Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Game Discussion => 7DRLs => Topic started by: Game Hunter on March 18, 2014, 04:09:32 AM
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I was advised to post all the videos here at the Temple, so I'll do just that. I'll even do one better: along with links to each video, I'll write up a small, additional review of the game. (EDIT: not doing a "official" judging, at least not with the posts.) Feel free to either comment in this thread, or head on over to YouTube and comment there: I'll be reading both as I go.
I've decided to go in the opposite direction of "sometimes videos won't be available here" and instead make it so that the videos are unlisted until their standard viewing time on YouTube. In other words, you'll have a small period of exclusive access by checking here first! It's not really my intention to add traffic in that manner, this just happens to make things less time-demanding for me while I'm at work.
To 7DRL Developers:
If you want me to do some extra reviewing for your game, let me know and I'll strive for more than one paragraph: if you want me to target a specific part (like the graphics, controls, gameplay, mechanics, etc) specify that as well. You can even ask this after the post goes up, it's just a quick edit! (Of course if you wait too long, like a month or more, I might not remember enough of the game to be confident in a review, so please keep this in mind.)
Anyway, without further ado, I present to you the massive link list! (This will be updated over the course of the next couple months as videos are completed.) Listing is alphabetical by game name.
7DArrrL, by Paul Jeffries (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3997.msg35323#msg35323)
Beware of Strange Warp Points, by Ed Kolis (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3997.msg35655#msg35655)
Fida'i, by Pat Wilson (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3997.msg35792#msg35792)
Hellspace, by Numeron (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3997.msg35790#msg35790)
Impera, by kniiight (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3997.msg35255#msg35255)
Northbound, by skeeto and netguy204 (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3997.msg35293#msg35293)
Rogue Station, by Pål Trefall & Kenneth Gangstø (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3997.msg35377#msg35377)
SoulsRL, by pangaea (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3997.msg35219#msg35219)
The Littlest Princess, by Joseph Bradshaw (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3997.msg35379#msg35379)
VARIABLO, by Rat King (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3997.msg35657#msg35657)
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This space will be left blank for now. A massive link list could easily max out a post, so I'm leaving extra room in case that happens.
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SoulsRL, by pangaea (http://youtu.be/Lj7Jp_GwFBU)
Overall thoughts:
I enjoy the prospect of what SoulsRL hopes to accomplish, but unfortunately it isn't accomplished to the point where I can effectively enjoy it. To guess at the ideal, I imagine a giant battle arena wherein you kill things as efficiently as possible, setting up paralyzed enemies as walls and slicing down those behind with a giant magical laser or hammer or mid-sized sedan. It'd boil down to keeping yourself health and alert, preparing for unseen challenges to come. Certainly that massive wave of turrents makes me want to survive the ordeal! But, as I mentioned, it's not really doing any of that right now, whether it be due to overall imbalance, some scattered bugs, or some missteps in the implementation. I really do hope this game (or at least this idea) gets worked on some more, as it can be so much more. I think some thoughtful consideration on a little more content, combined with some rigorous and thorough coding, would do wonders for this one.
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You're awesome Game Hunter! It's exciting enough to finish a game after 7 days of development, but then having you do video LPs/reviews on top prolongs the excitement even further! Best luck with your monumental quest! May your computer stay healthy and your throat never run dry!
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Impera, by kniiight (http://youtu.be/Dqx3XFzecMM)
Overall thoughts:
For what's here, this is a very polished and complete game. Simple startup and controls, complex interactions, decisions between limiting movement and limiting your own: there's a lot to get out of here! Replayability is definitely here as well. Honestly, the only flaw I could conceivably give is meta: the game's great but, given the challenge of 168 hours, it probably could have accomplished some more. Don't get me wrong, it accomplished a fair amount, but aside from some interesting enemy AI there isn't a lot of "content implementation". I bet some other simple abilities, interactive terrain, and a slightly more varied reward system per level could have been figured out with a really good use of time (and possibly beforehand planning).
I'm only saying that because I'm fishing for something to describe how it could be better in the context of 7DRL: as a standalone game, regardless of the challenge, this is a very good work and should be considered as such.
