Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Game Discussion => Classic Roguelikes => Topic started by: dreamician on March 01, 2010, 10:33:02 AM
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So ya, this is a lot different than rogue.
Choosing a class and being able to purchase equipment and items before heading into the dungeon is REALLY nice. Of course, how nice it turns out to be sort of depends on your starting gold. Usually I'm able to get a full set of leather equipment, some oil and a lantern (if offered). If I haggle carefully I can usually get a Word of recall scroll too. But not always.
So, one problem I've run into three times is what I call the "neverending multiplying monster" room. So far I've seen l's (louses) and w's (worm mass), and I think one time I encountered multiplying flies of some variety.
Anyway, wow what a pain in the neck! Even when there's only a few to start in the room, I can't kill them fast enough--they multiply faster than I can kill. The first time I ran into this deal I got surrounded. I tried to kill a path out of there, but they just kept replacing, and wittled me down to zero HP. RIP.
Second time I walked into a swarm that was already like 8 strong. I didn't even try--I high-tailed it out of there and down a corridor. Well, guess what? They can multiply ahead of you in the corridor. I managed to kill the one in front of me ad nauseum until I got to a room. One problem--no other exits. So once again, they surrounded me and RIP.
The third time was just plain unfair. I walked into a room of louses, and walked right back out. Of course they're following me the whole time. Then I headed into new territory and found ANOTHER room full of worm masses. I did my best to get to the exit on the other side, but the room quickly filled with louses and worm masses. RIP.
So... any tips? So far I think this is the most difficult obstacle I've come across. I've learned to stay away from Jellies, and red nagas (they drain your strength!).
Another question--is there a "best way" to explore a level? What I've been trying to do is take one exit and head in one direction, and keep running in that direction (ignoring alternate paths and doors) till I basically come to a halt, then I backtrack and explore those alternate routes. I try basically to find an edge, explore that edge, then go clockwise or counterclockwise to another edge and map that out, then head into the center.
Is there a better way?
Any help appreciated!
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Multiplying monsters are annoying, however not really the threat I remember. A spell of detect monster helps a lot, if playing a wizard/rogue. Once monsters wake up they start multiplying, try a higher stealth character and they hopefully wont wake up until you see them. The first ball spell of the wizard takes care of louses if encountered early enough. Otherwise run away. They should not be able to kill you one at a time and eventally you will be able to shut a door behind them. Shut all doors you see to keep them contained, then change level if you really want to. You should only run to known escape routes, or you will run into that kobold on 1hp. Obviously a word of recall will save you, but are very pricy for an early character.
Level up a few time on level 1 by clearing it and going back up to the town and back again.
As for clearing levels, I really just head in one direction and until I hit the end then go around the edges. Remember to search areas when doors are probably hidden, so you dont miss out on areas. You will regonise these spots soon enough.
Stat draining monsters are really annoying, until you get thet HA ego weapon. Yeehaw! Long live Moria. Well at least rest in peace.
Anyway my memory of this game is at least 12 years old. But it is probably my most played game, I should whip out a copy. To the internet!
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Just found this post from the creater of moria
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.angband/msg/6526ee37f9e09e1a?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
"I never got to play Moria and be surprised... "
I wonder how he felt when he played angband.
I got binary from here. Its a little hard to go back to moria from angband. Too bad there is not a moria variant of angband.
http://remarque.org/~grabiner/moria.html
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On a side note, NPPAngband 0.5 was just released.
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Thanks for the tips, keep 'em coming. I'm trying out the different classes and race combinations. So far half-orc warrior does extremely well.
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One thing that helps to keep in mind is that you done have to kill everything. Those stat drainers and acid monster are best left alone. Also once you feel comfortable enough dive deep, that is where you will get more exp for your kills and better item drops. OTOH I won with a troll priest, with a very slow decent. But you level quicker if you descend quicker. You just need to make sure you have something to get you out of trouble. Staffs of cure critical wounds, speed, ?of Phase Door, teleport etc. If you dont have these buy them from the shop. A warrior will get into trouble otherwise. And use ranged weapons to soften up those hard monsters.
To succeed in moria you need great equipment, and that is only found down deep. Of course run for anything with a emperor prefix.
Also I remember something about level 25 being good for rings of speed.
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Thanks, your advice is much appreciated. The more I play Moria, the more I like it. It's extremely addicting. I guess not too many people are playing Moria, at least who are reading this thread--maybe they've moved on to Angband etc. But my goal is to play these roguelikes in succession of their release, so I can truly appreciate features/aspects of the later games. You said you beat the game with a troll priest. Good job, it tells me that you really know how to play this game.
Again, thanks for joining my thread.
Regarding exploring methods, I noticed that if you do shift+m, you get an overhead map! So at the start of the level I can see if I'm in a corner/middle etc, and can start productively exploring in the appropriate directions. Extremely useful. It also shows any > or < which is really helpful when you're ready to move on.
Now on to some questions...
Secret Doors
What's the maximum number of times you usually check for secret doors on a tile?
If I'm just exploring the map, I usually do 6->s to search 6 times quickly. I found that *usually* finds a door. OTOH there have been a few times where I ran down to the end of the hall, and I knew there HAD to be a door there, but six repeat searches didn't find it.
One time I think the door didn't appear until I had done 18 searches. On another occasion I swear it didn't show up until I had entered 6->s about six times. (36 searches). So what's your max that you do, and do you have a standard number that you do when you're first exploring the map and not looking to fill out the last corner etc?
Items
Okay, so I'm finding all these wands, staves, scrolls, potions etc. And so far what I've been doing is waiting until my inventory is full (can't pick up anything else) and I have a decent number of hit points.
Then I just start quaffing potions until I've gone through the list. Then I read all my unidentified scrolls. Once I find a non-mobile monster (like a mold/jelly) I zap it with all the wands I have, and/or Zap all my staves.
So when I'm done trying everything out, and I look at the list, about half of them are now identified. But some of them are listed like this (example):
k) a Zirconium Wand {tried}.
So, even after using it a bunch of times, it still says {tried} etc. So do you have to use an identify scroll on them or will they eventually ID if you use them enough?
Which types of items are worth using an ID scroll on? I know one time I had a wand that shot some kind of frost ball, and that killed most monsters with one or two hits--I found it extremely useful.
How do you try your stuff? As soon as you find it, or do you wait till you have full inv etc? Or do you play it safe and wait until you get to down and just scroll-id as much as you can?
Because this happened one time--it was just nasty. I was reading through my scrolls when one came up as "summon monster." It summoned some kind of naga (can't remember which kind) and a mushroom patch. Well, before I could attack or do anything, the mushroom sprayed out spores that paralyzed me. And it kept doing this EVERY TURN while the naga just kept hitting me.
I started that fight with something like 130 hp's and I was down to 20 hp's before finally I resisted the paralyzation one turn enough for me to move one square to the right, then the next turn it got me again until I was down to about 8 hp's. Then I resisted once again and moved another square so that I was out of range of the mushroom patch.
I drank all my cured light potions, and a potion of heroism while I slugged it out with the naga. It was super-tough, so something tells me that summon monster scrolls will pull up monsters tougher than the usual ones for that depth. Is that accurate? Anyway, I barely survived that encounter, and it makes me really nervous about reading scrolls to ID them. Any thoughts?
That's it for now...
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Thanks, your advice is much appreciated. The more I play Moria, the more I like it. It's extremely addicting.
I found moria very addictive as a kid, even the more tedious things like tunneling for gold, haggling, grinding away at thousands of louses to get 5 experience points. Now-a-days I shudder at the though but back then I had all the time in the world.
But my goal is to play these roguelikes in succession of their release, so I can truly appreciate features/aspects of the later games. You said you beat the game with a troll priest. Good job, it tells me that you really know how to play this game.
Very admirable goal, one more people should take up on. I am amazed how good moria is compared to rogue, some of the things in it are fantastic given the time and technology behind it at the time.
Secret Doors
It has been a while since I played moria, so I cant remember how many times I, but it will depend on your searching skill. You can also switch to search mode permanently with '#' but I cant remember what the benefit of this is. I quite often just hold done the 's' key for a few seconds, this will lead to some deaths though :), I probably should use the repeat command for searching. Taking many turns does not really matter because it is very hard to starve, so search until you get bored.
Items
With unidentified potions and scrolls I usually sell them at the shop, this ids them for me and takes care of all the nasty ones. Potions of stats, experience and invulnerability will be lost this way of course. Maybe use a scroll of ID on potions found deep in the dungeon. (Or become a mage with the ID spell). In the early game a lot of the potions and scrolls have nasty effects so I never use id them unless I am desperate for a potion of speed or healing. Thats a good story about the scroll of summon monster though. I am not sure of the level monsters are generated at though, but I seem to remember experimenting with them hoping to get a good treasure monster to appear.
