Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Announcements => Traditional Roguelikes (Turn Based) => Topic started by: getter77 on January 07, 2010, 10:52:40 PM
-
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/games/media/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802585503f6/
http://www.ubergeekgames.com/dungeonadventure.html
Behold the 360's first Roguelike! 8)
:stalks out for a hopeful Windows PC port sometime:
-
I've played about 10 games of Dungeon Adventure. Although the game is designed to look like a Roguelike, there is very little to suggest it actually is one. For instance.
Creatures in most/all roguelikes I've played are generated like a D&D monster. Their HPs are rolled based on a format for each monster. This game seems to determine monster stats based on YOUR Str/Lvl/HPs. Whats worse is that the levels were not hashed out very well either, so for instance. A bat at first level is easy to beat. But if you gain strength and levels, you'll find a bat suddenly becomes much more difficult to beat. Thus its the first roguelike I've ever played that penalized you for experience.
There are 6 scrolls, 4 potions, 4 rings, 6-10 monsters, piles of food and GP, and mundane weapons/armor. Thats it. Period!
If you know the history of roguelikes, you know that the ASCII graphics were not used because ASCII is cool. They were a necessity because the data structures for player/monsters/items/dungeon level used up so much of the 16k or 32k array memory that you were left with virtually nothing for graphics. Well that and the fact that most of the mainframes the original roguelikes appeared on didn't really support graphics.
So basically the ascii graphics were used because the games for the time were too complex. This is definately not the case with this game. A half dozen monsters. Races, Sexes, and Character classes that are meaningless. No traps. No Doors. No Secret Doors. No special abilities, No special attacks, No special monster attacks or abilities. No ranged weapons. No wands, staffs, weapon modifiers, armor modifiers, shopkeeprs, special rooms. Although one of the scrolls does enchant armor. But that just puts the word enchanted next to your armor. It doesn't actually seem to improve your armor. Get the picture? This game is a roguelike in cosmetics only.
Infact. The character stats besides STR and HP seem to be completely meaningless. There is agility but it doesn't seem to affect combat noticeably. Then again it's hard to tell since as mentioned above raising your Str or HPs works against you.
So what are we left with? A game that attempts to exploit the roguelike genre for quick cash. At least at this point.
That being said I rated it a 4/5, and paid for it. Hopefully the writer will relize that the idea isn't just a quick way of jiving some cash out of roguelike fans, but a genuine underutilized genre that is in desperate need of a GOOD game.
-
This game does share one quality with most roguelikes though. It's very buggy.
Also you get about 10 to 15 minutes worth of playtime before you ALWAYS starve to death. Mathematically the levels are far to large for the amount of food generated. Real novice stuff.
-
From what I've seen elsewhere, the developer has been collecting feedback and such with the intention of updates/fixes and such at some point and over time in general---in part based on continued feedback and sales though.
It will be interesting to see how the direct competitor, ASCII Quest, does things differently with this extra month or so they've intentionally pushed release back in order to add polish and depth.
-
If you know the history of roguelikes, you know that the ASCII graphics were not used because ASCII is cool.
Sure, but it ended up growing on a lot of people, and now there are some who prefer ASCII. I'm not one of them, but they certainly exist, and they may well be the majority of roguelike players.
-
Sure, but it ended up growing on a lot of people, and now there are some who prefer ASCII. I'm not one of them, but they certainly exist, and they may well be the majority of roguelike players.
All hail ASCII! Purge the heretics!
Fenrir gnaws viciously but ineffectively on Vanguard's leg.
-
If you know the history of roguelikes, you know that the ASCII graphics were not used because ASCII is cool.
Sure, but it ended up growing on a lot of people, and now there are some who prefer ASCII. I'm not one of them, but they certainly exist, and they may well be the majority of roguelike players.
ASCII is dead. Long live ANSI! I remember when corridors used to be #. Bleh!
-
SPOILER ALERT
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
On my 11th game of Dungeon Adventure I discovered a 5th potion. Obviously there are still a couple of things I've yet to see generated in this game. So here is my attempt to document a complete item list.
Potions
----------
Potion of Strength - Increases players Str stat.
Potion of Healing - 10Hps restored.
Potion of Great Healing - double strength healing potion.
Potion of Skill - Raises your Lvl by 1.
Potion of Sickness - Does some damage.
Scrolls
--------
Scroll of Identity - Identifies Rings, Potions, and Scrolls. (Weapons and Armor have no magic attributes, curses or bonuses.)
Scroll of Sleep - Puts you to sleep for around 8 turns.
Enchant Armor - Puts the word enchanted next to your armor. (Doesn't actually improve your armor stats.)
Magic Mapping - Shows you how buggy the games map generation is.
Remove Curse - Allows you to remove the Ring of Weakness.