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Thanks for the review, Game Hunter. As usual, you're right--the game could definitely have been more content-heavy. However, I discovered when the 7DRL challenge this year was starting on the day it began, so I didn't have time to plan. I spent precious programming hours brainstorming a concept, and the rest of the time was spent implementing and polishing what I could plan on the spot. Next year hopefully I'll have more of a head start.
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Northbound, by skeeto and netguy204 (http://youtu.be/J4jOxma4uhE)
Overall thoughts:
It's not bad at all for a prototype: many of the concepts-to-come are obvious and the pacing of gameplay is solid. There's really not much content except the graphics and music, though, so I can't speak much on how much fun I had: it's more pretty than engaging. Hopefully more work will be done, because it needs work, but almost any new efforts into adding content should turn out positive. Ramping up the number of resources necessary to survive, making use of the terrain for those resources, occasional obstacles "thrown" by the encroaching shadow to hinder you, and adjusting the stamina system to account for long-term fatigue, to name a few. The aesthetics have been built up nicely, all you gotta do is get the game down!
EDIT: New video's up. My overall thoughts from this post haven't changed, but there are more accurate comments in the new video description.
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7DArrrL, by Paul Jeffries (http://youtu.be/EiUOltz9g_c)
Overall Thoughts:
What an eclectic set of controls! I'm rather fond of mixing up control as a part of changing gameplay, and this one seems to make the jump easy and intuitive: wind can be hard to see, but other than that I had no issue trying to control. Whether or not I could control well is another matter, but figuring out the right timing and adjusting to the enemy's movements is the main reason for real-time games (or rather, whenever it's a reasonable choice between that and turn-based). But, well, it's just not a roguelike! Right now it's uniform combat, so after you figure out how to beat one ship, you're set beating them all (or doomed to eventually lose if it's impossible to do so flawlessly).
Of course, I never actually killed a single ship, so there may be some sustainability in the form of getting more crew. But unless there's a goal and/or a stark increase in variety (different ships, ways to improve your own, weather fluctuations) it's just a fun sea combat simulator, which does not a roguelike make. Definitely play it a little, it's fun anyway.
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Rogue Station, by Pål Trefall & Kenneth Gangstø (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzuZndRAwWE)
Overall Thoughts:
Completely different approach this time around, and I think it paid off handsomely. While there could be some bits and pieces added, making a really nice 15-30min game overall, Rogue Station performs the various tasks of building a roguelike admirably, and it plays well to boot! Ultimately the gameplay is pretty simple, but you have to be constantly aware of your semi-invisible surroundings and approach each area with caution and restraint. The "countdown timer" seems awfully long, though, especially given what's available to throw things off after it begins, but it's a good idea with the right combination of additional obstacles. I hope to see this fleshed out over time!
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The Littlest Princess, by Joseph Bradshaw (http://youtu.be/rT4svrV1hDg)
Overall Thoughts:
It's less ambitious than KlingonRL, but it's far more polished and aims for completely different objectives as a game, which I don't mind at all. The ghost is the real challenge of the game but everything else can and will get in the way, so there's a lot to think about. At the same time, the game board is small and the number of pieces are few, so it's easy to learn the patterns required to handle things. After that, you just gotta watch the next board and see what has to be done! I think it can work well as a roguelike for less experienced players (not that I show any indication of being good in the video) so fun may not be there for long depending on experience. I want to see more "board game" roguelikes, though, and this is a gem for that list.
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You're aware those last two are unlisted, right?
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You're aware those last two are unlisted, right?
Sure am! I've found that viewership is generally better on YouTube if I space out the recordings. You'll get to watch 'em here slightly earlier, and I imagine if you're checking this thread then you're interested in these videos specifically, not just whatever videos are available in some giant list of subscriptions.
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Ah, ok. Makes sense.
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Golden Krone Hotel, by jere (http://youtu.be/p7vfoyKDH2k)
Overall Thoughts:
Yeah, the intro to Golden Krone Hotel is awesome. Especially because it only takes ten or so moves to do! This game should be used as an example of great tutorial design.
