Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Game Discussion => Traditional Roguelikes (Turn-based) => Topic started by: Zambaku on January 03, 2010, 01:14:51 PM
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I would like some tips on some roguelikes that has a somewhat easy interface, kinda like POWDER.
Roguelikes I've tried:
Nethack - Honestly, I hated it...I didn't like the pet feature, and the interface was way to complicated for me...I could never figure out how to even cast spells XD
Zangband - Pretty fun actually. Good balance. The only thing I didn't like was that the dungeon floors reset so I was farming the first floor on money and worms for exp simly by running up and down the first stairs untill I'm about level 20.
POWDER - My favorite so far, easy to get into, and easy controls which I like. And the ability to make your own tileset makes it even better! Though it lacks something which I can't put my finger on...=/
DoomRL - Fun when you don't have anything to do =)
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You might want to try the Roguelikes by our dear Slashie;
DrashRL and Castlevania (Link (http://slashie.net/news.php)) are both well rounded and have some interesting concepts too them.
Also I'm not exactly sure about what your gripes with certain interfaces are but if you haven't tried it, give Dungeon Crawl Stonesoup (http://crawl-ref.sourceforge.net/) a try. Yes, it does have a complex interface but it goes to great lengths to streamline it and a lot of neat features make it oh so comfortable to play (I love the o key... auto explore <3 ). There's also a neat Tutorial for it.
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Hm, I remember playing Drash. Didn't see what was so roguelike about it, the maps seemed static >_>
Going to try out Castlevania =)
Add: Hm, CastlevaniaRL was pretty interesting, but very buggy...Enemies can place themselves over you so you can't attack but they can...And enemies can attack diagonaly and you cant?>_>
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If I remember correctly, pressing 5 on the num pad will attack enemies positioned on top of you in CVRL. You can attack and move diagonally the same as enemies can, and you'll generally have better range than them to boot.
I'll try to think of a good beginner's roguelike.
Edit:
Alright, maybe you'll like one of these two. They both have persistent levels and graphics so it's easier to figure out what's going on at first.
Castle of the Winds (http://www.exmsft.com/~ricks/) (the link is near the bottom of the page) was one of the first roguelikes I played. The interface is easy, the difficulty is merciful by roguelike standards, and the game itself isn't bad either.
Ragnarok (http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/ragnarok.htm) is another old favorite of mine. You can use the mouse for the interface if you want, and the buttons are clearly labeled. Bear in mind that an easy interface doesn't mean the game itself is easy. Until you learn all the tricks, Ragnarok is brutal. You will probably need to use DOSBox to get it running.
Edit 2:
Have you tried Larn? That one uses ASCII graphics and has persistent levels. It's shorter than CotW and Ragnarok. The difficulty is easier than average for a roguelike, but if you win, it gets harder for the next time.
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Hm, I remember playing Drash. Didn't see what was so roguelike about it, the maps seemed static >_>
The first map is static, the rest of them are randomly generated
Add: Hm, CastlevaniaRL was pretty interesting, but very buggy...Enemies can place themselves over you so you can't attack but they can...And enemies can attack diagonaly and you cant?>_>
Interesting, most people seem not to use the numpad to walk and attack diagonally. :P
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Interesting, most people seem not to use the numpad to walk and attack diagonally. :P
Many people are on laptops. Even when I use my external keyboard I normally use the 4 arrow keys under the del/eng/pg down row, unless I really *have* to use diagonals.
-Ido.
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Same here.
Laptops and Roguelikes just don't blend that well.
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I don't bother playing roguelikes if I can't use numpad. I'm a perfectionist, if I have to spend 2 turns to cut a corner, when I COULD'VE done it in 1 turn, I can't enjoy the experience! :-) Even considered buying a USB-numpad to use with my laptop.
I was going to suggest Stone Soup Dungeon Crawl too. It's not that it is easy, but it is simple to understand. I too "hated" Nethack (although it was the first roguelike I ever tried, and I WISHED I could understand it, or have the patience to enjoy it, but it felt overwhelming) and once I started finding roguelikes with colored ascii, I never tried nethack again.