Freeze Monster - Stops visible monsters for a while.
Rings
-------
Ring of Weakness - The only cursed item I've found so far. Lowers Str by 5.
Ring of Strength - Raises Str by 5.
Ring of Agility - Raises Agl. No noticeable effect.
Ring of Defense - Raises your Armor rating. Works the same as EXP. Tougher you are, tougher every monster is.
Weapons
------------
Mace - Starting weapon
Iron Sword - Found on Lvl 2 - 6.
Armor
--------
Leather Armor - Starting armor.
Ring Mail
Banded Mail
Chain Mail
That's it besides generic food and gold parcels. If you've found something else, please add it to the list.
-
Creatures in most/all roguelikes I've played are generated like a D&D monster. Their HPs are rolled based on a format for each monster. This game seems to determine monster stats based on YOUR Str/Lvl/HPs. Whats worse is that the levels were not hashed out very well either, so for instance. A bat at first level is easy to beat. But if you gain strength and levels, you'll find a bat suddenly becomes much more difficult to beat. Thus its the first roguelike I've ever played that penalized you for experience.
There are 6 scrolls, 4 potions, 4 rings, 6-10 monsters, piles of food and GP, and mundane weapons/armor. Thats it. Period!
That sucks!
-
That being said I rated it a 4/5, and paid for it.
Why did you rate it 4 out of 5? Didn't you just say you hated it?
-Ido.
-
That being said I rated it a 4/5, and paid for it.
Why did you rate it 4 out of 5? Didn't you just say you hated it?
-Ido.
Hated it? The author is attempting to make a console Roguelike. I'm absolutely thrilled. I'm not happy that the release was rushed out the door as soon as it started looking like a Roguelike. But I still wanted to support the author and give it a rating based on how happy I am that it's being attempted by someone. I did rate it a 1 at first, but felt that sent the wrong message.
But you're right. It does sound like I absolutely hate it from my posts. So let me take a second to tell you what I like about it.
The music and ambience is very good.
The way the game is laid out and the way the controler is used is good.
I like the attract mode which reminds me of the Angband borg. If you don't pay too much attention.
Neat to see David Gervais's tileset on the xbox360.
Okay you might be right. That is little to go on. I noticed the game rating has gone from 4.5 down to 3.5. I wonder if others are rethinking their high ratings.
-
I forgot to do a monster list.
Spoiler Alert (not)
---------------
Monster - Monster appears in the game with several names. Bat, Emu, Vampire, Hobgoblin, Centaur. Monster's stats are based on your stats, so monster can be killed easily at level* 2 or 3, even if it's name is Vampire. But by level* 5 or 6, monster named Bat can smoke your butt. Monsters movement is one space per turn. Monster has no special attacks, no special defenses. Monster is rather stupid. Monster can not figure out how to move SW if it's only exit is diagonal and I'm 1 space south and 2 spaces west.
*That's player level. Dungeon level seems irrelevant at this point. I started a game and had to head downstairs from single issolated rooms (a product of poor map generation), and ended up on Lvl 6 before having my first fight. Level 6 seemed the same as Level 1 when I was Level 1.
-
It will be interesting to see how the direct competitor, ASCII Quest, does things differently with this extra month or so they've intentionally pushed release back in order to add polish and depth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sz5dh8hQAM
From the early screens it looks about a billion times better. But please god! at least give us an Ansi option!!
After seeing this, my guess is that Dungeon Adventure was released in it's developmental state in order to be first. Probably assuming that once ASCII quest was released they'd probably get 0 sales. Probably right!
-
Why did you rate it 4 out of 5? Didn't you just say you hated it?
He is probably the guy who made that game. "Hey, have you heard about this game.."
-
[edit]
-
http://xblaratings.com/developer-qaa/1791-dungeon-adventure-developer-interview
Interview with the developer that should have everything make MUCH more sense in terms of his background and where he was coming from approach wise, at least this time around.
-
http://xblaratings.com/developer-qaa/1791-dungeon-adventure-developer-interview
Interview with the developer that should have everything make MUCH more sense in terms of his background and where he was coming from approach wise, at least this time around.
Clearer if it made any sense. As I said on another board. Saying "I designed the game to be simple, so non hardcore gamers could get into it" is complete nonsense. Show me a roguelike besides Omega that has an overly complicated commandset for moving and picking up items? Make suicide runs with ANY well programmed roguelike and you'll have a better game than this one.
Further how does making the game simple account for making it bland? Previously I posted complete monster, item, weapon & armor lists. That isn't simple. That is simply early development.
What I have no trouble in believing is that the author's only experience with Roguelikes is a cellphone version of Rogue. But, if he were SO addicted to it, why didn't he learn/understand that Leveling up in a Roguelike is supposed to make the game easier. At least until you head to a deeper level and encounter new tougher monsters? Not the same monsters that simply become stronger than you as you level up.
