Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Game Discussion => Traditional Roguelikes (Turn-based) => Topic started by: Amnekian on August 21, 2013, 11:52:25 AM
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My vote goes to DoomRL for sure.
Tons of content (weapons, secret weapons, extra levels)
Depth (the side-stepping mechanic is great! along side other gameplay mechanics)
Sweet tiles with sweet sounds/music.
Incursion...whenever I think of Incursion I think of Obiwan saying "Nooo! You were the chose one!" but alas it has fallen into development "pause".
What are your picks?
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Incursion. Definitely. If only it wasn't dead....
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Cataclysm seems to have a fairly huge following, even if for some reason it hasn't caught up here too much. Definitely major, if you ask me :)
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None. There were no significant achievements in the genre since ADOM.
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Cataclysm seems to have a fairly huge following, even if for some reason it hasn't caught up here too much. Definitely major, if you ask me :)
I agree completely.
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Incursion...whenever I think of Incursion I think of Obiwan saying "Nooo! You were the chose one!" but alas it has fallen into development "pause".
Yeah, this is how I feel too.
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I'd never heard of Incursion before but after all the mentions of it around here, I have to give it a try ('paused' or not).
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Cataclysm DDA isn't stable enough, nor does it really have a clear enough vision. imho. Atm it is suffering from clear more is more. And the threat level has been reduced considerable as there have been a lot of new items and recipes included, but not that much new monsters and high level threats.
Or at least it was the last time I took a gander at the code.
So I would not upgrade it to major just yet. Wait a year, see how the kickstarter funded development resolves.
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I'd never heard of Incursion before but after all the mentions of it around here, I have to give it a try ('paused' or not).
It's not so much paused as officially confirmed dead and buried by the one man developing it.
From a gameplay perspective it has some fucking fantastic things. From a presentation perspective also. Interface was right up my alley.
General instability and being dead are pretty much the only things that bring it down.
As for the Topic:
None. The distinction between minor and major has always been about community and legacy, in my eyes. Aside from promoting ToME4 and DCSS to major, there's really not much sense in fiddling around with who is major/minor and who isn't.
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It's not so much paused as officially confirmed dead and buried by the one man developing it.
From a gameplay perspective it has some fucking fantastic things. From a presentation perspective also. Interface was right up my alley.
General instability and being dead are pretty much the only things that bring it down.
I wonder what makes people do things like this one. To have a potentially great game and just stop working on it. I have read the official statement, but everybody knows that official statements are always a bunch of lies. I'd like to read the guy's mind.
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Cataclysm DDA isn't stable enough, nor does it really have a clear enough vision.
Yeah, this is how I feel too.
I wonder what makes people do things like this one. To have a potentially great game and just stop working on it. I have read the official statement, but everybody knows that official statements are always a bunch of lies. I'd like to read the guy's mind.
He set his own expectations impossibly high. There's no way he wasn't going to burn out with how things were going.
Like, he gave himself impossible goals to begin with, but then after making an impressive amount of progress he decided to instead write his own programming language and then rewrite the game in that.
I might not have all the details exactly right, but it's something like that, anyway.
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The scary thing is he actually generally succeeded with creating his own programming language for the game AND the engine for it using it---ludicrous talent(It slim to never happens in terms of homebrewing that programming combo the world over these few decades that gaming has even been a thing and one after another...period, even with the "standing on the shoulders of giants that have come before you" notion in play), plenty of vision for the project....but whisked away into the weeds of then designing on other things and the ravages of time and scheduling for how long all of that took to do by himself.
I wish he'd have done some teaser snippets at the very least as I think a positive feedback loop would've changed the fates a bit compared to in a vacuum with the "massive delays, but private progress and further scoping" posts. There are seldom few projects out there that could've had more folks jazzed up with only even just some character creation videos or streams stepping through the wealth of new possibilities and improvements and whatnot without even getting to the still raw gameplay. :'(
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I wonder what makes people do things like this one. To have a potentially great game and just stop working on it. I have read the official statement, but everybody knows that official statements are always a bunch of lies. I'd like to read the guy's mind.
That sounds like a great setting for a roguelike. There was a great roguelike project called Incursion. Very promising. It had a potential for greatness. And it was abandoned. Why? You swear to discover the secret and resurrect it, no matter the means!
Skills:
Programming: Generally useful skill.
Business: Lots of cash might allow you to persuade the dev to continue working, or to release the source.
Mind Control: Understand the reasons for abandoning the work, or force the dev to continue working.
Cracking: An outlawed method of gaining information. At high levels you could even steal the source code.
Combat: Also a generally useful skill.
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Hmmm....
I betcha Incursion could get $5-$10k minimum on kickstarter...
EDIT: Especially if it said, "If I succeed I'll release the source to all..."
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Hmmm....
I betcha Incursion could get $5-$10k minimum on kickstarter...
EDIT: Especially if it said, "If I succeed I'll release the source to all..."
Yup, so true.
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EDIT: Especially if it said, "If I succeed I'll release the source to all..."
Do you expect to find something special in the source or just want to make sure somebody will continue the development?
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The hope that someone would continue if the developer did not.
But I think it's in a special language, which might sorta be a hindrance to another person developing.
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But I think it's in a special language, which might sorta be a hindrance to another person developing.
Yeah. I used to work in a company which has developed it's own scripting language and it was pretty cool, but I'd never go using such a language in my game knowing that the main developer of the language has dropped the project and there's basically no support for it.