Anyway, Stone Soup Dungeon Crawl, and also I can reccomend this game: http://roguelikefiction.com/ I haven't gotten far in it, but it is simple to understand, simple to learn the controls and pretty intriguing since it's like a novel :)
Have fun exploring the world of roguelikes
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If you play roguelikes on a laptop, just use hjklyubn. It seems strange at first but after about an hour it becomes second nature.
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You can attack enemies on top of you, just press whatever the center key is, 5 on numpad.(CVRL)
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well, if you want a rogue-like dungeon crawler that's easy to use and get into,
i'd suggest my game, Random Realms.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=178942&b=5 (http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=178942&b=5)
you can set the difficulty, and even the number of levels you need to complete to get to the end...whether you beat the big bad guy is up to you.
it is designed to be streamlined , and the comands are simple, and help files are available.
there's a full magic system, infinite treasures, and no curses!
try it out, it's definitely designed for people interested in the roguelike genre,
who haven't gotten into the really complicated, difficult games.
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I recommend you to try Brogue. Simple yet advanced, ascii yet beautiful 8)
http://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/ (http://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/)
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Regarding easy to learn interface, I have of course to suggest to try LambdaRogue (http://lambdarogue.net) . (There's also a nice "let's play" video on YouTube, linked at http://lambdarogue.net/dl-showentry.php?n=200 )
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I recommend you to try Brogue. Simple yet advanced, ascii yet beautiful 8)
http://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/ (http://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/)
Agreed. Brogue requires a much smaller number of keys than most roguelikes. The streamlined interface goes further; you can even use the mouse for most things if you'd like. Clicking on items or creatures for instance will tell you all about them and how they work (assuming you've identified whatever the item is). This includes incredibly useful information when looking at a creature. What is the least number of hits it could kill me in, and what special powers does it have, and so forth.
I dabble in other roguelikes, but I keep going back to brogue because the interface doesn't get in my way.
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I'll second (third?) BRogue. Looks great, you can play with the mouse, and the list of controls are quite limited.
It also has a nice "less is more" feeling.
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I'll second (third?) BRogue. Looks great, you can play with the mouse, and the list of controls are quite limited.
It also has a nice "less is more" feeling.
Huh, that's the first time I've seen Brogue emphasized like that. Makes me wonder, is there an "ARogue"?
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Closest name I can come up with is Atrogue. (http://atrogue.sourceforge.net/)
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I'll second (third?) BRogue. Looks great, you can play with the mouse, and the list of controls are quite limited.
It also has a nice "less is more" feeling.
Huh, that's the first time I've seen Brogue emphasized like that. Makes me wonder, is there an "ARogue"?
In fact, there is ARogue (Advanced Rogue), one of the originally lost rogue clones. Brogue, however, has nothing to do with that, it's a pun on the dev's name.
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Well, this is an old topic, but I can't really let this opportunity pass me by . . .
http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/QuickHack (http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/QuickHack)
This is my most recent project, QuickHack. I wanted a quick, simple RougeLike that had almost a Gauntlet feel to it. So I made one. Enough depth to allow for meaningful choices, but very easy to sink your teeth into.
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Hey, a nice topic. There could be Grogue about pirates, Frogue about frogs, Mrogue about morgues, and so on.
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Wrogue about wizards?
Crogue about cave men? Cro Magnon?
Drogue about...
Erogue about email spam
Hrogue, or herogue, about He-Man.
Wait, that last one is actually awesome. Where's my He-Man roguelike? What's the cooldown on battlecat?
-Jo
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This is my most recent project, QuickHack. I wanted a quick, simple RougeLike that had almost a Gauntlet feel to it. So I made one. Enough depth to allow for meaningful choices, but very easy to sink your teeth into.
I've been ploughing through a bunch of roguelikes for a blog post, trying to come up with a hand picked selection of games that can be considered "accessible" to your average rpg or strategy gamer. However, after having picked my selection (and it's no way definitive), I stumbled upon QuickHack, and was instantly hooked!