As for the rest, I think there are more than enough elements to occupy the player for a while, and the situations can get complex very fast, leading either to tense and exciting gameplay or extra preparedness in future crawls. Having to balance the brawler and mage classes in the same character at different times changes the normal "pick a class and stay with it" perspective, and I expect that the pace of this game makes that work without feeling too forced on the player. Additionally, dual-class flipping means you won't get tired of doing the same actions, because you'll have to switch over at some point to stay alive! Some great execution in design, here.
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Crap Gamehunter I was going to warn you off of my game, it's not nearly the serious roguelike KlingonRL was.
I'm happy with how it came out as I was going for a simplistic game for my nieces. I might need to tone down the difficulty for them though. I nearly didn't release it as it ended up not being a very serious game.
Realizing that the rooms wrap lowers the difficulty. I added instructions so people will know that when they play it.
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Sweet! Thanks, Game Hunter. You asked about the version. I updated the website with release notes. Mainly bug fixes and small tweaks. I was a little concerned that I didn't hear any music/sounds. I don't know if that was a bug or if you just had the audio off.
I'm glad you like the tutorial area, but I'm still on the fence there. It conveys information, but not as much as I'd like. Blast is still a big source of confusion; I realized that through playtesting and even added an in game joke about it (which you only barely missed). The way daylight works still seemed to unclear at the end of the video too; that's two years in a row that I have made confusing sunlight mechcanics! :)
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I was a little concerned that I didn't hear any music/sounds. I don't know if that was a bug or if you just had the audio off.
Now that you mention it, I do remember hearing music the first time I started up the game. Trying things to figure out the best resolution meant going into the game a bit so I naturally refreshed the page: I suppose that could have caused a problem? I usually use Firefox for these games, so it could be browser-specific if you test with others.
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Beware of Strange Warp Points, by Ed Kolis (http://youtu.be/0rjYzJlDUdE)
Overall Thoughts:
I made the completely amateur mistake of trying to judge a game without playing it, and for that I sincerely apologize. Trying to figure out a game on the merit of its manual and display is not a sound way to understand the goals and objectives of its aesthetics. I really don't know why I decided to try that in this video, but I really hope I don't manage to do it again.
Ironically enough, however, in my premature judging I do think I nailed this game's major downside: complexity without depth. You can throw the player a lot of stats and tell them they must satisfy certain conditions, but if you do that too much without providing the player enough gameplay (in this case moving on the map and searching/fighting) then ultimately the game's focus becomes the condition-satisfying instead of what might be intended. I mention in the video that removing extraneous details from each component's listing would help parse the information: this would go a very long way in helping the player along the stat game and getting back to the action. I'd try to figure out what details of components have little or nothing to do with the primary activities of the game and just strip them, or simplify them enough so that it's easy to recognize ship deficiencies. I'm sure I didn't spend quite enough time internalizing the mass/crew/speed, but even if I did I think it'd be too much.
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VARIABLO, by Rat King (http://youtu.be/C6-i8aLCnhM)
Overall Thoughts:
The idea of the game is amazing and I wish I would see it more. However, I'm tempted to call this game a prototype, because it's barely stepping outside of its comfortable zone after introducing basic concepts. To be fair, it's really more of a prototype 2.0: there's progression and the game ends with victory/loss, which is better than games I would usually call prototypes, but it doesn't address "the struggle" of getting far and spending effort to reach said progression or victory. Now there's two ways to go with it: focus on the puzzle part and customize difficulty with some extra scatterings of enemies and powerups, or focus on the roguelike part and give the players additional abilities to manipulate the maps over time (like storing a square, or allowing them to move farther than adjacent, or merging pieces that then move together). Either way I'd find the game a ton more capable of hours of enjoyment, but as it is now I think it's limited to an hour or two.
Don't get me wrong, this is definitely fun in its current form. It is, however, missing some variation to keep the idea interesting past its novelty.
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Thanks a lot for your blind run of Rogue Station, Game Hunter. It was very rewarding to watch! The video just passed 1K views!!! Learned a lot from watching you play that we can hopefully fit into the first patch release. And so fun to see you figure out more and more with each death, and hear you trail off as you try to finish up, then play a little bit more... ;D Awesome job you're doing with these LPs!