I generally zap/use wands and staffs on monsters and sell the ones that dont id. You will find staffs of teleportation and speed this way which are the ones you most want. I cant remember if you have to be hurt to ID healing staffs. You will id the item if you notice an effect from them. Pointing a wand of disarm trap at jellies will obviously not id it. Of course this needs prior knowledge of the type of items you will find.
I spend a lot of time selling unidentified items to the shop, however later when you can afford many scrolls of id go crazy with them. In the end I end up mostly using them on armour and weapons. You dont want to sell an ego weapon to id them :)
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Wow, this takes me back. It has been a long time and I think I will need to play a little Moria soon. For an alternative source of binaries and sources check out Beej's Moria repository.
http://beej.us/moria/ (http://beej.us/moria/)
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Thanks for the insights and tips. So here's a little update.
Relying on potions/scrolls to deal with poison/healing wasn't working to well for me as a warrior. Typically I didn't find what I was needing in the dungeon, so I was making trips to town to buy stuff from the shops.
But this presented it's own problems. My first attempts at haggling were a disaster. I was trying to start off at about 1/3rd of the listed price, then go up increments of 10. But a few times, before I got close to meeting him on the price, he would kick me out of the shop and lock the doors! Even after recalling back to the dungeon and back to town I couldn't go back in that shop. That really took me by surprise.
So I modified my haggling. I still start out real low (or high if selling), I go in increments of 25 until we're within 100 gp of each other. Then I go by increments of 10 until we're within 50 gp, then increments of 5 until we meet on a price. That seems to work reasonably well.
Q: do you have a better method?
But even with decent haggling, I'm usually only able to get a ? of recall for around 200gp. When purchasing potions, the shop typically runs out of stock after I buy 3-4 of an item, and sometimes even after buying only one! I realized that if I mapped out every level in the dungeon as much as possible, I was having to use all the potions I bought for that level.
So basically I'm having to return to town for supplies every time I go down a level. That means I'm spending about 400gp for each trip, which doesn't include what I'm spending on potions. I wasn't finding nearly enough gold on every level to make up for that kind of spending, especially considering I had virtually nothing left to buy upgraded armor/weapon etc.
So looking over the classes again, I restarted as a paladin. They get some spells to help out with healing/poison, as well as spells(prayers) to temporarily boost fighting ability and stuff. WIth the paladin, I was doing great until I hit 600 feet depth.
At 600 feet I ran into the most frustrating enemy yet: the Brigand. It goes a little something like this...
The Brigand hits you.
The Brigand touches you.
Your backpack feels lighter.
There is a puff of smoke!
I ran into him about 4 times on the same level. Every time, he hits or misses, touches me etc then teleports away before I can get in a hit. A couple of times I was able to get in one hit before he started his chain of actions. What a pain in the ass! Oh, but that's not the best part.
The best part is the game wasn't kidding about your backpack. I took a look and he had swiped a potion or two and my level II prayer book. That one cost me about 400 gold. A paladin can't use prayers if he doesn't have the book in his inventory containing them. So to catch back up to where I was before running into him, I had ascended, looking for gold, eventually getting enough to replace what I had in my inventory. Then I went back down to 600 feet.
I ran into him AGAIN, and this time he took both my prayer books...
It's... beyond annoying, because even after running into him enough times I was able to finally kill him, you don't get your stuff back! He just drops gold when he dies. UGH.
Q: Any ideas on how to deal with the Brigand?
Engram--thanks, ya I ran into Beej's site while searching for info on Moria. Nice little page.
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Warriors really to rely on staffs for the long run, as do most characters but if you are chewing through potions two quick perhaps it is right to change class. However try ranged combat might soften things up. Also you dont have to clear out levels if dangerous creatures are about. You will be amazed how useful detect evil or detect monsters spells are.
Brigands, cant relly remember them so much, but that is a common enemy theme. Ranged combat should see them off. Wands will be good, and if you are a warrior you should use use some sort of ranged attack. However I really only play priests and wizards so I would use portal/phase door if he got close. Monsters not dropping you stuff was the most annoying thing about moria, that always seemed wrong to me.
Ha, its all coming back now. There are certain monsters that when I encountered them, I ran away to a sealable room, dumped everything that was valuable and then attacked the monster. I usually carried lots of food, oil, and other useless stackable items and many spell books just for this case so the mosnter just stole useless items. It was funny that I now know that that particular creature was named after a player that actually beat the game.
However I will stress that some creatures a best avoided.
If you are playing a magic character it is a good idea to always carry spare spell books. That will save your life.
Money will be easier to find with a pick and some sort of treasure detection. The deeper you go the more treasure is worth. Soon you will find enough treasure and items per level to not worry about running out of money.
As for haggling if you are not getting to his highest/lowest price you are not doing it right. Moria haggeling comes naturally to me so I dont know really how I do it. I start off as low as I can go with out pissing him off. You will know you are pissing him off when he doen't really budge his score. I generally start with increments of 10, 5, 3, 2, and 1. I dont know the optimum way but I always seem to get the best price when buying. Selling is a bit hit and miss, as it is easy to get him to kick you out of his shop. I think you have to wait a day in game time, just go back to the dungeon and clear a level or two. I remember as a high level character having to clear level 1 and 2 juts to get the shopkepper that sold word of recall to allow him back in the shop. Plus once a shopkeeper knows you are a great haggler he rewards you.
Make sure you sell as much as you can at the same store. Usually the one where you get the best price because of you race.
Good luck.
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Okie doke. Thanks so much for the tips and suggestions. From now on I'll post a summary of my latest character, and if you have any comments, suggestions, or tips based on what you see, please reply :)
Name : Goss
Race : Human
Sex : Male
Class : Paladin
Title : Defender-2
STR : 18/06
INT : 11
WIS : 12
DEX : 15
CON : 12
CHR : 17
+ To Hit: 3
+ To Damage: 7
+ To AC: 8
Total AC: 37
Exp to Adv : 7290
Level: 20
Experience: 6380
Max Exp: 6380
Cur Hit Points: -1
Max Hit Points: 152
Cur Mana: 21
Max Mana: 21
Gold: 1462
(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Superb
Stealth : Poor
Perception : Bad
Bows/Throw : Superb
Disarming : Fair
Searching : Poor
Saving Throw: Excellent
Magic Device: Excellent
Infra-Vision: 0 feet
[Character's Equipment List]
a) You are wielding : a Bastard Sword (3d4) (+4,+4).
b) Worn on head : a Metal Cap [3,+2].
c) Worn around neck : an Amulet of Slow Digestion.
d) Worn on body : Bar Chain Mail (-2) [18,+0].
e) Worn on shield arm : a Medium Leather Shield [3,+0].
f) Worn on hands : a Set of Gauntlets [2,+0].
g) Right ring finger : a Ring of Protection [+4].
h) Left ring finger : a Ring of Protection [+3].
i) Worn on feet : a Pair of Soft Leather Boots [2,-1].
j) Worn about body : a Cloak [1,-1].
k) Light source is : a Brass Lantern with 6379 turns of light.
l) Secondary weapon : a Pick (1d3) (+0,+0) (+1).
[General Inventory List]
a) 3 Holy Books of Prayers [Beginners Handbook].
b) 2 Holy Books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom].
c) a Holy Book of Prayers [Chants and Blessings].
d) 28 Rations of Food.
e) a Piece of Elvish Waybread.
f) 28 Flasks of Oil.
g) 4 Potions of Super Heroism.
h) 13 Potions of Cure Light Wounds.
i) 18 Potions of Cure Serious Wounds.
j) 3 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds.
k) a Potion of Haste Self.
l) 3 Scrolls of Word-of-Recall.
m) a Scroll of Summon Undead.
n) 14 Scrolls of Identify.
o) 2 Scrolls of Remove Curse.
p) a Wand of Confuse Monster (15 charges).
q) a Wand of Stone-to-Mud (5 charges).
r) a Wand of Lightning Bolts (11 charges).
s) a Wand of Stinking Cloud (13 charges).
t) a Wand of Clone Monster (3 charges).
u) a Long Bow (x3) (+0,+0).
v) 25 Arrows (1d4) (-5,-6).
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I am starting to play it again, man this is such a great game. I am just running a few man warriors to get my bearings. Have to remember which coloured what I should not touch. It is bringing back a lot of memories. I had a 17th level warrior who just died to a monster trap. Wow I forgot about those. Very surprising and an interesting way to die. Lesson learnt: carry a scroll of phase door at all times.
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Monster trap... is that where you enter a seemingly empty room and are suddenly surrounded by monsters that all attack at once? Well I've run into a few of those, and my tactic is to concentrate on attacking the one between me and a doorway, then as soon as he's dead, I head for that door and hopefully make it into the hallway, where I can fight one at a time.
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Okay, here's a dump of my latest character. Doing pretty good so far. The best find was the claymore. After making many trips to town to enchant weapon and armor, I have my equips closer to what I'd like.