I'm a dabbler when it comes to roguelikes, every now and then I come back to the genre and sample the delights. But I'm usually a tileset sort of guy. From the off, QuickHack had me in its Ascii clutches, it's real easy to start out, and it presents the information you need to just get on and enjoy the exploration and the progression. It's one of the first ASCII RL's that's gripped me. Kudos to you Sir.
I think the first "feature" that hit me, was the loot tumbling out of the barrels and taking up surrounding map spaces - I'd never seen this before and it's quite rewarding to see. I basically like the immediacy of the game, and hope you continue to develop it further. At the moment it will be my go-to game for quick sessions, because it's just so moreish to play.
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Thank you.
I've got an update in the works, but it's mostly just documentation and a .bat file for people who have trouble running the jar. However, it does speed up level generation (which can bog down a bit at the higher levels), as slightly faster pathfinding. I just need to get off my lazy butt and write the help file.
I have begun sketching out my next project, however, which will be a super-hero themed roguelike. While much of the design is still up in the air, the play style will be similar to QuickHack in many ways. I also prefer games that I can learn quickly; while games like Angband, Nethack, and Dwarf Fortress are great, I want to play, not learn to play.
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I've got an update in the works, but it's mostly just documentation and a .bat file for people who have trouble running the jar. However, it does speed up level generation (which can bog down a bit at the higher levels), as slightly faster pathfinding. I just need to get off my lazy butt and write the help file.
Waiting in anticipation :)
Any plans to add more classes, perhaps an archer? I suppose the Wizard would play like an archer, so perhaps you've balanced the current crop, and I should just settle for what there is :)
I have begun sketching out my next project, however, which will be a super-hero themed roguelike. While much of the design is still up in the air, the play style will be similar to QuickHack in many ways.
Oh excellent, well consider me an eager fan. I'd like to see a super-hero roguelike executed well - do you think you'll roll up their powers, or will there be "classes" of heroes?
I also prefer games that I can learn quickly; while games like Angband, Nethack, and Dwarf Fortress are great, I want to play, not learn to play.
Same here, you can spend way too much time, digging into the nitty gritty and never getting anything out of the game. The number of "bigger" RL's I've taken a long time rolling up, only to be trounced by something very early on, it sort of defeats the point of a very detailed set up, if the difficulty can spike so soon you've not familiarised yourself with the complex character.
I know part of the charm of roguelikes is the mysticism that comes along with their mechanics, and many old school'ers wear that as a badge of honour, but for newcomers to the genre, especially nowadays, it can just put people off, and they'll be missing out on a really quite complex, diverse and very interesting world of gaming.
I've found a similar thing at play within the wargaming community. It's almost as if some wargamers feel they have to earn their stripes on the hardcore, dry nuts and bolts games, where the pain with an antiquated and obfuscated UI is part of your bootcamp training. There are some epic, complex and deep wargames out there, but ultimately a lot of them are hampered by their presentation and interface from yesteryear. It's looking up though, a number of companies are now bringing more accessible wargaming to the masses... and I feel like roguelikes are also in a period of similar transition. Although I could be wrong :)
Anyway, keep up the good work wire_hall_medic, if all your future projects have QuickHack's elegance behind them, I'm sure they'll be received well by newcomers to the genre.
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I'm not planning on adding any thing, just doing a bit of polishing. And "balanced" is probably a strong word for the classes; it's definitely harder to win with a knight than a summoner. Next project, I plan on putting in a score multiplier for the more difficult classes.
Powers (both passive and active) will be chosen; a few at character creation and more on leveling up. However, there will be randomly generated items which have a significant impact on how a character plays.
First are utility items; grappling hooks, smoke bombs, etc. They have a limited number of uses per dungeon, and fully recharge between dungeons.
Second are attribute improvements (working title). There are 4 types; agility, science, strength, and will. You have three slots for them; offense, defense, and tactical. They have different, thematically linked effects depending on which type you put in which slot, as well as improving your ability. For example, putting a +1 Will attribute in defense would improve your defense score by 10, as well as allowing you to shake off harmful status conditions one turn sooner.
