Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Game Discussion => Classic Roguelikes => Topic started by: Adral on June 08, 2007, 07:51:37 AM
-
What is your favourite major roguelike? I am not talking about newborn ones, but the grand ones of the genre. Please vote and, if you do not mind, specify which one you did vote and why ;)
For my vote, I love them all, but ADOM is the game that actually got me started on roguelikes at all, so my vote goes for it. Yeah, nostalgia... ;)
-
Definitly Dungeon Crawl. It doesn't stray too far from the pure formula of Rogue but somehow manages to add tons of features anyway.
ADOM follows very close, but it doesn't have the same high replay value for me.
-
I used to be a huge nethack fan, but now I prefer ADOM. I'm a big fan of skill-based systems, and while ADOM doesn't adopt that system to 100%, it still uses it a lot more than nethack. Also, I hate the linux version of nethack, stupid hjkl keys.
I never really got into dungeon crawl. The linux version also uses hjkl, I think. It seemed a bit too miscellaneous. Too many races, too many choices - do they really add something difference, or are they just content galore, a matter of personal preference?
-
From my personal experience: AdoM; it is what got me into the genre.
NetHack is too chaotic, Angband is grindy...
And about Crawl, I played it *ages* ago, and have lately heard many good things about it, I guess I must give it a try ;)
-
I used to be a huge nethack fan, but now I prefer ADOM. I'm a big fan of skill-based systems, and while ADOM doesn't adopt that system to 100%, it still uses it a lot more than nethack. Also, I hate the linux version of nethack, stupid hjkl keys.
Add OPTIONS=number_pad:1 into your .nethackrc file in your home/ folder. Remember, a session of RTFM always helps :P (this is documented in the Nethack Guidebook and in the options help). Alternatively, edit the options in-game and choose number_pad 1, but this will not make it permanent.
I never really got into dungeon crawl. The linux version also uses hjkl, I think. It seemed a bit too miscellaneous. Too many races, too many choices - do they really add something difference, or are they just content galore, a matter of personal preference?
It does not require the use of hjkl keys. Maybe you need Stone Soup (http://crawl-ref.sourceforge.net/) instead of Linley's, though (which is at version 0.2.6 at the moment), but I *can* play with number pad. Just remember to keep your num lock button on ;)
Races do add a lot, more than character classes, in Crawl. A race determines your improvement rate with all skills, as well as the attribute advancement tree. Classes determine only your starting skills and attributes. Also, some races have special powers which further distinguish them. I suggest you look for some spoilers regarding races for the latest version of Crawl so you see what are those differences.
Also, maybe you want to check the akrasiac server (http://crawl.akrasiac.org/) to play Crawl online.
-
Ah, interesting. I should say I'm always on a laptop though, so do those keypad things work with the arrows (and Home, PgUp, PgDn and End) ? I believe I might have tried that, but I think I'd remember if it had worked. I might be wrong though.
What annoys me is the lack of configuration for something as simple as keyboard input. There was some roguelike in python I tried some time ago, and you didn't really need to configure it, since you could just as well dive into the code and add a few keys to some lists. I think it might've been Hive Awakening. C++ roguelikes could easilly incorporate a "change keys" feature, or read keycodes from a configuration file.
-
Ah, interesting. I should say I'm always on a laptop though, so do those keypad things work with the arrows (and Home, PgUp, PgDn and End) ? I believe I might have tried that, but I think I'd remember if it had worked. I might be wrong though.
I just checked that, and you are right - it supports "proper" number pad, but not the arrow keys :-/
And I agree that a key configuration file is always nice ;)
-
I have to say, that of these four Crawl is my favorite. I like that it feels faster paced than nethack, without being super grindy like Angband, and as a plus, its still being actively developed, with a pretty quick release cycle(though I'm sure that there will eventually be a new version of NetHack and Angband).
-
ADoM for me, i am an active CRAWL hater, i mean, every game is pretty much the same, there is very little variety, ugly dungeon generator, classes are meaningless, and the amount of key presses needed to kill one bat...and there are way many bats. Okay, bats are hard to hit, i get it already, just die now, arrrgh ! The only good thing in CRAWL is auto-explore, very comfy. Why so many lemmings...i mean people spam about CRAWL everywhere they can all day long is beyond my understanding.