Oh ya, so I now start moria with a few options, mainly -h (autohaggle). So when I buy or sell the shopkeeper immediately gives me a reasonable final offer. I spend a LOT less time in town now, I'm pretty happy using this feature.
So hey... post your character so I can see what kind of equipment and items you're carrying around. Here's a tip though... to make everything line up, use..
[font=Lucida Console] text [/font]
Name : Escanor Age : 18 STR : 18/18
Race : Human Height : 63 INT : 6
Sex : Male Weight : 196 WIS : 13
Class : Paladin Social Class : 16 DEX : 17
Title : Defender-7 CON : 18
CHR : 16
+ To Hit : 11 Level : 25 Max Hit Points : 295
+ To Damage : 13 Experience : 23205 Cur Hit Points : 295
+ To AC : 12 Max Exp : 23205 Max Mana : 26
Total AC : 45 Exp to Adv : 23625 Cur Mana : 26
Gold : 1090
(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Superb Stealth : Poor Perception : Bad
Bows/Throw : Superb Disarming : Good Searching : Poor
Saving Throw: Excellent Magic Device: Excellent Infra-Vision: 0 feet
Character Background
You are one of several children of a Serf. You are a
credit to the family. You have dark brown eyes, curly
black hair, and an average complexion.
[Character's Equipment List]
a) You are wielding : a Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) (3d6) (+7,+10) {Krassian}.
b) Worn on head : an Iron Helm [5,+2].
c) Worn around neck : an Amulet of Slow Digestion.
d) Worn on body : Bar Chain Mail (-2) [18,+2].
e) Worn on shield arm : a Medium Metal Shield [4,-1].
f) Worn on hands : a Set of Gauntlets [2,+1].
g) Right ring finger : a Ring of Increase To-Hit (+3).
h) Left ring finger : a Ring of Protection [+4].
i) Worn on feet : a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+0].
j) Worn about body : a Cloak [1,+3].
k) Light source is : a Brass Lantern with 6153 turns of light.
l) Secondary weapon : a Pick (1d3) (+0,+0) (+3).
[General Inventory List]
a) 3 Holy Books of Prayers [Beginners Handbook].
b) 3 Holy Books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom].
c) 3 Holy Books of Prayers [Chants and Blessings].
d) 2 Holy Books of Prayers [Exorcism and Dispelling].
e) 12 Rations of Food.
f) 11 Flasks of Oil.
g) 2 Potions of Super Heroism.
h) 3 Potions of Heroism.
i) a Potion of Cure Serious Wounds.
j) 4 Potions of Healing.
k) 3 Potions of Restore Strength.
l) 2 Potions of Restore Dexterity.
m) 2 Potions of Restore Constitution.
n) a Potion of Cure Critical Wounds.
o) 4 Scrolls of Word-of-Recall.
p) 4 Scrolls of Identify.
q) a Wand of Lightning Bolts {empty}.
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Nice weapon, does lots of damage. Keep in mind that lighter weapons give you multiple attacks depending on strength. I don't know the best weapon my self, so I always go for higher damage, as opposed to something that will eventually give 3 hits. The faq has more info on this. I will start playing again soon.
Autohaggle? I don't have that option :(. I was considering modifying the sources for that purpose alone.
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Okay, I'm not sure if you're using unbuntu, mac, or windows pc. So this might be a lame suggestion. But here are links to the umoria I'm using. It has color code and is based on 5.x I believe.
Here's the page I found it on (also great for early versions/source code of rogue)
http://www.roguelikedevelopment.org/archive/index.php (http://www.roguelikedevelopment.org/archive/index.php)
If you scroll down, you'll eventually find..
"UMoria 5.5.2 Color (DOS) - mor552c.zip"
And if you're lazy and don't feel like going to the page itself, here's a link to the file.
http://www.roguelikedevelopment.org/archive/files/executables/mor552c.zip (http://www.roguelikedevelopment.org/archive/files/executables/mor552c.zip)
So, for this post, I'm assuming you're using windows of some kind and can run dos games. All you have to do is modify the shortcut to the executable to include the -h switch. Or you can use the batch file already included in the zip (play.bat) which turns on/off several different options.
And... POST YOUR CHARACTER DUMP! ;)
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If you scroll down, you'll eventually find..
"UMoria 5.5.2 Color (DOS) - mor552c.zip"
Oh happy days, that one is much better than the one I was using. Thanks for that. I can really get into it now.
And... POST YOUR CHARACTER DUMP! ;)
I will when I have something decent. I have not played much with the 7DRL comp around. But I will now get into it.
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Hello fellow Moria players! I've just started playing again this month after many years. This is my favorite Rogue-like game because it's difficult, yet winnable.
I'm playing a half-elf Paladin (35th level) right now and can give you some advice on your character.
OK, I like your primary weapon, but I see your shield is at -1. You should replace that. That's a good Ring of Protection, but as soon as you find a ring of Increase Damage, you should use that instead. Later, AC won't mean as much as being able to do lots of damage.
Check the shops frequently for scrolls to increase your AC, to hit, or to damage.
You're carrying an awful lot of oil. Did you know you can Fill your lamp up to 15,000 turns? (Also, when you're playing a low level character, you can actually throw oil at opponents, doing a bit of damage and increased if it's susceptible to fire.)
You're also carrying a lot of food. I actually don't carry food anymore. Being a Paladin, you can caste the Create Food spell. Also, drinking the odd potion or eating any innocuous mushroom/hairy mold counts as a few hundred turns of food. Eat and drink anything you find that won't harm you.
You're also wearing an Amulet of Slow Digestion. Since you can create food, this spot would be better for an Amulet of Searching, if you can find one. That would be ideal, considering your Searching ability is Poor and Perception is Bad I think the Super Heroism and Heroism potions are a waste. In addition to temporarily adding to your HPs, they merely increase your fighting ability, which is already Superb. Replace them with wands/staves.
You need a spare weapon, preferably a bow. When combined with bonuses for the bow, the arrows/bolts, and your strength, these can do a tremendous amount of damage.
Forget the Cure Serious Wounds potion. As you wander around, you'll heal up. Besides, as a Paladin you can cast healing spells. Purchase at the shops lots of Cure Critial Wounds potions for their ability to cure Confusion and Blindness. The Cure Serious does this, too, but doesn't heal as many HPs, and is taking up a valuable spot in your backpack.
Be on the lookout for any ego weapons. On rare occasions, you can actually find them in the shops.
SD--Slay Dragon (4x damage). You'll encounter lots of dragons, and the ancient variety are fast can can kill you with one breath.
HA--Holy Avenger. In addition to its Slay Undead and Slay Evil abilities, it will sustain a stat (depending on its +) and, best of all, lets you see invisible monsters.
SU--Slay Undead. If you can't find a HA, keep one of these. It also lets you see invisible.
DF--Defender. This is nice if you don't have any other armor that gives you Resistance. Its Free Action ability prevents you from being slowed, paralyzed, slept, charmed, or stunned. You will also regenerate, but consequently will use up food faster.
SE--Slay Evil. Nice if you can't find any other ego weapon, as most of the baddies are evil.
The remaining ego weapons--Slay Animal (SA), Flame Tounge (FT), and Frost Band (FB), are better than nothing, but some monsters are resistant. For example, don't use a FT weapon against a red dragon.
Whenever you find the following items, you'll want to find permanent spots in your backpack for them:
Restore Mana potion--Liches love to drain your mana
Haste Self potion--Emperor Liches, ancient dragons, and the Balrog move fast
Cure Critical Wounds potion--cures confusion and blindness and restores some HPs
Healing potion--restores all your HPs, cures confusion and blindness
Ring of Sustain Dexterity--Liches and Quasits drain dexterity
Ring of Lordly Protection (Fire)--adds to AC and resists fire (use for the Balrog)
Restoration mushroom--restores lost attributes
Invulnerability potion--use against Balrog
Other useful items to have when found:
Ring of Sustain Wisdom
Wand of Stinking Cloud--use this against those pesky monsters that breed fast; can hold lots of charges, so use Recharge scrolls on this
Wand of Lightning Balls--use against undead; they're susceptible to light attacks
Wand of Fire Balls
Staff of Dispel Evil
Staff of Curing
Since you're lacking in gold, sell any wands and staves you find in the shops. These can bring in lots of money. Naturally, magic arms and armor (once identified) can also fetch a high price.
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Good tips.
I also find staffs of teleportation and speed are very valuable to carry around, as are rings of speed, needed for killing those fast creatures.
Once you start collecting these types of items don't melee any creature that can steal your stuff or destroy it. Losing some of these items could cost you the game. If you cant resist killing an Evil Iggy, then dump your stuff somewhere and kill him. Note that this is extremely risky, I once had a Gelatinous Cube generate near my stuff, and trapdoors mean bye bye. But Iggies sure do drop a lot of stuff :)
On a whim I played a human paladin. Normally I would never play a human or a paladin. I like wizards and cleric normally. There is nothing special about this character yet.