As I said I still want to support this guy, but I wouldn't buy anything else from this gamehouse until I see some proof that he has learned the true characteristics of a classic roguelike.
-
Lol, after reading the author of Dungeon Adventure's explanation, I set out to prove that he infact doesn't even know his own game. As an added bonus I doubled my previous high score. Here's how I did it.
I avoided as much combat as possible.
I avoided all items except the curse ring which lowers your Strength.
I took every set of stairs as soon as I found it.
With that strategy I was able to make Level 13 of the Dungeon. 5 levels deeper than all previous attempts.
Therefore I hearby rename this game. Stair Search. (with Ed McMahon)
-
The part that perked my eyebrows the most had to be his first introduction, and seemingly only mentioned one, to be what I think was iRogue---the very first "Rogue" port/version the iPhone received and it was very....not looked favorably upon....and as it turned out the Roguelike slate on iPhone proper REALLY got started with RogueTouch a bit later and now there's so many more.
So, even if he was trying to stay in the, er, shadow of something that I don't know is capable of casting one, iRogue, wouldn't logic dictate that other iPhone offerings and perhaps PC offerings would've followed and colored his notions in a wee bit more?
I hope the developer comes to investigate Roguelikes a bit more conclusively as opposed to seemingly thinking he'd struck gold fomr iRogue and all others are just derivatives. I mean, if he'd used Google even a single time I'm pretty sure the top many search results would've exposed a great deal more. 9 months on this versus many 7DRL's but to the latter's credit they've a more logical cohesion and vision going on.
-
The part that perked my eyebrows the most had to be his first introduction, and seemingly only mentioned one, to be what I think was iRogue---the very first "Rogue" port/version the iPhone received and it was very....not looked favorably upon....and as it turned out the Roguelike slate on iPhone proper REALLY got started with RogueTouch a bit later and now there's so many more.
So, even if he was trying to stay in the, er, shadow of something that I don't know is capable of casting one, iRogue, wouldn't logic dictate that other iPhone offerings and perhaps PC offerings would've followed and colored his notions in a wee bit more?
I hope the developer comes to investigate Roguelikes a bit more conclusively as opposed to seemingly thinking he'd struck gold fomr iRogue and all others are just derivatives. I mean, if he'd used Google even a single time I'm pretty sure the top many search results would've exposed a great deal more. 9 months on this versus many 7DRL's but to the latter's credit they've a more logical cohesion and vision going on.
Well said!
-
There's an update to various things now in peer review, and he seems enthused towards it and quite possibly the notion of a sequel due to good sales thus far.
-
2 weeks to improve Dungeon Adventure. I'm highly suspicious that the author has probably spent that time tweaking a game that is at it's foundation flawed. Rather than rebuilding it from the ground up. Until the Author spends some time understanding how a good roguelike functions there is little reason to re-purchase this title.
-
I'm slightly surprised at the ferocity of the critics.
Usually Roguelikes either get praise or no response at all (which some of them do not deserve). And yet here is a game that gets so much Nonstop Flak which makes me wonder: Is this the worst Roguelike to have ever been made or what spawned this religious zeal to dismantle it?
-
I'm slightly surprised at the ferocity of the critics.
Usually Roguelikes either get praise or no response at all (which some of them do not deserve). And yet here is a game that gets so much Nonstop Flak which makes me wonder: Is this the worst Roguelike to have ever been made or what spawned this religious zeal to dismantle it?
The problem lies in the fact that it cosmetically imitates a Roguelike but when put to the test really bares no resemblence to how a traditional roguelike works. What the author attempted to do was to recreate a monster leveling progression similar to those seen in a linear RPG. Granted it's about the most basic attempt at that I've ever seen, but the attempt was made. Then take in to account we have Healers that don't heal. Ninjas that don't Ninj. Six monsters and under 20 items to discover. Most of which are purely cosmetic and either don't effect your character or effect your character negatively. You end up with something that is a bit of Con.
-
The v1.1 now apparently available.
-
The v1.1 now apparently available.
Seems to be a weapon or two added, and a few bug fixes like the format of the highscore board, the scroll of enchant armor actually affects your armor stats now. That being said, tightening up those issues makes the flaws in design that much more noticable. The game I played had 6 raise level potions on the first level, and I was easily taken down by a bat by the time I hit level 2.
Remember that unlike most roguelikes this game uses your stats to create its one generic monster (with differen't names). So as noted before, may be the first roguelike that weakens you as you gain experience/equipment.
At least the update was free.
-
Remember that unlike most roguelikes this game uses your stats to create its one generic monster (with differen't names). So as noted before, may be the first roguelike that weakens you as you gain experience/equipment.