-
ADoM for me, i am an active CRAWL hater, i mean, every game is pretty much the same, there is very little variety, ugly dungeon generator, classes are meaningless, and the amount of key presses needed to kill one bat...and there are way many bats. Okay, bats are hard to hit, i get it already, just die now, arrrgh ! The only good thing in CRAWL is auto-explore, very comfy. Why so many lemmings...i mean people spam about CRAWL everywhere they can all day long is beyond my understanding.
And I cannot understand why you keep spamming even more your hatred towards the game everywhere. Nobody is forcing you to play it... Just ignore everything Crawl-related and do not start telling *opinions* (which are different than facts) about the game. Talk about how much you love ADoM, for example, and ignore the Crawl discussions, and everybody'll be happy ;)
-
Crawl gets my vote. It's got the best balance between functionality and randomness, imo. I'd put ADOM second, just barely behind Crawl. Nethack 3rd, and Angband 4th. They're all fun though!
-
ADoM for me. Even after 9 years playing it and finishing it once, I'm still not good enough at it for it to get too repetitive.
I've sunk a lot of time into Crawl as well but I just find it too frustrating, personally.
I still get the 'WTF' face when I tell people my game gets deleted if my character dies.
-
Heheheh!
In view of all the votes that have been put here, I've decided to give Stone Soup a try. I obviously still suck at it, I've only played around a dozen games. Trying a magic-user, I've found I die really, really often because first-level spells really don't do much damage at all. The only way I got a little further was by using a Mountain Dwarf Earth Elementalist to get initial spells, and then just bash at the enemies. However, whenever I put some heavier armour, all the spells fizzle (kinda like nethack).
I also found I quite like the experience system though. It's really interesting. However, it suffers from the thing that annoys me the most: quadratic experience requirement curve - like in a lot of games really. This way, in later stages, the feel of your character becoming more powerful is greatly reduced, as you have to play a whole lot to get another single level in a single skill.
Also, the god system is actually quite nice, though a little more active participation by some would be really interesting. I think POWDER has a bit of this.
Anyway, apart from that, those evil Ogres usually get me. And I've never gotten past the Orc Warrior.
Speaking of which, more experienced players should start a topic referring to their game-of-choice, and give us newbies tips&tricks. I'm the kind of guy that plays a lot. Of the first few levels. I never really get anywhere. That's true for nethack, ADOM, and Crawl so far. I might just be missing on a few things, I dunno.
What really works for me as a fighter in ADOM, for example, is shield+spear combo. The DV rockets sky-high if you get proficient at them. That's one tip. But it should be on a separate topic. :)
--- edit ---
Oh, how could I forget! Ctrl-O, I don't have to bother exploring the dungeon, I can focus on the fighting! Excellent! Really, really nice feature, and shouldn't be all that hard to implement either. Especially because those are really horrible dungeons, I don't like their shape. Helps a lot!
-
Funny how there are no votes for Angband or Nethack. Maybe we should vote for our second favourite Major roguelike?
-
I've recently tried Angband (or one of the variants or something) and hated it. If anyone could point out it's finer parts, maybe I might enjoy it. The maps I ran across were absolutely horrible.
-
I've recently tried Angband (or one of the variants or something) and hated it. If anyone could point out it's finer parts, maybe I might enjoy it. The maps I ran across were absolutely horrible.
Hm... Angband...
I have got a love/hate relationship with Angband. It is one of the simpler roguelikes out there, easy to pick up and play (and now even more in the 3.0.8 betas, with friendlier menus and interface), so easy in fact even my girlfriend started liking it. It also has a certain action-game feel to it, since you get more and more stupidly powerful items, maps are rearranged (so you focus on tactics and inventory management much more than long term strategy) and the feel there are no puzzles to solve, like Nethack, nor it is extremely cruel against the new player, like Crawl. You have that urge to collect nice items, resistances, etc, which I find fun. Mindless fun, basically.
On the other hand, though, there is a *huge* dungeon (100 levels? It's just absurd), the rainbow monster problem, where you have hundreds of silly variations of a same monster, and the overall grindiness of it all. I think Angband would gain a lot if the dungeon was shorter without reducing its difficulty, since it would put a bit of more pressure into the player. Oh, and yes, the maps are horrible :P, but at least you get to tunnel all the way to find treasure! :P.