I want to keep the difficulty of learning to play low; I've been playing quite a bit of Brogue lately (because of this thread, actually), and have been really impressed at how well it conveys information. Current plans involve that level of communication.
I expect it'll take me MUCH longer to make, but I'll be putting it out for consumption once it's a thing.
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Thanks for the details to the "Hero" project, it sounds a very exciting prospect indeed. From the equipment available it sounds like my first character should Batman! ;)
Looking forward to seeing what you can craft, with the accessibility of QuickHack, but with the depth you seem to offer in your initial outline/plans. Thanks for sharing.
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This is where I draw the line. I just don't see what the point of permadeath is. Your the gamer who is trying to have fun with the game. But here lies the problem. How can you have fun with a game when you have to know while playing that if you screw up one move, your lvl 6 character that took an hour to lvl, is gone. I just don't see the point in why you would want to be a masochist.
This is after Cardinal Quest (with no stat allocating whatsoever) bombs. No fun stat combinations to use, no tactics, no difference between classes.
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Using permadeath is a design choice with the goal of creating tension. It doesn't work if you play the game with a ton of attachment to your character, like in a traditional RPG. The point is to play tons of times and get better each time, making yourself feel smart and creative. Seeing your character grow in strength is good, but investment into a single character is not the point.
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I understand what it is to do. I just dont get why roguelikes cant allow an option to turn permadeath off like in Dungeons of Dredmor which im having loads of fun with.
Its too bad, because a lot of roguelikes I try and get into, none of them have that option like DOD. Arent there any other roguelikes like dod with that option? I really like the single character single action ones in general, like DOD and in solo character rpgs in general (The Quest, Eschalon series). Arent there any other games like that out there or are all of them present with permadeath?
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I'd like the choice as well, since I am a poor player. :-(
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If you're playing without permadeath than you are playing a completely different game, a completely different genre even. Thus you can't really ask for a roguelike without permadeath. What you want is just a different game entirely.
I think you can get extra lives in tome4 if you are a donater...not sure though.
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Ive actually taken a different turn in my perspective on these games. After realizing that its somewhat normal to die (Am I right?), Ive come to believe that these are some of the best games out there. Right now I am currently enjoying Cardinal Quest my 2nd time as my first char only made it to lvl 6 of 12. What is cool is that the risks are doubly there and you have to make some serious close calls in order to survive. I havent gotten close to finishing the game but I want to play it even more with that knowledge.
What I like about Cardinal Quest 1 is that there still is a story attached to the game. I hope that there are other games of that same vein out there if I eventually finish this game.
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Yeah man. Now you are getting it. One of the goals of the designer of a roguelike is to make sure you learn something each time you die so you can do better next time, and also to make death a very scary thing. That tension, the high stakes, the progression of your game skill (not your game character), those are the things this genre is super good at.
Grinding a character up to a high level, feeling tons of attachment for your character, that's more of an RPG thing. Roguelikes are RPG's in many ways, but not in the 'attachment' way.
Some would argue that in old school paper and pencil Dungeons and Dragons you died A TON! So in that vein maybe Roguelikes are very RPG-like, just not in the more modern sense.
EDIT: http://roguetemple.com/forums/index.php?topic=2710.0
Here is a thread where I ascend on Cardinal Quest, it's considered one of the easier Roguelikes, but it sure gave me trouble. :-)
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Oh don't worry. That was the thread I read over 3 times before it dawned on me-This is normal. I just hope that in the future there are more rogue-likes almost exactly like Cardinal Quest. I know there is a sequel in the works. I just like a lot of what the game has-an actual game story, the class system where each character plays differently. If you know of any other ones in the future, throw me a bone and I will do the same :)
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Dude have you checked out ToME4? It has the click interface style of Cardinal Quest, tons of story too that Darren Grey wrote. It's like Cardinal Quest on meth'roids with all the nasty side effects. Tons of character classes, solid graphics. It's considered the top game now for a few years running (it keeps winning the annual poll).
http://te4.org/
That's the site for the game.