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Hellspace, by Numeron (http://youtu.be/al1N20dHOrw)
Overall Thoughts:
For the scope of the 7DRL, this is a very good creation. Granted I do see a lot of similarities between it an Rogue City Scavenger on the engine side (and even the 7DRL 2012 game that I think crashed when I tried to play it but that's off-topic), but there's also enough additions to appreciate the development side. Then you have the gameplay, which has been expanded upon using creative and innovative surprises. There isn't a lot here, but for seven days it's plenty. It also paces well: the various abilities in enemies are spread throughout the game, culminating in that last encounter that tests your limits like no other in the game. And yeah, it could be harder (though final boss was just right) but the challenge would end up coming from even more abilities and such, which would have taken more time. So I like where this fits into 7DRL: not incredibly small, holds its own with a number of specialties, and wraps up in a way that makes you feel like you earned your victory. Well done!
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Fida'i, by Pat Wilson (http://youtu.be/sCo9Dx0cIfA)
Overall Thoughts:
I hate to keep saying it but I really really do wish Shift+Direction was turn-without-move: it throws off the balance of the game. And I really want to be able to thoroughly enjoy this game! Stealth roguelikes don't often stay interesting, but this one is semi-arcadey and keeps the player on their toes, trying to use resources carefully because they never know what they'll find on the next level. Combined with the obvious factor that your character is relatively awful at combat (though you can handle some non-combat opponents), it's challenging but greatly rewards an excellent usage of tools. In a genre filled to the brim with games that have you slaughter tons of enemies without much of a care, it's a breath of fresh air. Technically Pat's other games also instill this, but Fida'i pulls it off best thus far, I think.
PS: Sorry for sucking at keeping a regular schedule. Speedrunning is starting to become a rather intense hobby! I hope to make a lot of videos on the weekend so it's not too dry in the coming weeks.
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Hey Hunter what kind of shoes did you get? I'm a bit of a New Balance guy, had problems with my feet wearing Nikes.
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Fida'i, by Pat Wilson (http://youtu.be/sCo9Dx0cIfA)
Overall Thoughts:
I hate to keep saying it but I really really do wish Shift+Direction was turn-without-move: it throws off the balance of the game. And I really want to be able to thoroughly enjoy this game! Stealth roguelikes don't often stay interesting, but this one is semi-arcadey and keeps the player on their toes, trying to use resources carefully because they never know what they'll find on the next level. Combined with the obvious factor that your character is relatively awful at combat (though you can handle some non-combat opponents), it's challenging but greatly rewards an excellent usage of tools. In a genre filled to the brim with games that have you slaughter tons of enemies without much of a care, it's a breath of fresh air. Technically Pat's other games also instill this, but Fida'i pulls it off best thus far, I think.
PS: Sorry for sucking at keeping a regular schedule. Speedrunning is starting to become a rather intense hobby! I hope to make a lot of videos on the weekend so it's not too dry in the coming weeks.
Awesome, thanks for the video! I'll have to look at the turn without moving problem because it's supposed to be in there and it worked for me when I used the numpad for testing so I probably stuffed something up. I actually changed the movement due to feedback last year on rasatala where people hated that it took two key presses to turn and then move. It does make for less extraneous commands to move around but if you can't turn without moving then yeah that's a huge problem!
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DataQueen, by Darren Grey (http://youtu.be/jZekUZL-uUI)
Overall Thoughts:
It's actually kind of interesting to note that I haven't seen a lot of "complex" roguelikes yet: ones that attempt simple gameplay and combine it with complex situations do rather well in the 7DRL, and DataQueen is no exception there. So much that can be tried, so many types of patterns to be figured out, it's amusingly overwhelming when you consider how little there is in the way of content! It might be "too hard", but only in the sense that upgrades might be more frequent before handling bosses. At the very least, it would appear that your choice of weapon is extremely important for the second boss, and having a couple extra would be nice to go along for the ride. It's definitely the kind of game to pick up and play on occasion, slowly gathering experience, until you get to the next level and start learning everything all over again. Accumulating knowledge rather than stats: that's what I like most about the roguelike experience.
