Temple of The Roguelike Forums

Announcements => Other Announcements => Topic started by: Omnivorous on November 20, 2009, 12:43:00 PM

Title: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Omnivorous on November 20, 2009, 12:43:00 PM
I hope I didn't forget anything.. I didn't bother adding "Text - Linux" because I think all roguelikes that can be played in Linux (which is almoast all of them) it is available in text-mode. But text in windows is alot different than a DOS-version. And I know the correct term might be "ASCII" or unicode, but we all understand what "text" means. :)

I prefer a clean, clear and colorful (in the right ways, not "flashy") text-layout in DOS.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: IsharaComix on November 20, 2009, 12:53:14 PM
Full screen on the Ubuntu virtual terminal!

I wish I could get on an old Unix terminal just so I can see how they played them in the old days. That would be so awesome.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: getter77 on November 20, 2009, 01:25:21 PM
If I could've selected all Graphical variants, I would've.  Well, at least until some other projects take the Triangle Wizard style and run with it!   :D
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Z on November 20, 2009, 02:12:16 PM
I assume that by "Text - DOS" you mean that the system console is used (which makes it look like DOS), and "Text - Windows" means that the game uses a graphical library such as e.g. SDL to display the world in simulated ASCII, or something like that. (There is a big difference, I usually like games which use the system console, but dislike most of those which simulate, because they force me to look at fonts I do not like. But libtcod also looks great from what I have seen.)
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Omnivorous on November 20, 2009, 02:51:46 PM
I assume that by "Text - DOS" you mean that the system console is used (which makes it look like DOS), and "Text - Windows" means that the game uses a graphical library such as e.g. SDL to display the world in simulated ASCII, or something like that. (There is a big difference, I usually like games which use the system console, but dislike most of those which simulate, because they force me to look at fonts I do not like. But libtcod also looks great from what I have seen.)


I don't know anything about coding, so I don't know the difference on that side. I just mean "It has been optimized for DOS and you can play it in DosBox" or "It hasn't been optimized for DOS, and you run it in windows - with whatever you are offered there" basically.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Rabiat on November 20, 2009, 04:01:14 PM
I don't care if a game is graphical or in text mode. But if it's in text mode, I usually prefer actual full screen text mode to a console window. If it's graphical, and the game allows movement in eight directions, I prefer hex tiles to square/isometric.

The only thing I dislike is 'cosmetic' 3D. Viewing a spinning @ through a tilting chase cam may be fun for ten minutes, but if the game remains grid-based and/or turn-based, the extra dimension is essentially meaningless.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Z on November 20, 2009, 04:50:09 PM
I don't know anything about coding, so I don't know the difference on that side. I just mean "It has been optimized for DOS and you can play it in DosBox" or "It hasn't been optimized for DOS, and you run it in windows - with whatever you are offered there" basically.

So, DoomRL and the ASCII version of Dungeon Crawl are "Text - Windows" or "Text - DOS" for you? They both might look like DOS programs, but you could not run them under DOS, unless you downloaded a DOS specific executable (I see there is one for Crawl, but not for DoomRL). That's a choice of operating system, not of graphics style, like the other options... Unless someone likes the feel of playing through DosBox for some reason, but I don't think there is enough reason nowadays to produce games which are supposed to be played via DosBox.

About the technical details... the system console looks like DOS (or rather can look like DOS), (see e.g. DoomRL, ASCII version of Crawl, DOS version of ADOM...) and the simulated ASCII looks like whatever the dev wanted to make it look like (e.g. ADOM WinBeta).
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: AmnEn on November 22, 2009, 09:01:33 PM
Tiled Graphics are prefered.
I don't have a problem with ASCII based roguelikes but I'll prefer a tilebased one over ASCII anytime. I don't quite understand the fixation on monochrome ASCII either. Why does it have to look like the first version released ever? :/
I can understand it if it is due to a lack of ressources to develop anything other than that, Roguelikes are quite complex beasts. But the decision to not use any graphical means just because someone shuns them, be it color or tiles, is beyond me.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Omnivorous on November 22, 2009, 10:16:13 PM
I don't know anything about coding, so I don't know the difference on that side. I just mean "It has been optimized for DOS and you can play it in DosBox" or "It hasn't been optimized for DOS, and you run it in windows - with whatever you are offered there" basically.

So, DoomRL and the ASCII version of Dungeon Crawl are "Text - Windows" or "Text - DOS" for you? They both might look like DOS programs, but you could not run them under DOS, unless you downloaded a DOS specific executable (I see there is one for Crawl, but not for DoomRL). That's a choice of operating system, not of graphics style, like the other options... Unless someone likes the feel of playing through DosBox for some reason, but I don't think there is enough reason nowadays to produce games which are supposed to be played via DosBox.

About the technical details... the system console looks like DOS (or rather can look like DOS), (see e.g. DoomRL, ASCII version of Crawl, DOS version of ADOM...) and the simulated ASCII looks like whatever the dev wanted to make it look like (e.g. ADOM WinBeta).