Elona used to have the game get quite a bit harder as you levelled up, and IVAN punishes you for wearing better equipment. In the former it was a massive design flaw, and the latter is just sadism, but Dungeon Adventure is certainly not the first.
-
I don't really understand why anyone would want to play a roguelike on a gaming platform anyway. The only reasons I could imagine one would want to play any game on a console are that there aren't any system requirements to be met, and it's easier to play with friends, but roguelikes, lacking sophisticated graphics (if they have any), don't require much in the way of hardware, and they are typically single-player affairs.
-
Remember that unlike most roguelikes this game uses your stats to create its one generic monster (with differen't names). So as noted before, may be the first roguelike that weakens you as you gain experience/equipment.
Elona used to have the game get quite a bit harder as you levelled up, and IVAN punishes you for wearing better equipment. In the former it was a massive design flaw, and the latter is just sadism, but Dungeon Adventure is certainly not the first.
As I said. This may be the first roguelike that weakens you as you gain exp/equip. As in, all experience, all items work negatively (except the one cursed item). My quote about characters stats being used to create monster stats used the word most.
EDIT - Actually I'm wrong. The game has 2 healing potions, a magic mapping and freeze monster scroll. So there are actually a few items that provide benifits to the player. Still mathematically the game doesn't make sense. It's like having the size and strength of a two year old, and by the time you're 18 everybody on the planet is the size of a Titan and walking around with a vorpal sword.
-
I don't really understand why anyone would want to play a roguelike on a gaming platform anyway. The only reasons I could imagine one would want to play any game on a console are that there aren't any system requirements to be met, and it's easier to play with friends, but roguelikes, lacking sophisticated graphics (if they have any), don't require much in the way of hardware, and they are typically single-player affairs.
Location, comfort. While my computer chair is comfortable enough, many peoples ideal gaming comfort zone is near their console.
-
I don't really understand why anyone would want to play a roguelike on a gaming platform anyway. The only reasons I could imagine one would want to play any game on a console are that there aren't any system requirements to be met, and it's easier to play with friends, but roguelikes, lacking sophisticated graphics (if they have any), don't require much in the way of hardware, and they are typically single-player affairs.
Location, comfort. While my computer chair is comfortable enough, many peoples ideal gaming comfort zone is near their console.
Also, games generally unique to the platform like the Shiren games and many others...though emulation helps this somewhat it still has a ways to go across the board. I'm thoroughly hoping all the iPhone Roguelikes get PC ports as well for instance as some very nifty things are happening there.
-
Dungeon Adventure is not the first or only roguelike for the Xbox360. I was looking through the 360 game library yesterday when I came across the Sega Genesis collection. I searched the game list, and was very happy to see Fatal Labyrinth. One of the first home console roguelikes, and the predecessor to the Fushigi no Dungeon series.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/genesis/review/R108782.html
Personally I consider this game the first home console roguelike.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_to_Apshai
http://www.mobygames.com/game/colecovision/gateway-to-apshai/screenshots
I had it for the colecovision, and even though the dungeon levels were not actually created randomly. They were created with a random number generator seed, which meant that as long as you changed the seed, you got a differen't dungeon.
Regardless, I feel relieved that Dungeon Adventure can't claim to be the first 360 roguelike.
-
There's a roguelike for the Sega Genesis? I own that console! I'll have to see if I can get my hands on a copy of Fatal Labyrinth.
-
Well, that's really splitting at hairs since compilation ports don't really count. In terms of release, Dungeon Adventure was the first 360 BASED Roguelike....though I wonder if development on the yet to be released ASCII Quest started first?
In terms of Fatal Labyrinth, somewhat before that was the SegaMasterSystem/Gamegear Dragon Crystal...which has the same mannerisms yet more primitive in execution.
What I can't tell you, is why the franchise died off after being successful enough warrant follow ups. A fair bit later, the Fushigi Dungeon series came about via Chunsoft instead and history rolls on from there.
-
Well, that's really splitting at hairs since compilation ports don't really count. In terms of release, Dungeon Adventure was the first 360 BASED Roguelike....though I wonder if development on the yet to be released ASCII Quest started first?
In terms of Fatal Labyrinth, somewhat before that was the SegaMasterSystem/Gamegear Dragon Crystal...which has the same mannerisms yet more primitive in execution.
What I can't tell you, is why the franchise died off after being successful enough warrant follow ups. A fair bit later, the Fushigi Dungeon series came about via Chunsoft instead and history rolls on from there.
Forgot about Dragon Crystal, which was an earlier and even more basic version of Fatal Labyrinth.
At any rate, the price of the Sega Genesis Collection for the PS3 and 360 has now dropped to $20.00 at Walmart. Not a bad price for 40 classic genesis titles.