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Yeah I actually have that. Im trying to find out the basics of the game as its a little complicated but fun nonetheless.
Theres another game I want to try out seriously before I go to TOME. The last time I played it was when I wasn't into the whole permadeath. The games called: LambdaRogue. I donated $10 bucks to the maker as he was really a cool dude. Said something about my name will appear in the game. If you haven't played it, you might like it. Its got an awesome stat/skill system but the interface isn't as easy to use as TOME. Probably the best story Ive read though so far for these games.
Im telling ya, story is so important for me for these games. If a roguelike doesn't have any story I might as well be playing an action/rpg. Even if the story is like Cardinal Quest, you gotta have some kind of story.
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Dude have you checked out ToME4? It has the click interface style of Cardinal Quest, tons of story too that Darren Grey wrote. It's like Cardinal Quest on meth'roids with all the nasty side effects. Tons of character classes, solid graphics. It's considered the top game now for a few years running (it keeps winning the annual poll).
http://te4.org/
That's the site for the game.
Is Tome as brutal as the other roguelikes out there ? I tried playing through Cardinal Quest but with no luck. Once I get to lvl 5, I find that my fighter just dies horribly due to the powerful and devious enemies. I happen to like Dungeons of Dredmor but even that game is brutal in permadeath mode, even moreso than CQ.
Is TOme worth trying or should I forget it?
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Is Tome as brutal as the other roguelikes out there ? I tried playing through Cardinal Quest but with no luck. Once I get to lvl 5, I find that my fighter just dies horribly due to the powerful and devious enemies. I happen to like Dungeons of Dredmor but even that game is brutal in permadeath mode, even moreso than CQ.
Is TOme worth trying or should I forget it?
It depends on the person I suppose, I kind of liked the game, but some parts I didnt. It takes longer than most roguelikes(Similar to angband and its variants, I supposed) but it has a mode that gives you extra lives every few levels. It's not enough to make the game super easy, but makes it easier to learn before you take the dive into full permadeath.
Just be aware it has some mechanics very different from other games. There are little totems and such that will lower or raise stats around dungeons within a radius of them.(You can see a glowing circle) One that threw me off though, is enemies with very specific teleporting skills. Don't remember the name of the skill, but early in the game I ran into wolves that could teleport to an adjacent square, even if they couldn't possible walk there, and attack you, which lost me lives in hallways as it was impossible to retreat.
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I found that TOME was way too technical. I first started playing once after printing out sheets of all the stats and skills that the game had. I thought after a while that maybe too technical of a game to just get into.
I hope that someday I can eventually get to complete Cardinal Quest as that game is really a lot of fun. Its hard as anything, but something brings me back to it all the time.
They should make more roguelikes like that.
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Hey Deathknight you still trippin' on what's the game for you?
Most people dig Brogue. It's great. DoomRL as well. Check out those two, then check out their forums. Lambda is good as well, it recently hit completion. ToME4 is great but it's not for me, many MANY people call it the best. The graphic version of Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is good, as is powder.
Soon the 7DRL challenge will commence. I recommend checking out the top 10 rated games, and any others that get good buzz/discussion.
Peace.
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ToME4 is great but it's not for me, many MANY people call it the best.
Recent history proves that it is very easy to lure MANY people, and some make a good use of this experience, so that it often turns out that MANY people are wrong. It should be obvious for RL players, as RL itself is a niche (although it's quickly drifting towards mainstream nowadays). Otherwise we would all end up playing FarmVille.
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Recent history proves that it is very easy to lure MANY people, and some make a good use of this experience, so that it often turns out that MANY people are wrong. It should be obvious for RL players, as RL itself is a niche (although it's quickly drifting towards mainstream nowadays). Otherwise we would all end up playing FarmVille.
* Writes down idea: "Farming roguelike" *
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This is a must read for newbies like me. Roguelike rules!
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Hi. I don't want to create a new topic, so I write this. Thematically fits.