Name : Roger Age : 18 STR : 16
Race : Human Height : 62 INT : 7
Sex : Male Weight : 175 WIS : 16
Class : Paladin Social Class : 81 DEX : 14
Title : Defender-6 CON : 14
CHR : 14
+ To Hit : 7 Level : 24 Max Hit Points : 208
+ To Damage : 8 Experience : 13993 Cur Hit Points : 208
+ To AC : 22 Max Exp : 15390 Max Mana : 25
Total AC : 48 Exp to Adv : 16875 Cur Mana : 19
Gold : 12966
(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Superb Stealth : Poor Perception : Bad
Bows/Throw : Superb Disarming : Fair Searching : Poor
Saving Throw: Excellent Magic Device: Excellent Infra-Vision: 0 feet
Character Background
You are one of several children of a Titled Noble. You are
a credit to the family. You have brown eyes, straight
black hair, and an average complexion.
[Character's Equipment List]
a) You are wielding : a Beaked Axe (2d6) (+8,+7).
b) Worn on head : an Iron Helm [5,+3].
c) Worn around neck : an Amulet of Resist Acid.
d) Worn on body : Leather Scale Mail (-1) [11,+10].
e) Worn on shield arm : a Large Leather Shield [4,+1].
f) Worn on hands : a Set of Gauntlets [2,+4].
g) Right ring finger : a Ring of Resist Cold.
h) Left ring finger : a Ring of Protection [+3].
i) Worn on feet : a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+0].
j) Worn about body : a Cloak [1,+1].
k) Light source is : a Brass Lantern with 5878 turns of light.
l) Secondary weapon : an Orcish Pick (1d3) (+0,+0) (+2).
[General Inventory List]
a) a Holy Book of Prayers [Beginners Handbook].
b) 3 Holy Books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom].
c) a Holy Book of Prayers [Chants and Blessings].
d) 4 Rations of Food.
e) 2 Flasks of Oil.
f) 2 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds.
g) 3 Scrolls of Word-of-Recall.
h) a Scroll of Remove Curse.
i) 8 Scrolls of Identify.
j) a Wand of Teleport Away.
k) a Wand of Polymorph.
l) a Staff of Teleportation (3 charges).
m) a Staff of Sleep Monsters (7 charges).
n) a Staff of Slow Monsters.
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Re: speed items...yeah, I purposely didn't mention looking for those because they're rare. That's what my character is hunting for now. Potions of Haste Self are fine against high level undead, but don't cut it against AMHDs.
One other tip: Did you know that throwing a Mold/Mushroom of Unhealth at a monster will do a tremendous amount of damage if it hits?
You can also inscribe an item in your backpack with a single number and use that number instead of a letter when prompted. I've incribed my alternate weapons and Identify scrolls with numbers so that I can select them without having to first look at my Inventory.
My character is below. I've spent a great deal of time maxing out his stats, raising his level, finding good stuff and building up his AC. (The trick is to farm Gelatinous Cubes and Quylthulgs.)
Name : p1 Age : 27 STR : 18/100
Race : Half-Elf Height : 76 INT : 18/100
Sex : Male Weight : 137 WIS : 18/100
Class : Paladin Social Class : 54 DEX : 18/100
Title : Warder (9th) CON : 18/100
CHR : 18/100
+ To Hit : 22 Level : 35 Max Hit Points : 425
+ To Damage : 17 Experience : 632747 Cur Hit Points : 425
+ To AC : 47 Max Exp : 632747 Max Mana : 141
Total AC : 87 Exp to Adv : 725000 Cur Mana : 141
Gold : 136897
(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Superb Stealth : Good Perception : Superb
Bows/Throw : Superb Disarming : Excellent Searching : Superb
Saving Throw: Superb Magic Device: Superb Infra-Vision: 50 feet
Character Background
Your mother was a High-Elf. You are one of several
children of a Yeoman. You are a well liked child. You
have blue eyes, straight brown hair, and an average
complexion.
[Character's Equipment List]
a) You are wielding : a Mace (HA) (2d4) (+10,+8) [+4] (+3 to STR) {4}.
b) Worn on head : a Soft Leather Cap of Infra-Vision [1,+9] (+3).
c) Worn around neck : an Amulet of Searching (+45).
d) Worn on body : Ribbed Plate Armor (-3) [28,+3].
e) Worn on shield arm : a Large Metal Shield [5,+8].
f) Worn on hands : a Set of Gauntlets of Free Action [2,+4].
g) Right ring finger : a Ring of Increase Damage (+3).
h) Left ring finger : a Ring of Increase To-Hit (+6).
i) Worn on feet : a Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Stealth [3,+4] (+2).
j) Worn about body : a Cloak [1,+10].
k) Light source is : a Brass Lantern with 12857 turns of light.
l) Secondary weapon : a Composite Bow (x4) (+10,+9).
[General Inventory List]
a) 2 Holy Books of Prayers [Beginners Handbook].
b) 2 Holy Books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom].
c) 2 Holy Books of Prayers [Chants and Blessings].
d) 2 Holy Books of Prayers [Exorcisms and Dispellings].
e) 19 Mushrooms of Restoration.
f) 19 Potions of Restore Mana.
g) 5 Potions of Invulnerability.
h) 7 Potions of Haste Self.
i) 3 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds.
j) 10 Potions of Healing.
k) 2 Scrolls of Word-of-Recall.
l) 10 Scrolls of Identify {0}.
m) a Wand of Fire Balls (5 charges).
n) a Wand of Stinking Cloud (21 charges).
o) a Wand of Lightning Balls (3 charges).
p) a Staff of Dispel Evil (10 charges).
q) a Ring of Sustain Dexterity.
r) a Ring of Lordly Protection (FIRE) [+5].
s) an Orcish Pick (1d3) (+0,+0) (+6) {1}.
t) an Executioner's Sword (4d5) (+10,+17) {2}.
u) a Beaked Axe (SD) (2d6) (+10,+12) {3}.
v) 23 Arrows of Slay Evil (1d4) (+9,+4).
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Wow Kaleto, welcome to the thread and thanks so much for posting!
You packed quite a lot of advice in your post, and it's going to take me some time to process everything you've said. I'm kind of collecting and compressing your tips plus coremn's into a text file that I can refer to over and over again until I've got everything pretty well memorized.
Wow, that character dump is incredible. Coremn thanks for posting your char. Just looking at the equipment that you guys are carrying and the stuff you carry in your backpack gives me a better idea of what I should be hauling around. Good times.
Okay, just a few questions.
[Kaleto]
You're wearing a soft leather cap? Surely you've found a better helm of some kind by now, so I'm thinking it's just for the infravision?
Ribbed plate armor. How did you get that? When I go to town they only sell leather and chainmail stuff. So that brings up the question of--do they sell better stuff as you gain levels, or do have to find better stuff in the dungeon?
Eh, this next question goes out to both of you.
Okay, having a second (ranged) weapon seems to good advice. But as you can see from that dump, I keep a pick in the secondary spot so when I see a mineral vein, I can switch weapons in one turn and do 6 turns of mining. My other reasoning for doing that is I can switch back in one turn if a monster shows up while I'm mining. So how do I manage the pick and the bow?
If I keep the bow in the secondary spot, it means I've got to go the equip screen to wield the pick, mine, then equip screen again to wield the sword.
I noticed that coremn is carrying a pick, and no bow (what I'm doing now). But kaleto, you have no pick in your inventory. Are you ignoring mineral veins then?
More questions later... thanks again guys for joining the thread!
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Hehe, I can give advice about ranged weapons but I am just diving semi-rapidly to a death by the balrogs claws. I dont think this character will win, so down I go. This is really just a remembering trek, my next game will be serious. I dont have the patience for any sort of scumming, or at this stage ranged combat, so I am ignoring a lot of monsters, that I could soften up with bows. I am keeping an eye out for a composite bow though. Currently the pick might come handy for mithril or column dancing if I find some rings of speed later. You should have no money issues from selling equipment at the shops, you really dont have to dig for it, but who can resist, the sparkle of gems or mithril.
You will find infra-vision is good to avoid some annoying critters, before they get the jump on you. One of the reasons I never usually play humans, I am only playing one now for quick leveling.
Good armour is usually found in the dungeon, but keep an eye on the shops. Generally the deeper you go the better the items, however that is not necessarily true, some items are generated with a higher probability at certain levels.
So far I have not found one ego weapon and have only seen one potion of stat gain, p.s my stats were seriously drained in my char dump. And only one scroll of recharging. But I am sure all my luck will change around that next corner. (As long as it is not a poison blast from a AMHD, I am going to surly panic when I see one of them).
Onwards to death...
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Yes, the only reason I have the cap is for the infravision. I can spot those thieving "p"s and breath weapon monsters 5 squares away!
Of course, as a half-elf, I also had infravision, but it was shorter ranged. You'll find that as you gain levels, AC isn't as important as special abilities.