Yeah, it's a very personal opinion, but I am sometimes in an Angband mood. I find it fun.
For a variant with (much) cooler maps, try Unangband. Lots of flavor in the dungeon, really!
-
Hm... Angband...
I have got a love/hate relationship with Angband.
I have never got into Angband because I spent most of my earlier years playing Moria instead, which has only 50 necessary levels. For those you think angband is to big try Quickband. You get to experience everything angband has to offer in only ten levels (although i cant remember what variant it is based on, NPP?).
I played ADOM for the first time in years the other day and suddenly realised how dull it is, compared to Crawl and more recently IVAN. THis is I guess that once you have mastered it there are no suprises anymore :(. Although to my amazment my last adom game I got sacrificed on a neutral altar by an invisible stalker just as I was thinking this game was to predictable! I think IVAN has some amazing features that really bring a roguelike to life. You will have to overcome its graphics and limb system first before you find it fun though, once you do, wow!
If I could not vote on these four RLs though, because they each have a different meaning to me.
Moria/Angband because it introduced me to roguelikes in the first place and taught me the meaning of patience.
ADOM because it was the game that revolutionised RLs for me.
Crawl because it injected new life into genre.
And nethack... well I dont think I have got past level 5, sorry I just dont like it.
-
Pros and cons:
Angband:
Pros -- simple. The interface is probably the easiest to learn out of all the roguelikes. You don't need to spend two months reading spoilers to win. Has a reasonably large fanbase. Many variants. Open-source. Easily customized.
Cons -- mindnumbingly tedious. Akin to "ID-scumming" in ADOM.
ADOM:
Pros -- I love the alignment system, and how it actually means something. Quests are interesting, and there are many of them. Good role-playing -- the game feels "real." The game is difficult, and well-balanced. Because of corruption, most types of farming have negative consequences.
Cons -- It takes two months of spoiler-reading before you actually know what you need to do to win the game. You have to know who to talk to, and if you talk to certain people before or after a certain time, certain opportunities can be lost forever. It takes forever to figure out the game without spoilers. Heck, it takes forever to even figure out the interface. No wizard-mode, explore mode, or source code.
NetHack:
Pros -- Large fanbase, so you will have shoulders to cry on if you're drowned by an eel or whatever. Can be played online. Active IRC channel. Many spoilers available -- anything you need to know about the game can be easily discovered through Wikia, or tested in wizard mode. The game has a clear objective, and the objects required to retrieve the Amulet of Yendor can be easily discovered using the "encyclopedia" feature. Easiest roguelike I have played, but can be made as difficult as you want with the proper conducts. Guaranteed wand of wishing. Developers have a sense of humor.
Cons -- Still very hard to ascend unspoiled. The setting feels rather artificial -- the dungeon doesn't feel like a real *dungeon*. Too many goddamn maze levels. Rewards excessive patience/farming (like Angband). You can choke. Eels should be permanently removed from the game.
Crawl: I played this for about five minutes. The most memorable part of it for me was dissecting food before you could eat it.
For the record, my vote went to NetHack.
-
Its ADOM for me.
It has real storyline and quests that make sense. Multiple endings and scores of NPCs with a resemblance of personality. It's probably somewhat closer to a "real" RPG than being roguelike.
-
1. Crawl. This game looks like quintessence of roguelike - pure gameplay. With using of auto-explore 99% time goes into battle, and most battles are deadly. If you just start mindlessly hitting arrow keys, you will instantly die. Also, crawl has good skill, magic and religion system.
2. ADOM. First roguelike with not-tending-to-zero plot, though it is still not worth a copper coin. Adom has a great diversity in race/class, but lacks in magic and religion.
3. Nethack. Pile of incoherent rubbish. Photographing a dragon sitting on a toilet may be fun, but I think the game must be more serious. Also, there is little information inside the game, you just can't say (without reading spoilers) which weapon is better in accuracy/damage statistic. Situation is saved by really interesting situations like eating your sword, petrifying enemy with cockatrice corpse, laying eggs, polymorphing into pudding and squeezing under a door, etc.
4. Angband. Boooring and empty. Non-persistent dungeons. ZAngband and Entroband are even worse pile of rubbish than Nethack.