I search dungeon-crawler:
- with choice of race and class
- single-screen levels (important)
- without weirdness like sokoban in NetHack :)
- with ascii-look
- not sci-fiction background
um, I think that the best will be ADoM's Infinity Dungeon, without corrupt effects :)
can you recommend me something?
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Mage Guild has all of that except for your choice of race.
Angband and Dungeon Crawl should meet your criteria as well. They're popular, but I don't like them.
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My bad - I didn't wrote that I played all of major roguelikes and a lot of 'not yet major', coffebreakes, 7drl's, etc.
And I made a mistake with criterias. When I wrote 'single-size levels' I want to write 'single-screen levels'.
Yeah, I played Angband (+ some variants), Dungeon Crawl (old and DCSS).
::first post updated
I'm waiting for proposal
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Alright, well let's see...
Sil could be a good fit. It's an Angband variant, but it differs so much from the base game that it might as well be its own thing.
PrincessRL fits most of your criteria. It doesn't let you choose a race or a class, but it has its own robust character building system.
Brogue is good, though its character building is based on your equipment. You can't choose a class or anything like that.
When you say you want a dungeon crawler, does that mean you don't want an overworld or anything like that? Ragnarok somewhat fits your requirements, but it doesn't all take place in a single dungeon.
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Frozen depths, Larn, NLarn.
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@Vanguard Brogue is a good RL, but not for me. Graphics, gameplay, system - practycally everything is 'not for me'.
I like Sil, but Sil has not a sinlge-screen dungeon levels.
Umm, PrincessRL is very quaint. I like this 7DRL most :) But this is not what I'm searching.
@Elig FD is very good, I had forgotten about it.
I have problem with NLarn - often second level of dungeon is broken, like the level is moved down, off the screen. Unfortunately, this prevents the exploration level and make progress in the game.
When you say you want a dungeon crawler, does that mean you don't want an overworld or anything like that? Ragnarok somewhat fits your requirements, but it doesn't all take place in a single dungeon.
Hm, overworld is ok, but the main action should be in dungeons. Angband, his variants (ToME 2.3.5. (+Theme mod), etc. are very good example what I want. + single-screen levels. Currently I'm working hard and from this reason I'm looking for something that does not "tire". Angband + variants are "tiresome" - after a day on the excavation I don't want to look down the stairs for a long time.
DCSS? Very good roguelike, but style of his gameplay is difficult for me, I cannot survive to midgame.
Im looking for roguelike rather easy, but not too simple.
Why possibility to choose the race and class is important for me?
For example, in ADoM (and DCSS) I can highly personalized character. A lot of race/class combination, + talents, skills - ech character can be diffrent. In Brogue, all charaters are the same.
The most, I want to ADoM without corrupt effects or NetHack without special-special levels, like Sokoban.
I know that I have high expectations, but... So much in life played in roguelikes and I'm looking for something specifically for me.
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@Elig FD is very good, I had forgotten about it.
I have problem with NLarn - often second level of dungeon is broken, like the level is moved down, off the screen. Unfortunately, this prevents the exploration level and make progress in the game.
That bug was fixed in version 0.7.1. Try the latest (http://nlarn.sourceforge.net/)version of NLarn :)
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One minute, I need to check which version of NLarn I have.
[...]
[...]
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Ok, I had NLarn 0.7. merci beaucoup :)
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The most, I want to ADoM without corrupt effects or NetHack without special-special levels, like Sokoban.
Corruption is one of the most awesome things about ADOM! It's one of the few games which has an effective late game hunger clock. The new Chaos Knight is really cool too.
Ive actually taken a different turn in my perspective on these games. After realizing that its somewhat normal to die (Am I right?), Ive come to believe that these are some of the best games out there.
Bit late to the party here, but it's really great to hear that you've changed your opinion about this :)
What I like about Cardinal Quest 1 is that there still is a story attached to the game. I hope that there are other games of that same vein out there if I eventually finish this game.
I'd humbly suggest Broken Bottle (http://www.gamesofgrey.com/#broken_bottle) as a story-focused roguelike.
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Good call Darren. Broken Bottle is what I was thinking as well.