The ribbed plate armor I was lucky to find, as I'm only at 1700 feet. One of the FAQ files says it's normally found on level 50 (2500 feet). I've been up to town level a lot and the best armor I've seen for sale there with this character is some form of chail mail.
What the shops will have is random, but on rare occasions they'll have ego weapons or armor with resistance. Always check. Rule of thumb is the deeper in the dungeon you go, the better stuff you'll find...and the badder the monsters are.
Gain stat potions become more frequent at 1250 feet. I hung out there for a long time to mainly increase strength and dexterity so I could get multiple attacks in. Once my stats were high, I headed down to 1700 feet where there are monsters worth more experience so I could gain levels. I should head deeper to increase the odds of finding speed items, but I'm leery of encountering too many AMHDs. Maybe when I gain one more level.
It will take 1 turn whether you hit X to exchange weapons or equip a weapon from your backpack. The easiest way is to inscribe (using the { key) your weapons with a single digit. When you want to equip one from your backpack, you hit w to wear it and it prompts you for the item. Instead of looking at your inventory, you can just hit the number you incribed it with. That way it doesn't matter if its letter changes in your backpack.
I actually do have a pick in my backpack (+6)--actually I just found a better one that's +7! It's inscribed with {1}. My other weapons are also inscribed so I can swap for the ideal one depending upon the situation.
Although I don't need to mine for money anymore, I do need a pick to remove rubble that blocks a corridor, dig around a door that's unopenable, create a shorter path to another part of the maze, and fill in pittraps. I have to admit to mining money if it's in a corridor ;)
If you need money and have a good pick, consider purchasing Find Treasure scrolls in town.
One thing I'd love to see is a compendium of every monster that drains stats so I can avoid them without finding out the hard way!
I normally like playing a gnome mage because the mage has better spells: Identify, Recharge Item, Haste Self, Stinking Cloud. Also, the Magic Shop shopkeeper is also a gnome, so he gives you better prices when you buy and sell wands and staves. Plus, having infravision kicks butt! The downside is it takes a LOT longer to increase levels; a gnome mage needs 62.5% more XPs to level up than a human warrior or human rogue. A half-elf/half-orc/halfling priest is a good char to play as that combo only needs 32% more XPs to level up than a human warrior.
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Ok, I haven't really used inscribe before, but I will now! Thanks. That solves my inventory problems.
Couple of quick questions..
What is a AMHD?
How do you fill in pit traps with a pick?
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AMHD, run while you still can. :) Ancient Multi-Hued Dragon. The (second) deadliest critter in the game? Generally because they can kill you from afar with out you knowing they were there. Detect evil/monster will protect you. (I cant remember if they are warm blooded or not, I assume they are so infra-vision may also save you. A dragon with enourmous hp, can breath anything, magic and speed. I have seen a mature one so far and I ran. You can kill them and they are ideed worth it, but one poison breath and it is usually good bye. Speed and column dancing will do the trick, if you can kill it quick enough. Generally dont try unless you dont care if you die or not. THis is the monster that I remember most from my early roguelike memories.
As for pit traps I just disarm them.
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Well, I can't wait to meet an AMHD. Ugh...
So, I've been staying around this level (1250 feet) since I found out that I can find stat potions. I ran into another invisble creature, and this was a total nightmare encounter for me. It was ridiculous. It went a little something like this...
(I'm skipping some lines before what I show below, that were basically it hitting me repeatedly and me trying to get away or hit it)
You have a scroll of phase door.
It makes a horrible wail.
You are suddenly afraid!
It touches you.
You feel your life draining away!
You are too afraid!
It makes a horrible wail.
It touches you.
You feel your life draining away!
It touches you.
You feel your life draining away!
You feel bolder now.
At this point I have no mana, I've forgotten a lot of spells, so I go for broke and cast a spell anyway (proceed past the gods will get angry warning...) cast sense invisible. I've already used both of my phase door scrolls, but this thing JUST WOULDN'T LEAVE ME ALONE.
You faint from fatigue!
You have damaged your health!
Your Two-Handed Sword (claymore) hits the Banshee.
The Banshee makes a horrible wail.
You are suddenly afraid!
The Banshee touches you.
You feel your life draining away!
(forced to cast remove fear with no mana)
You faint from fatigue
You have damaged your health!
You feel bolder now.
Your Two-Handed Sword (claymore) hits the Banshee.
The Banshee touches you.
You feel your life draining away!
(this pattern goes on until finally)
Your Two-Handed Sword (claymore) hits the Banshee
You have slain the Banshee.
So ya. Con is drained, didn't notice but my Dex had gotten drained earlier, and lost... about 6 levels to this thing. I made 12 trips back and forth to town (recall scrolls) before the shop FINALLY carried a restore life levels potion.
Oh ya. Forgot to post this earlier.
Kaleto--looked over your dump again and now I see the pick, haha, missed it the first time. Also, you have an Executioner's sword? And an axe. You always carry two backup weapons, or are those about to be sold?
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The Beaked Axe I carry is an ego weapon--Slay Dragon (SD). It does 4 times damage against dragons...a handy weapon to have when you're facing capital Ds.
The Executioner Sword I'm keeping for now because it will do on average 29 points damage on every hit (excluding strength and ring bonuses). And even though my Mace is an ego weapon--a Holy Avenger which does 2 times damage against evil and 3 times damage vs undead--it doesn't do much damage overall. So if I get the jump on a non-undead, non-dragon, tough creature like a purple worm, I'll use the Executioner Sword. But if I find a Holy Avenger that does more damage, I'll boost its to-hit and damage bonuses and dump the Executioner Sword so I'll have room to carry molds/mushrooms of unhealth. (If thrown at and hits a monster, a hairy mold does 10d10 and a mushroom does 10d12 damage, but not all monsters are affected, such as undead.)
The other bad thing about AMHDs is that they're resistant to fire, frost, acid, and electrical attacks. You know how a frost bolt against a red dragon does extra damage? Forget it against an AMHD. Unless you can increase your speed, you'll probably die the first time one uses its breath attack, so avoid these.
Want to find extra treasures? Hold onto any Clone Monster wands. When you come across a Gelatanous Cube, lure it into a big, cleared room, soften it up then use the wand right before you kill it to create another. Be advised that they pick up items and can absorb each other.
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Oh, one other thing--If you're ever attacked by some invisible creature, chances are it's undead. Use the Protection from Evil spell and any creatures lower than your level (a Banshee is 24th level) won't be able to attack you to drain your stats or experience.
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Because I am diving well below my level, I have found protection of evil almost useless :). Currently I am level 28 at dungeon level 40. Just farmed a rotting Q and levelled up about three times before I remembered I am not playing a scumming game. I have found a ring of see invisible and that rocks.
Alas I have only seen one ego weapon and that was a FT mace in the shops, even though I check nearly every weapon. Anyway I have switched to orb of draining as my primary attack against anything draining, however I have got deep enough for emperors type enemies now, and boy are they tough. Hopefully I can still reach level 50.
Here is my update, finally found a ego weapon, only SU but better than nothing, and it is a Claymore which is a handy bonus :). A ring of see invisible has up to now been a great benefit but I will replace it with damage or resistant now I have SU. My helm of infra-vision was a good find, as were my Gauntlets of Free Action, which are excellent against some of the higher undead. A Master Vampire can paralyze you then drain you like crazy. My only problem against higher undead now is speed and confusion. Hopefully a nice speed item will come along... Sometimes a level will generate 5-6 Ancient dragons, which I just hope will let me teleport away from them with out breathing. I actually allowed a AMHD 6 turns at me, before I realised what it was and teleported the hell away from it. Thankfully it didn't think to breath at me, as I dont have the hp to take on any Ancients at this stage.
Name : Roger Age : 18 STR : 18/20
Race : Human Height : 62 INT : 9
Sex : Male Weight : 175 WIS : 18/79
Class : Paladin Social Class : 81 DEX : 15
Title : Warder (2nd) CON : 15
CHR : 14
+ To Hit : 7 Level : 28 Max Hit Points : 249
+ To Damage : 13 Experience : 63496 Cur Hit Points : 249
+ To AC : 20 Max Exp : 63496 Max Mana : 71
Total AC : 44 Exp to Adv : 67500 Cur Mana : 59
Gold : 24831
(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Superb Stealth : Poor Perception : Bad
Bows/Throw : Superb Disarming : Good Searching : Poor
Saving Throw: Superb Magic Device: Excellent Infra-Vision: 50 feet
[Character's Equipment List]
a) You are wielding : a Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) (SU) (3d6) (+7,+8).
b) Worn on head : an Iron Helm of Infra-Vision [5,+3] (+5).
c) Worn around neck : an Amulet of Wisdom.
d) Worn on body : Leather Scale Mail (-1) [11,+8].
e) Worn on shield arm : a Large Metal Shield [5,+4].
f) Worn on hands : a Set of Gauntlets of Free Action [2,+4].
g) Right ring finger : a Ring of See Invisible.
h) Left ring finger : a Ring of Increase Damage (+2).
i) Worn about body : a Cloak [1,+0].
j) Light source is : a Brass Lantern with 13079 turns of light.
k) Secondary weapon : an Orcish Pick (1d3) (+0,+0) (+2).