Exactly. DoomRL is "Text - Windows". I can't play it in DOS, and so, I don't play it. Even though I love that game.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Scautura on November 23, 2009, 10:37:14 AM
You missed an option: I don't really care, as long as it's playable.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Fenrir on November 23, 2009, 02:20:41 PM
Give me ASCII on all platforms!
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Vanguard on November 23, 2009, 09:24:34 PM
I like tiles better so long as they're clearly recognizable and professional looking.  Ascii is better than badly done tiles.  CastlevaniaRL, Mage Guild, and Crawl are examples of games with good tile sets.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: pat on November 23, 2009, 10:33:04 PM
Give me ASCII on all platforms!
yep, can't stand tiles for some reason. Maybe I just haven't seen any that I like.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Omnivorous on November 25, 2009, 07:21:27 PM
You missed an option: I don't really care, as long as it's playable.

Well I think every true roguelike-player feels like that. Question is what do you -prefer- (with whatever you put behind that word, maybe a 3D-roguelike will come out that blows your mind, but until it does, perhaps you've had the best experiences with clean ol' ascii :)).

To me the ascii-graphics represent imagination. That's what usually separate good/bad RPGs; if the player gets so into it that the imaginary world he/she is tumbling around in becomes a part of them. With ascii you kinda don't have any options. You have to use your imagination, if you don't, you only see a screen full of letters! :)

I have tremendous respect for the 'T' in Rogue :D The yellow g's too early in a Crawl-game, etc.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Vanguard on November 25, 2009, 10:58:54 PM
I don't see tiles and ascii to necessarily be mutually exclusive.  CastlevaniaRL allows for both, and it looks good either way.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Z on November 25, 2009, 11:36:05 PM
Exactly. DoomRL is "Text - Windows". I can't play it in DOS, and so, I don't play it. Even though I love that game.

So are you still using DOS? Or DosBox?

I have read on rgrd that Windows Vista and 7 no longer allow running programs in text mode (unless some strange thing is done to them), so maybe that is the problem. (When I run roguelikes like Crawl or DoomRL on Windows XP or older or on Linux, I run them in text mode (which I get under Windows by pressing Alt+Enter and on Linux by pressing Ctrl+Alt+F1), and they look like DOS, I don't see why you would prefer to use DosBox or real DOS instead. If Vista and 7 no longer allow that, then indeed it would be a problem.)
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Omnivorous on November 26, 2009, 12:59:33 AM
Yeah, I have Vista. And will be going Windows 7 soon. It wouldn't be a problem in Windows XP. Imagine playing roguelikes though in a tiny window that sits at the corner of your screen, covering one tenth of it. Colors all messed up, and horrible lag. It can be "solved" by decreasing resolution on the desktop, but that's not very cool either.

I use DOSbox. And even if it ran no problem in Windows, I might've still preferred my DOS-emulator.. :) It just feels so..cozy! DOS is so pure~ :D
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: george on November 26, 2009, 07:13:24 PM
I can't say I've ever liked tiles. It seems like an average tileset is much worse looking than an....average textmode set  ;). Really well done tiles are good but very rare IMO.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: 5v3nd0ttg on November 27, 2009, 09:37:00 PM
Though I submitted Isometric, it's truely more-or-less just a matter of my mood. I would suggest any developer to allow multiple graphical options to extend their reach amongst consumers/gamers interested in their particular genre.

Isometric is really just a guilty pleasure that brings me back to a great time in my youth.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: jim on November 27, 2009, 11:23:59 PM
If there's one thing that roguelikes prove, it's that graphics are secondary to gameplay. Sometimes I find myself to be a fetishist for minimalist graphics (especially when my 13-year-old cousin is drooling to me over the latest in Halo explosions), but overall I really don't care too much about how the game looks. It's more about what the game is. IVAN's graphics, for instance, felt particularly well-crafted, while the various Shiren-type roguelikes from Japan tend to look silly and tacky to me.

Then again, I remember that quasi-roguelike arena game a while back that used letters for characters, but had realistic rainfall all around in the meanwhile. To me, the self-consciousness of that choice gave an understated sense of grandeur to the experience. I guess I feel in general that graphics, when a focus, should advance the game; if they can't, then they should at least be clear and undistracting.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: sausage on February 24, 2010, 06:23:25 PM
ASCII-Windows mostly.

Although I do play DF with a player-made tileset.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: zzo38 on March 12, 2010, 07:40:12 PM
I prefer Text - DOS. (Or, using terminal emulation.) Some games have multiple mode but I use text-mode
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: K.I.L.E.R on March 26, 2010, 08:10:47 AM
Tiles. I use Windows and I hate using the small console on my 27" monitor.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Skeletor on March 26, 2010, 08:16:52 AM
Dos or Windows, the only important things are:
1) Alt+Enter fullscreen is available
2) everythings is quick (I press a key -> the @ instantly moves there in a millisecond)

I ofter prefere the dos emulated version (for example, in Adom it works better IMO).
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Darren Grey on March 27, 2010, 07:25:29 PM
Tiles. I use Windows and I hate using the small console on my 27" monitor.

Right-click on the top of the console window and choose Properties.  In there you can either choose to always have it full screen, or you can go to the Font tab and pick a larger Font.  Personally I use Lucida Console size 18, but you might want something a little bigger for your 27"  :)  When you exit it'll ask if you want to save these settings for future consoles - choose yes and it'll make all consoles the same in future.
Title: Re: How do you like your roguelikes?
Post by: Z on April 15, 2010, 04:08:42 PM
I ofter prefere the dos emulated version (for example, in Adom it works better IMO).

Linux version via ADOM Sage works even better, IIRC. (Possibly, no longer on Vista.)