmp=49337&page=1), this (http://ivan.greatboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=439&start=0), or this (http://attnam.jconserv.net/viewforum.php?f=7). Some of these things are related to the games these forums are about, some are not, some are good writing and some are not, some seem to be what you want (but not necessarily well written), maybe you will find something that interests you.
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Hrm, no, those are all way too short. Most of them are pass-around stories as well, just one person adding onto another. The sort of thing I'm looking for wouldn't be posted on a forum, because I'm looking more for the short story or novel length. I was just curious if any such works were known to exist, either posted on a page online (a forum just isn't suited for that based on size alone), or published.
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Just an FYI, there are forums out there dedicated to people posting their books/short stories/novels/etc... It's an easy way to get your story out there and viewed.
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Yet another more or less related thing... have you seen Penance (link) (http://www.penancecomic.com/)? A great story set (partially) in the roguelike world.
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Gamer, are these more of a world history in something like a Tolkien style, or regular stories whose events predate the game?
It's both. It's a collection of epic events (read: regular stories) that provide the basis for the history of the world. The major locations and characters would have a backstory; if they don't, you're just making up things for the sake of filling a game with content.
Also, I'm planning on having the sequel of my game occur BEFORE the original. This makes sense for two reasons:
1. The new setting provides a logical base for expanded exploration and enhance gameplay.
2. The sequel will be like looking at a history book, a sort of "oh......THAT'S why the gnomes were underground" or "so THAT'S what the mayor was referring to" experience.
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I looked into Penance a bit. It seems a little too slow-paced as Webcomics go, and I'm not fond of the art style (which borrows heavily from anime/manga conventions). I think I'd rather see something with stronger pacing like 8-bit Theater or Order of the Stick, maybe even something similar in format to 8-bit Theater in that uses the graphical conventions from Rogue but fills in dialogue around it. That would seem a lot more Roguelike than what I saw in Penance; despite it calling itself Roguelike there was too much set in the modern world.
I'm still surprised that after scouring Google several times over, I've yet to find any evidence that anyone else has written a proper story in the genre--at least, nothing beyond a couple thousand words at most, not even enough to count as a short story.
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Thinking about it, I'm not surprised. Roguelikes lend themselves to short stories. REALLY short stories. A novel-length roguelike story? Wouldn't that be sort of the list of all monsters you killed, with some slight movement descriptions in the middle? Maybe a story-line, not too complex (get the amulet anyone?)
Actually, pick a D&D style story, like the ones who star Drizzt do'Urden. That's pretty much as roguelike'ish as it gets... I found the books appalling though, there was zero realism or even credibility. I was almost expecting something like:
"And with a final, quick slash, Drizzt Do'Urden finished off the two remaining bugbears, opening their throats. He went up to level 17, and spend his skill points on..."
I found it to be a bit too absurd so it doesn't float my boat.
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Thinking about it, I'm not surprised. Roguelikes lend themselves to short stories. REALLY short stories. A novel-length roguelike story? Wouldn't that be sort of the list of all monsters you killed, with some slight movement descriptions in the middle? Maybe a story-line, not too complex (get the amulet anyone?)
I think the shortness of a lot of stories I've seen is just a lack of ability (or perhaps will) to inject the setting and characters into the writing, focusing mostly on the action. A good Roguelike story, I'm convinced, would need a healthy mix of those. Setting is one of the major keys to the genre, because it's all about the underground complex. Another is strategy, which manifests in what the characters bring with them or find along the way, and even inserting some odd discoveries can provide direction on how to fill in a plot. Items get lost or destroyed, new ones found or taken.
My story is actually the first I've written of novella length (I've done novel length before, and short stories aplenty), so there's definitely room to include a lot of story. But one of the major reasons was that I made one unusual choice: I included multiple characters. Most Roguelikes, I know, are single-player only, just you against the dungeon, but from the start I tried to inject some sense that the ruins could be a real place, that real people would live near and would be tempted to explore. It was sensible to me then that most expeditions would involve multiple people, and having multiple characters gives you the advantages of dialogue, intra-party conflict, and death to flesh out the story. I don't think most fan-fiction writers think to do that with Roguelikes because it doesn't seem proper, but to me it's always been about the setting and the strategy, both of which are easily included no matter how many characters you've got. I ended up sending in a party of 11.
That's not to say that multiple characters are necessary. I could quite easily see building a convincing story around the same plot as Larn, where a father goes to find the potion that will save his daugther's life. Lack of dialogue, though, means that other literary devices will be needed. It'll be rare for a lone character to talk to anyone, except maybe an intelligent creature living in the dungeons. A story like this one would benefit from following the protagonist's survival tactics, learning his state of mind, getting deep into his head.
From what I learned by writing in this genre, I feel quite confident that an entire novel could be built around it. And who knows, maybe a D&D story is the way to go to read more, though I would rather see something with "realism [and] credibility" than without. (One way to do that, I think, is not to limit the story to a specific game.) It's just such a rich trove for fiction, there has to be something good out there.
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I've recently been reading a nonfiction book that suggests storytelling is a key ingredient to communication, and the communication I'd most like to foster is getting some ideas flowing for Roguelike development. So over in my guild at BYOND (Dungeon Crawlers (http://members.byond.com/DungeonCrawlers)), I've posted the first part of a serial story whose main purpose is to get people thinking about what they'd do in their own games. This part is really just an intro, and doesn't really offer much in terms of inspiration just yet except some set dressing, but we'll see how it goes.
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The duo team of developers of Dwarf Fortress stated on an interview that story telling is one of the main sources or inspiration for the game features; One of them makes stories, the other one implements them. Kind of a nice dynamic! :)
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Yeah, if you're the story-teller ;D
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It is a different kind of satisfaction, two kinds of creation?
Some people enjoy generating ideas out of nowhere, including stories (If I remember correctly, they were talking about the possibility of launching a dwarf through the air by using a bridge... or something similar)? Some others take pride on landing these ideas into something almost physical :D
Those brothers are really lucky to have each other :')
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... (If I remember correctly, they were talking about the possibility of launching a dwarf through the air by using a bridge... or something similar)...
This is in the game already, people are making 'machines' to kill nobles by launching them into crazy Rube Goldberg devices with pressure plates and such.
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Yeah, the full article can be found here:
http://tigsource.com/articles/2007/06/29/games-for-windows-magazine-dwarf-fortress (http://tigsource.com/articles/2007/06/29/games-for-windows-magazine-dwarf-fortress)