[General Inventory List]
a) 3 Holy Books of Prayers [Beginners Handbook].
b) 3 Holy Books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom].
c) 3 Holy Books of Prayers [Chants and Blessings].
d) 3 Rations of Food.
e) a Mushroom of Restoration.
f) 2 Potions of Restore Life Levels.
g) 4 Scrolls of Word-of-Recall.
h) 2 Scrolls of Teleport Level.
i) 2 Scrolls of Identify.
j) a Wand of Lightning Bolts.
k) a Wand of Fire Bolts.
l) a Wand of Lightning Balls.
m) a Wand of Lightning Bolts.
n) a Wand of Teleport Away.
o) a Wand of Lightning Bolts.
p) a Staff of Sleep Monsters.
q) a Staff of Teleportation (6 charges).
r) a Staff of Curing.
s) a Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) (3d6).
t) a Broad Axe (2d6) (+0,+13).
u) a Ball and Chain (2d4).
v) a Mace (2d4).
Another update....I am now wearing a ring of fire resist, and combined with spell of fire/frost resist I can take on Ancient Red Dragons. I have killed about 5 of them so far. But it takes a long time, as I dont have the HP to kill them in one attack. Usually I have to portal about 5 times before I kill them. What I wouldn't give for a good SD weapon. Anyway killed a few emporer dudes, but there speed is killer.
Now I really need that ring of speed, and some invulrability potions to take on Mr B. (and die of course)
Every level is a slug fest, I should really stick to levels that are my own level. If I dont search for evil every new screen I would be screwed.
Onwards and downwards. Palidans sure take a lot of experience to level.
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I beat Moria yesterday. Easiest roguelike ever. :P
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Glad you're having fun with this character.
A couple suggestions: You're close to level 29, at which time you'll be able to learn the 1st spell (Prayer) in the 4th Holy Book of Prayers, so look for a couple in the shops.
I wouldn't bother carrying rations of food myself; I was always able to find enough food points by drinking and eating everything I come across that doesn't hurt me. Plus, you can always cast Create Food. If I were to carry any food, it would be Elvish Waybread.
I'd also carry potions of Cure Critical or at least Cure Serious (but not both, as that would waste a backpack slot). These will cure confusion and blindness--something Free Action doesn't protect you from.
Tips: You might come across Crowns. Many are worthless, but some can be ultra-powerful. Always identify them.
Dragons are evil, too, so if you find a SE weapon, it will do 2x damage against them; next best thing to using a SD on them. If you find a Frost wand, keep it for use against the red Ds, as they're susceptible to cold.
At level 29, your Protect from Evil spell will protect you from Vampires (but not Master Vs), White Wraiths, Banshees, Forest Wights, and some bad p's. At level 30 it will protect you from the young dragons (but not their breath weapon).
As you probably know, or will soon find out, Liches and Quasits drain dexterity, so finding a ring of Sustain Dexterity is a definite plus.
Save any potions of Restore Mana you come across. Liches can drain mana (and absorb wand/staff charges) to heal themselves. Plus, you'll need all the mana you can muster against the Balrog.
Why no bow?
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Well I died to a monster trap. It was ugly. Three guardian nagas and some invisibles.
Hah. I don't know how long this thread will last, but I'm going to keep posting logs and asking questions until it dies.
Name : Sir Gloom Age : 18 STR : 18
Race : Human Height : 76 INT : 9
Sex : Male Weight : 219 WIS : 13
Class : Paladin Social Class : 21 DEX : 15
Title : Keeper (2nd) CON : 16
CHR : 16
+ To Hit : 1 Level : 3 Max Hit Points : 48
+ To Damage : 3 Experience : 39 Cur Hit Points : 48
+ To AC : 1 Max Exp : 39 Max Mana : 4
Total AC : 11 Exp to Adv : 60 Cur Mana : 4
Gold : 186
(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Very Good Stealth : Poor Perception : Bad
Bows/Throw : Fair Disarming : Fair Searching : Poor
Saving Throw: Fair Magic Device: Fair Infra-Vision: 0 feet
Character Background
You are one of several children of a Guildsman. You are
the black sheep of the family. You have blue eyes, wavy
blond hair, and an average complexion.
[Character's Equipment List]
a) You are wielding : a Longsword (1d10) (+0,+0).
b) Worn on head : a Hard Leather Cap [2,+0].
c) Worn on body : Soft Leather Armor [4,+0].
d) Worn on hands : a Set of Leather Gloves [1,+0].
e) Worn on feet : a Pair of Soft Leather Boots [2,+0].
f) Worn about body : a Cloak [1,+0].
g) Light source is : a Wooden Torch with 1528 turns of light.
h) Secondary weapon : a Pick (1d3) (+0,+0) (+1).
[General Inventory List]
a) a Holy Book of Prayers [Beginners Handbook].
b) 9 Rations of Food.
c) a Flask of Oil.
d) a Purple Speckled Potion.
e) 2 Scrolls titled "".
f) a Set of Leather Gloves [1].
g) 8 Wooden Torches with 4000 turns of light.
So, a couple of newbie questions. :)
Just starting out 50 feet down, is it worth the time and inventory space to pick up everything and sell it back at town, or do you pretty much ignore everything until you get deeper?
I wasn't super happy with the stats I rolled. I spent about five minutes rerolling. How long do you guys re-roll? Will you hold out until you get a couple of 17's, 18's etc? Or do starting stats not really matter that much?
Is there any use for empty bottles? Rags? Broken weapons? Sticks? Or is that just random trash thrown into the game for flavor?
See ya next post!
~dreamician
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Glad you're having fun with this character.
Why no bow?
Because I just dont like using them. I generally use orb of draining and portals against drainers. This character had a heavy crossbow a few times.
Anyway our tips are good. Protection against evil is one of the most useful spells, but I am diving too deep to make it really useful. Master Vamps and even some Emperor types fall pretty quick to orb of draining. I sometimes have to portal away at least once with Emperors, but given a straight corridor they stand no chance.
I have given up killing Dragons at the moment, their blind, confusion spells really have made some close calls. Especially if I fail a portal at the wrong moment or run out of potions. I have gotten down to one hp once while fighting them and portalling to an AMHD. Just not worth it at the moment...
I am starting to find a number of Invulnerability potions, so I am also avoiding "branded" creatures.
Well I died to a monster trap. It was ugly. Three guardian nagas and some invisibles.
Hah. I don't know how long this thread will last, but I'm going to keep posting logs and asking questions until it dies.
I hope it lasts a while, I am having a lot of fun.
So, a couple of newbie questions. :)
Just starting out 50 feet down, is it worth the time and inventory space to pick up everything and sell it back at town, or do you pretty much ignore everything until you get deeper?
I wasn't super happy with the stats I rolled. I spent about five minutes rerolling. How long do you guys re-roll? Will you hold out until you get a couple of 17's, 18's etc? Or do starting stats not really matter that much?
~dreamician
I pick up everything I can and sell it. Except the useless stuff. That vould be thrown at enemies, but dont botther. You might as well throw oil instead. So ignore useless stuff. I sell all potions and scrolls found in early levels to id them. This will give you enough money to buy some scrolls and healling potions.
On re-rolling spending some time is beneficial, but really you should get 18s on the important stats. I.e wisdom for priests/palidans, str for warriors, int for magic users etc. If you make it to level 25 and have some time it does not really matter, but you need to get there first.
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Progress update:
I have got to dungeon level 50 (accidentally), but no sign of the Balrog yet, thankfully as I am in no condition to engage. I am really just hunting for speed items, ego weapons, crown of the magi, resistance armour, invulnerability and the occasional stat gain potion. Dragons are the only threat to me at the moment, and I only attack red and white ones, fleeing from the rest. Greater undead are really annoying, and I ran into my first Evil Iggy today, I choose to portal from him.
Anyway as long as I detect the Balrog before he sees me I should ok for now.