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Hey Hunter what kind of shoes did you get? I'm a bit of a New Balance guy, had problems with my feet wearing Nikes.
If you're curious, I have another YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/UberGameHunter) where I post some of my better runs. I also stream at twitch.tv (http://www.twitch.tv/capnclever/) which is sometimes kind of interesting (i.e., not really, but I don't mind talking while I run).
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DataQueen, by Darren Grey (http://youtu.be/jZekUZL-uUI)
Overall Thoughts:
It might be "too hard", but only in the sense that upgrades might be more frequent before handling bosses. At the very least, it would appear that your choice of weapon is extremely important for the second boss, and having a couple extra would be nice to go along for the ride. It's definitely the kind of game to pick up and play on occasion, slowly gathering experience, until you get to the next level and start learning everything all over again. Accumulating knowledge rather than stats: that's what I like most about the roguelike experience.
It's interesting you say that, because while I agree that it's a great game and worth playing, I thought the balance was off and beat it on the first playthrough, feeling pretty much unstoppable the entire way. I also even just picked the passive abilities and never had to use them. The freeze->hit combo is pretty much all you need to win. I'm not boasting here--I actually suck at a majority of roguelikes--but I didn't see much in the way of knowledge to accumulate, or much of a reason to play a second time (although I did just to make sure I didn't miss anything, because it came up on my review list...).
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It's interesting you say that, because while I agree that it's a great game and worth playing, I thought the balance was off and beat it on the first playthrough, feeling pretty much unstoppable the entire way. I also even just picked the passive abilities and never had to use them. The freeze->hit combo is pretty much all you need to win. I'm not boasting here--I actually suck at a majority of roguelikes--but I didn't see much in the way of knowledge to accumulate, or much of a reason to play a second time (although I did just to make sure I didn't miss anything, because it came up on my review list...).
Did you start the game with Freeze++? Cause you're not meant to... When releasing a post-7DRL version I accidentally left in my debug initial character set-up, which means starting with more powerful abilities. In the proper version (now fixed on the download) you start with just Spike and GridPush, and choosing what upgrades to take is a bit more painful. If you look at GameHunter's video you can see the abilities he starts with in comparison (he either had the initial 7DRL version or the very latest version).
Alas for rushed fix releases :( (can't even remember what I fixed - I think it was mostly adding some extra instruction text)
I'd really like to know what you thought of the final boss, but perhaps in spoiler tags or private discussion :)
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Data Queen kicked my ass.
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Hey Hunter what kind of shoes did you get? I'm a bit of a New Balance guy, had problems with my feet wearing Nikes.
If you're curious, I have another YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/UberGameHunter) where I post some of my better runs. I also stream at twitch.tv (http://www.twitch.tv/capnclever/) which is sometimes kind of interesting (i.e., not really, but I don't mind talking while I run).
Commander Keen Speedruns! I love it.
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It's interesting you say that, because while I agree that it's a great game and worth playing, I thought the balance was off and beat it on the first playthrough, feeling pretty much unstoppable the entire way. I also even just picked the passive abilities and never had to use them. The freeze->hit combo is pretty much all you need to win. I'm not boasting here--I actually suck at a majority of roguelikes--but I didn't see much in the way of knowledge to accumulate, or much of a reason to play a second time (although I did just to make sure I didn't miss anything, because it came up on my review list...).
Did you start the game with Freeze++? Cause you're not meant to... When releasing a post-7DRL version I accidentally left in my debug initial character set-up, which means starting with more powerful abilities. In the proper version (now fixed on the download) you start with just Spike and GridPush, and choosing what upgrades to take is a bit more painful. If you look at GameHunter's video you can see the abilities he starts with in comparison (he either had the initial 7DRL version or the very latest version).
Alas for rushed fix releases :( (can't even remember what I fixed - I think it was mostly adding some extra instruction text)
I'd really like to know what you thought of the final boss, but perhaps in spoiler tags or private discussion :)
Oh man... so apparently I played the game with a debug setup. No wonder I found it odd that there so were few "real" choices when upgrading. Well, at least I got to see the whole game, but that certainly affected my opinion of it. I did discover that Freeze++ is pretty much the most powerful thing in the game. Playing again would no doubt be more challenging without having it right away.