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Hmmm....
I betcha Incursion could get $5-$10k minimum on kickstarter...
EDIT: Especially if it said, "If I succeed I'll release the source to all..."
I bet you that there will never be such a kickstarter. I bet you we will never see the source to Incursion. I bet you that you take what you get when it comes to games you got for free in the first place, because you probably got it worse with some game you bought.
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Hmmm....
I betcha Incursion could get $5-$10k minimum on kickstarter...
EDIT: Especially if it said, "If I succeed I'll release the source to all..."
I bet you that there will never be such a kickstarter. I bet you we will never see the source to Incursion. I bet you that you take what you get when it comes to games you got for free in the first place, because you probably got it worse with some game you bought.
I am afraid that you're right.
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None. There were no significant achievements in the genre since ADOM.
very interesting I tend to agree (with some cavets; Brogue but it seems to be a distilation and perfection more than advancement)
but would like to hear your arguments.
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None. There were no significant achievements in the genre since ADOM.
very interesting I tend to agree (with some cavets; Brogue but it seems to be a distilation and perfection more than advancement)
but would like to hear your arguments.
I'm afraid this is not possible. If one thinks there were any achievements, he can just list it. But in the opposite case the only thing to do is giving counterarguments. I just play game by game only to conclude it's another clone of Rogue with nice visuals, UI improvements and a Facebook button. Dwarf Fortress is one of the few truly innovative games, but it has little to do with roguelikes.
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None. There were no significant achievements in the genre since ADOM.
very interesting I tend to agree (with some cavets; Brogue but it seems to be a distilation and perfection more than advancement)
but would like to hear your arguments.
I'm afraid this is not possible. If one thinks there were any achievements, he can just list it. But in the opposite case the only thing to do is giving counterarguments. I just play game by game only to conclude it's another clone of Rogue with nice visuals, UI improvements and a Facebook button. Dwarf Fortress is one of the few truly innovative games, but it has little to do with roguelikes.
I'm not sure how anyone could write this paragraph and actually have kept up with the genre.
Edit: Ah shit. TROLLED. Lol, nice one.
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very interesting I tend to agree (with some cavets; Brogue but it seems to be a distilation and perfection more than advancement)
but would like to hear your arguments.
Perfection is advancement. Refining existing concepts is as important as (imo more important than) creating new ones.
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very interesting I tend to agree (with some cavets; Brogue but it seems to be a distilation and perfection more than advancement)
but would like to hear your arguments.
Perfection is advancement. Refining existing concepts is as important as (imo more important than) creating new ones.
It of course is semantic and most likely an illusion of categories.
-I am defining refinement as the whittling down to essentials and advancement as innovation.
A sufficiently "advanced" rogue-style game just would not be recognizable as a rogue-like.
Dwarf-fortress and FTL come to mind both make it to my to ten list neither is really linked to rogue/larn/hack/omega.
The innovations set them outside the genre.
Perhaps Rogue-like is a Genre with a ceiling.
making a musical analogy blue grass with tubas, thermins and trap drums might be cool as hell
but at some point it just is not bluegrass.
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I also mourn the "shelved" message for Incursion greatly. It is my personal favourite. I would also argue here is where most of your/the significant achievements (you do not see) have been made.
And Cataclysm has been mentioned in here rightfully as well. It is great!
I will add UnRealWorld _not_ just because I can.
O_o Crawl is proclaimed major here already. Which does read DCSS to me (as well).
I must say I find this major, not yet major distinction made here pretty silly, though, much like if people get caught up
in "it's (not) a roguelike because"... lol, in the end my opinion is what counts here for me.
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I also mourn the "shelved" message for Incursion greatly. It is my personal favourite. I would also argue here is where most of your/the significant achievements (you do not see) have been made.
Have you considered trying out/contributing to Veins of the Earth? We're trying to recreate the goodness that is Incursion in an easily moddable engine and in an open source way...
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Have you considered trying out/contributing to Veins of the Earth? We're trying to recreate the goodness that is Incursion in an easily moddable engine and in an open source way...
Never played Veins of the Earth but I got curious on how can one contribute to it?
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Have you considered trying out/contributing to Veins of the Earth? We're trying to recreate the goodness that is Incursion in an easily moddable engine and in an open source way...
Never played Veins of the Earth but I got curious on how can one contribute to it?
1) We need some tiles - I'm not much of an artist and I think around 10 monsters are still missing tiles.
2) There are issues listed here (https://github.com/Zireael07/The-Veins-of-the-Earth/issues), if you know some Lua, you could help us with fixing them (by sending pull requests via git or just posting your patches to the feedback thread)
3) Some of the game's inner workings are explained in here (https://github.com/Zireael07/The-Veins-of-the-Earth/blob/master/MODDING.md) so that you can contribute new items/spells/egos/whatever
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Not much comes to mind, to me a 'major' roguelike is something that has lasting endurance and gameplay over a long period of time. Dwarf Fortress definitely qualifies in that sense but with all the usual questions about whether it qualifies as a roguelike.
Maybe give Sil or Brogue another 2-3 years in the pot and they might be major roguelikes.
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yes, brogue's forum has few enough people that it shouldn't count as major yet.
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Pixel Dungeon and POWDER, because they are the premier roguelikes on their respective platforms (Android and GBA/DS).
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I will conduct a massive "active players" survey soon in order to (probably) update the situation on roguelike majorness to 2014.