STR : 18/43
INT : 10
WIS : 18/70
DEX : 17
CON : 18
CHR : 16
You are using -
a) Wielding : a Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) (SU) (3d6) (+9,+11) {2 20.0 lb
b) On head : an Iron Helm of Infra-Vision [5,+3] (+5). 7.5 lb
c) Around neck : an Amulet of the Magi [+3] (+15). 0.3 lb
d) On body : Full Plate Armor (-3) [25,+2]. 38.0 lb
e) On arm : a Large Metal Shield [5,+2]. 12.0 lb
f) On hands : a Set of Gauntlets [2,+1]. 2.5 lb
g) On right hand : a Ring of Resist Cold. 0.2 lb
h) On left hand : a Ring of Resist Fire. 0.2 lb
i) On feet : a Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Slow Descent [3,+2]. 4.0 lb
j) About body : a Cloak [1,+0]. 1.0 lb
k) Light source : a Brass Lantern with 12204 turns of light. 5.0 lb
l) Spare weapon : a Broadsword (SD) (2d5) (+3,+5) {3}. 15.0 lb
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As a paladin, when I'm exploring a new level, every time the screen shifts I be sure to cast Detect Evil, Detect Traps, and Find Doors/Stairs. That way I never accidentally fall through a trap to the next level. That can be annoying if you're at 2450 feet and don't want to encounter the Balrog on the level below!
It's nice being able to see the dragons with infravision, eh? I always worry about the one I can't see and the screen says "It breathes gas" and my guy dies.
I reroll a char until he has a decent primary stat, at least 16. I also make sure none of his other stas are below 10, though. See, I know I'll load up on increase stat potions, and I hate playing a char with a low str, dex or con. Those are critical for staying alive. I'd rather start off as a mage or priest with all mediocre stats than one with a superhigh primary stat and the rest low. Sure, that primary stat is important early on, but later you'll wish the other ones were high. Be aware that char race will affect your starting stats.
Hey, dreamician--how do you manage having 2 scrolls titled ""?
In the beginning, it's important to get all the money you can so you can afford better armor and weapons, so I sell EVERYTHING of value. Food is cheap and money is scarce on the high levels. I also roll the drunks on the town level. But I tend to be cautious and don't go too deep early on. I spend a lot of time building my char up so he can survive attacks from the undead.
corremn--If I'm low on Cure Critical Wounds potions and engage a monster that can blind or confuse me, I fight them in a corridor. Save up those Heal potions!
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Well, I am balrog hunting now. I have not found a SE or HA so I am under powered.
I dont really think I will stand a chance with out speed or a better weapon. I really should of maxed out a weapon that I get multiple attacks with, oh well. Time to get smashed.
I have encountered the balrog a few times, and luckily have not been killed. Once however I met a Blue ancient dragon that confused me, destroyed my staff of curing in one of my turns. I realised I had no way of curing the confusion (no potions). Suddenly the Balrog appeared. I was screwed. I could not cast portal because of confusion. The dragon might of killed me anyway without the balrog appearing, so I had to drink a potion of invulnerability, that I have been saving up for the final encounter. I quaffed it, waited for confusion to go away, and blindness thanks to the balrog, read a scroll of recall and cast portal with 2 mana left. It hurt, but I managed to get away. Thanks to that encounter I now know much more about the Balrogs attacks.
I have been stocking up on critical healing potions ever since, staffs are next to useless due to its draining ability. I wont be able to depend of spells due to its mana absorb. So its down to melee and a few wand blasts before it drains them to. I will stash some wands around so I can pick them up and use them latter.
Wish me luck. I will give a full account of this game with a death/victory post.
Name : Roger Age : 18 STR : 18/43
Race : Human Height : 62 INT : 10
Sex : Male Weight : 175 WIS : 18/76
Class : Paladin Social Class : 81 DEX : 18/61
Title : Guardian CON : 18
CHR : 16
+ To Hit : 11 Level : 36 Max Hit Points : 387
+ To Damage : 14 Experience : 792804 Cur Hit Points : 270
+ To AC : 23 Max Exp : 792804 Max Mana : 91
Total AC : 64 Exp to Adv : 1012500 Cur Mana : 91
Gold : 115548
(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Superb Stealth : Poor Perception : Good
Bows/Throw : Superb Disarming : Excellent Searching : Fair
Saving Throw: Superb Magic Device: Superb Infra-Vision: 50 feet
Character Background
You are one of several children of a Titled Noble. You are
a credit to the family. You have brown eyes, straight
black hair, and an average complexion.
[Character's Equipment List]
a) Wielding : a Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) (SU) (3d6) (+9,+11)
b) On head : an Iron Helm of Infra-Vision [5,+3] (+5).
c) Around neck : an Amulet of the Magi [+3] (+15).
d) On body : Full Plate Armor (RA) (-3) [25,+5].
e) On arm : a Large Metal Shield [5,+1].
f) On hands : a Set of Gauntlets [2,-1].
g) On right hand : a Ring of Speed (+1).
h) On left hand : a Ring of Lordly Protection (FIRE) [+5].
i) On feet : a Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Slow Descent [3,+3].
j) About body : a Cloak [1,+1].
k) Light source : a Brass Lantern with 6816 turns of light.
l) Spare weapon : a Broadsword (SD) (2d5) (+7,+9)
[General Inventory List]
a) 5 Holy Books of Prayers [Beginners Handbook].
b) 6 Holy Books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom].
c) 4 Holy Books of Prayers [Chants and Blessings].
d) 5 Holy Books of Prayers [Exorcism and Dispelling].
e) a Mushroom of Unhealth.
f) a Mushroom of First-Aid.
g) 7 Potions of Invulnerability.
h) 3 Potions of Restore Mana.
i) 15 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds.
j) 6 Scrolls of Word-of-Recall.
k) 3 Scrolls of Genocide.
l) a Wand of Teleport Away.
m) a Wand of Cold Balls.
n) a Wand of Acid Balls.
o) a Wand of Wall Building.
p) a Wand of Fire Bolts.
q) a Wand of Polymorph.
r) a Molybdenum Wand {tried}.
s) a Thrusting Sword (Bilbo) (1d6).
Edit: Ha, checked about 5 levels and cant find the balrog but I did find a ring of speed :) Think I will call it a day.
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WooHoo!!
That balrog was a piece of cake ;D
#
#####
#
,,, $$$ ,,,
,,=$ "$$$$$" $=,,
,$$ $$$ $$,
*> <*> <*
$$ $$$ $$
"$$ $$$ $$"
"$$ $$$ $$"
*#########*#########*
*#########*#########*
Veni, Vidi, Vici!
I came, I saw, I conquered!
All Hail the Mighty King!
As soon as i decided to take on the balrog, I found two rings of speed and my only staff of speed. That combined with 9 potions of invulnerability, 4 powerful wands, 4 potions of restore mana d orb of draining was all I needed. Still had one potion of invulnerability left, but as you can see I did not notice when one ran out near the end and I had about 4 turns of possibly been turned in to toast.
I had both rings of speed equipped and no fire resist so as soon as I saw him I quaffed a potion of invulnerability, used my staff of speed and emptied all my wands into him, quaffing potions as they ran out. As soon as my wands gave out I started with orb of draining, after 4 rounds of quaffing mana potions and casting orb, the balrog finally died. My speed ran out near the end, but since I had no wands or staffs for him to drain it did not matter if I stood near him. Thankfully I he cast a few spells instead of attacking me near the end, as I let my skill return to normal. And with one final cast of orb of draining the balrog died. Damn thing didn't give me any cool treasure though. Everything went quite smoothly, I am not sure that it will always be the case (if he drained my mana more when I switched to spells then I dont know what would of happened, he did drain me once when I only had 5mp left, the fool.)
Here is a brief run down of how the game went.
First the initial levels I just dived down as quickly as I could, this really helps to get experience fast, as long as you stay alive. I resisted my natural urge to kill everything as I just killed things that would give my benefits. I descended down to the greater undead levels and found that portal and orb of draining are a mans best friend. However once I reached experience level 31 or so I gave up trying to level at all. Only potions of experience helped. I found about 5 of these. Once you find these, who cares about monster experience.
I was feeling quite cocky soon enough, knowing that the only thing that could kill me was a breath from a dragon or balrog. But with detect evil at every stage, they would not get me. I really just cast sense surroundings, detect evil, and detect traps/hidden doors, and just headed for the rooms that would be most profitable. I gave up exploring by normal means and just portalled around the level until I found treasure rooms or treasure monsters. This is how I found my rings of speed and staff of speed. Kind of just like level browsing, instead of exploring.
Rules I followed:
1/ Dive down quickly to level quickly.
2/ Don't bother about clearing levels, better items can be found deeper.
3/ Only kill monsters that give lots of experience or items.
4/ Avoid all stealing type monsters, draining type monsters and item destruction type monsters (unless they are covered by rule 3)
5/ Never get into a situation that can kill you. (I gave up killing Dragons very early because of this).
(of course you will find your self in many such situations, but always have an escape plan)
_______________________
/ \ ___
/ \ ___ / \ ___
/ RIP \ \ : : / \
/ \ : _;,,,;_ : :
/ Roger \,;_ _;,,,;_
| the | ___
| Magnificent | / \
| | : :
| *King* | _;,,,;_ ____
| Level : 76 | / \
| 5958249 Exp | : :
| 384529 Au | : :
| Died on Level : 0 | _;,,,,;_
| killed by |
| Ripe Old Age. |
| Thu Apr 08 |
*| * * * * * * | *
________)/\\_)_/___(\/___(//_\)/_\//__\\(/_|_)_______
The Balrog casts a spell.