I'll PM you about the queen.
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Goldfish, by ondras (http://youtu.be/uHAnV1XAIYM)
Overall Thoughts:
It plays great, it's simple enough to do without having additional information, and it provides great atmosphere. On the other hand, once you know what to do, it's probably a ten-minute game (at least that's assuming the fisherman are limited). You could possibly have more in it with very few changes, like gaining extra goldfish as part of some kind of automated group, which would also be equippable. It might be going too far but I can see something along those lines playing out without affecting the pace of the game too much. What's there now is fine, I suppose I'm just yearning for more. It's always great to see creative themes in these games, and Goldfish is certainly something you won't sea often!
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Sand Dune Monster, by henson (http://youtu.be/vGSCfl0icgs)
Overall Thoughts:
What else is there to say: the game's not really ready enough to be a roguelike, or much of a game at all. It definitely fits the term of "tech demo". What I mention in the video and its comments says enough. I do hope more work is done on it, however, because the base for graphics and the overall mapping/background is really nice.
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I love it how every video starts with a struggle to pronounce something... cracks me up haha.
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Goldfish is certainly something you won't sea often!
Groan! ;D
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What else is there to say: the game's not really ready enough to be a roguelike, or much of a game at all. It definitely fits the term of "tech demo".
That's what you think! ;) Someone has given it a 3 for roguelike and 3 for innovation.....
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Succession, by Adam Perry (http://youtu.be/2xs8mN22o1Q)
Overall Thoughts:
This game has a odd, contemporary charm about it that really grabs me. I don't know how else to describe it, unfortunately! It's just built together lightly but has a much deeper rhythm once you get going, I dunno.
Also, the difficulties here are actually something I think I'd like to see in more roguelikes, or at least along these fundamental lines. It's easy to make difficulties occur as the rebalancing of stats, but this game has very set and very obvious considerations for each difficulty: always starting from scratch, starting from exactly what killed you, starting with a bonus, and accumulating that bonus (from hardest to easiest, respectively). Players choose something and adjusts themselves based on how well they're doing, then can return for a harder challenge later on if they find it easier after learning how to play. Lots of games try to make difficulty level but Succession is one of the few that does it right. (And yes, that means there's no how-to on correctly creating difficulty rungs: it has to be fit to the game.)
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What else is there to say: the game's not really ready enough to be a roguelike, or much of a game at all. It definitely fits the term of "tech demo".
That's what you think! ;) Someone has given it a 3 for roguelike and 3 for innovation.....
I guess it's my opinion, but I couldn't make the game do anything other than that one map, and what's there isn't much of anything with regards to an interesting challenge. If there IS more to the game, I don't mind replaying.
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I guess it's my opinion, but I couldn't make the game do anything other than that one map, and what's there isn't much of anything with regards to an interesting challenge. If there IS more to the game, I don't mind replaying.
nah, I think you're right. My experience playing it was exactly the same. I actually played it because it got that relatively good review and was left wondering where the game was.
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Yea I don't think you're wrong there. I was just musing on the bizarre ratings.
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Succession, by Adam Perry (http://youtu.be/2xs8mN22o1Q)
Overall Thoughts:
This game has a odd, contemporary charm about it that really grabs me. I don't know how else to describe it, unfortunately! It's just built together lightly but has a much deeper rhythm once you get going, I dunno.
Also, the difficulties here are actually something I think I'd like to see in more roguelikes, or at least along these fundamental lines. It's easy to make difficulties occur as the rebalancing of stats, but this game has very set and very obvious considerations for each difficulty: always starting from scratch, starting from exactly what killed you, starting with a bonus, and accumulating that bonus (from hardest to easiest, respectively). Players choose something and adjusts themselves based on how well they're doing, then can return for a harder challenge later on if they find it easier after learning how to play. Lots of games try to make difficulty level but Succession is one of the few that does it right. (And yes, that means there's no how-to on correctly creating difficulty rungs: it has to be fit to the game.)
Thanks for the review! It's always cool to watch as someone "gets" your game (and frustrating when they don't, which luckily wasn't the case here :)).