The Black Sphere envelops several creatures!
The Black Sphere envelops several creatures!
The Balrog magically summons an undead!
Your skin returns to normal.
This is a genocide scroll.
You have 2 Scrolls of Genocide.
Your feel your head clear.
You have no more Potions of Restore Mana.
Your Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) hits the Orc Zombie.
Your Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) hits the Orc Zombie.
You have slain the Orc Zombie.
The Balrog casts a spell.
You resist the effects of the spell.
The Black Sphere envelops a creature!
The Black Sphere envelops a creature!
You have 3 Potions of Invulnerability.
Your skin turns into steel!
*** CONGRATULATIONS *** You have won the game.
You cannot save this game, but you may retire when ready.
The Black Sphere envelops a creature!
There is a scream of agony!
Name : Roger Age : 18 STR : 18/43
Race : Human Height : 62 INT : 10
Sex : Male Weight : 175 WIS : 18/76
Class : Paladin Social Class : 81 DEX : 18/61
Title : **KING** CON : 18
CHR : 16
+ To Hit : 11 Level : 76 Max Hit Points : 387
+ To Damage : 14 Experience : 5958249 Cur Hit Points : 387
+ To AC : 20 Max Exp : 5958249 Max Mana : 91
Total AC : 61 Exp to Adv : ******* Cur Mana : 91
Gold : 384529
(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Superb Stealth : Poor Perception : Good
Bows/Throw : Superb Disarming : Superb Searching : Fair
Saving Throw: Superb Magic Device: Superb Infra-Vision: 50 feet
Character Background
You are one of several children of a Titled Noble. You are
a credit to the family. You have brown eyes, straight
black hair, and an average complexion.
[Character's Equipment List]
a) You are wielding : a Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) (SU) (3d6) (+9,+11) {2}.
b) Worn on head : an Iron Helm of Infra-Vision [5,+3] (+5).
c) Worn around neck : an Amulet of the Magi [+3] (+15).
d) Worn on body : Full Plate Armor (RA) (-3) [25,+5].
e) Worn on shield arm : a Large Metal Shield [5,+1].
f) Worn on hands : a Set of Gauntlets [2,+1].
g) Right ring finger : a Ring of Speed (+1).
h) Left ring finger : a Ring of Speed (+1).
i) Worn on feet : a Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Slow Descent [3,+3].
j) Worn about body : a Cloak [1,+1].
k) Light source is : a Brass Lantern with 14463 turns of light.
l) Secondary weapon : a Broadsword (SD) (2d5) (+7,+9) {3}.
[General Inventory List]
a) 5 Holy Books of Prayers [Beginners Handbook].
b) 6 Holy Books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom].
c) 5 Holy Books of Prayers [Chants and Blessings].
d) 5 Holy Books of Prayers [Exorcism and Dispelling].
e) a Mushroom of Unhealth.
f) a Mushroom of First-Aid.
g) 1 Potions of Invulnerability.
h) a Potion of Super Heroism.
i) 16 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds.
j) 2 Scrolls of Word-of-Recall.
k) 2 Scrolls of Genocide.
l) a Scroll of Mass Genocide.
m) 7 Scrolls of Identify.
n) a Wand of Teleport Away (4 charges).
o) a Wand of Cold Balls (0 charges).
p) a Wand of Acid Balls (0 charges).
q) a Wand of Fire Bolts (9 charges).
r) a Wand of Drain Life (0 charges).
s) a Wand of Acid Balls (0 charges).
t) a Staff of Speed (0 charges).
u) a Staff of Curing (5 charges).
v) a Ring of Lordly Protection (FIRE) [+5].
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Kaleto.. Hah, not sure how that happened. Must have been a copy/paste error on my part.
Corem - awesome job. I'm still working my way slowly down. Too cautious to dive fast. Heh.
I'll post an update soon.
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Corem - awesome job. I'm still working my way slowly down. Too cautious to dive fast. Heh.
Yeah well I guess I forget that I have 5 years of game play knowledge stored in my memory somewhere. It was really was interesting how I instantly knew how to approach every monster even though I have not played for 10+ years.
I completely changed my play style from my previous games, I guess once you have time to reflect on it (10 years) you can easily come up with an easy win strategy. Of course I was extremely lucky with the speed items late in the game.
Initially I found it hard to go against my ingrained need to clear every level and kill every monster, but once I had a few close calls with 'D's I realised my errors. Now I need to play a game that rewards killing everything.
Good luck all, I am retiring again from Moria.
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Have I mentioned how much I hate black dragon bats? It's a real problem trying to keep your armor intact when you don't have any speed items.
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Coremmn,
Before you take off for good, what other roguelikes are you playing these days?
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Lately I have only been playing Crawl stone soup, and I probably will go back to crawl soon enough since the new version is out. I find it a lot harder than moria, but has a lot more diversity and has one of the best interfaces going around. This is a game I will be playing for years I think.
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Corremn (sorry I misspelled your name last post)
Heh, your name reminds me of Prince Corum (Michael Moorcock).
Anyway, cool beans. I have Crawl downloaded, and when I get around to playing it, I'll start a thread. See you then.
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Once you try crawl it is hard to go back.
Moorcock hmm, never heard of him. Any good?
"I need Moorcock here! Can anyone find me Moorcock."
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Ah, Michael Moorcock. Creator of Elric of Melnibone. Great books.
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I haven't found any permanent speed items, but I think this guy's ready to take on the Balrog:
Name : p1 Age : 27 STR : 18/100
Race : Half-Elf Height : 76 INT : 18/100
Sex : Male Weight : 137 WIS : 18/100
Class : Paladin Social Class : 54 DEX : 18/100
Title : Chevalier CON : 18/100
CHR : 18/100
+ To Hit : 24 Level : 37 Max Hit Points : 449
+ To Damage : 30 Experience : 1647717 Cur Hit Points : 449
+ To AC : 70 Max Exp : 1647717 Max Mana : 149
Total AC : 110 Exp to Adv : 2175000 Cur Mana : 149
Gold : 428720
(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Superb Stealth : Good Perception : Fair
Bows/Throw : Superb Disarming : Excellent Searching : Fair
Saving Throw: Superb Magic Device: Superb Infra-Vision: 50 feet
Character Background
Your mother was a High-Elf. You are one of several
children of a Yeoman. You are a well liked child. You
have blue eyes, straight brown hair, and an average
complexion.
[Character's Equipment List]
a) You are wielding : a Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) (HA) (3d6) (+10,+18) [+2] (+1 to STR) {4}.
b) Worn on head : a Metal Cap of Infra-Vision [3,+10] (+3).
c) Worn around neck : an Amulet of the Magi [+3] (+10).
d) Worn on body : Ribbed Plate Armor (RF) (-3) [28,+10].
e) Worn on shield arm : a Medium Metal Shield (RA) [4,+10].
f) Worn on hands : a Set of Leather Gloves of Slaying (+2,+3) [1,+10].
g) Right ring finger : a Ring of Increase Damage (+3).
h) Left ring finger : a Ring of Increase To-Hit (+6).
i) Worn on feet : a Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Stealth [3,+10] (+2).
j) Worn about body : a Cloak [1,+10].
k) Light source is : a Brass Lantern with 8860 turns of light.
l) Secondary weapon : a Battle Axe (Balestarius) (SD) (2d8) (+10,+16).
[General Inventory List]
a) 5 Holy Books of Prayers [Beginners Handbook].
b) 5 Holy Books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom].
c) 4 Holy Books of Prayers [Chants and Blessings].
d) 4 Holy Books of Prayers [Exorcisms and Dispellings].
e) 32 Mushrooms of Restoration.
f) 22 Potions of Restore Mana.
g) 18 Potions of Invulnerability.
h) 13 Potions of Restore Life Levels.
i) 10 Potions of Haste Self.
j) 13 Potions of Healing.
k) 15 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds.
l) 2 Scrolls of Word-of-Recall.
m) 9 Scrolls of Identify {0}.
n) a Wand of Stinking Cloud (34 charges).
o) a Wand of Lightning Balls (10 charges).
p) a Staff of Dispel Evil (12 charges).
q) a Staff of Speed (24 charges).
r) a Ring of Sustain Dexterity.
s) a Ring of Lordly Protection (FIRE) [+5].
t) a Gnomish Shovel (1d2) (+10,+2) (+7) {1}.
u) a Composite Bow (x4) (+10,+10) {2}.
v) 20 Arrows of Slay Animal (1d4) (+10,+12).
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18 potions of invulnerability will do it, total overkill :) Balrog wont stand a chance.
Just make sure you notice when your skin turns to normal.
I look forward to your (inevitable) victory :)
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If anyone's interested, just to keep the Moria legend alive 5 years after this guy moved on, I went through the same thing in this thread...
http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=4454.0