Temple of The Roguelike Forums

Development => Programming => Topic started by: Robbie Ogrenix on June 06, 2013, 06:03:57 AM

Title: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Robbie Ogrenix on June 06, 2013, 06:03:57 AM
Hello, there.  My name is Robbie Ogrenix and I'm an independent game developer and long-time roguelike enthusiast.  This is my first time posting anything here.  I'll be sure to make a proper introduction post, too.

For the last six months or so I've been working with a small team to make a real-time sidescrolling RPG.  Things have been going great and progress, while somewhat slow, has been steady.  Soon enough, I thought, we may be ready for a public release.  Unfortunately, there's been something of a hurdle thrown in our path: our lead programmer had to retire from the project.

Now we have this handsome little project with big ideas, a well-established C++ codebase, a playable build and a dedicated team that still consists of about five artists, musicians and programmers.  Even so, losing the lead programmer has us in a bit of a pickle.

Any programmer out there who thinks they may be able to contribute is encouraged to reply or PM!  I'll humor any questions and will give the current playable binary out freely to those who are interested.  Thanks for your time reading!
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Krice on June 06, 2013, 02:14:27 PM
What are the roguelike features in that game? It's a commercial project?
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Robbie Ogrenix on June 06, 2013, 08:21:35 PM
Thanks for the reply!  The game features permadeath, random dungeon generation, variable equipment attributes and the need to ID equipment, among other roguelike features.

No, it is not a commercial project, although a Kickstarter campaign for funding is planned.  About 3-4 months more work will be needed before it is ready for that kind of endeavor, maybe more depending on how fast we get the ball rolling again.

If you PM me your contact info I would be more than happy to send you the most recent version!
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Robbie Ogrenix on June 14, 2013, 05:07:33 AM
We are still looking for that special someone to head the code development.  We've got musicians/audio engineers and artists who are getting bored.  There has to be someone out there who can help!  This project is still alive and kicking, but we need a primary programmer badly.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: TheCreator on June 14, 2013, 10:21:04 AM
A question out of curiosity: why has the lead programmer left?
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Krice on June 14, 2013, 10:48:20 AM
It can be difficult to find a good programmer who isn't already taken by commercial world with its money and lust. Also, often people like roguelike programmers are working alone, because their ego is too big for team work.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Darren Grey on June 14, 2013, 10:58:29 AM
Also, often people like roguelike programmers are working alone, because their ego is too big for team work.

And we like to work at our own pace, and on things that interests us alone.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: eclectocrat on June 14, 2013, 01:13:45 PM
Also, often people like roguelike programmers are working alone, because their ego is too big for team work.

And we like to work at our own pace, and on things that interests us alone.

Why am I sad that this is so true for me? Maybe I should learn the art of compromise... :0
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Robbie Ogrenix on June 14, 2013, 03:31:52 PM
@ Uglytroll: The programmer left because he no longer had the free time to commit to the game.  It was sad, but these things happen.  He had told me that when his work picks back up he would have to retire.  We both just thought it would happen a little later than it did.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: zasvid on June 14, 2013, 04:56:45 PM
Also, often people like roguelike programmers are working alone, because their ego is too big for team work.

And we like to work at our own pace, and on things that interests us alone.

Though it could lead to great things if at least sometimes we didn't! Teamwork could accomplish great things that alonework probably cannot.

On the other hand, there's another reef that makes it harder to gather a crack team of roguelike developers: they wouldn't agree on which technology to use!

Anyway, I'd be interested in picking up this if I had more free time. Unfortunately, I have none for the foreseeable future (well, I have some, but already earmarked for my own roguelike).
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Robbie Ogrenix on June 14, 2013, 08:26:46 PM
Well, in the meantime, we are still pushing forward without any real codemaster.  There are still two competent programmers chipping away at the to-do list -- We just need someone who is able to dedicate the time to make themselves the in-house authority on the subject of code.  A person with one part experience, one part common sense and a bit of leadership.

Still, this project won't die.  We'll keep on trudging forward until our various efforts to find someone bear fruit.  At this rate it could be a while.  Seems like professional-quality workers with unlimited free time are hard to come by.  (Who would have thought?)
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: TheCreator on June 17, 2013, 05:48:43 AM
@ Uglytroll: The programmer left because he no longer had the free time to commit to the game.  It was sad, but these things happen.  He had told me that when his work picks back up he would have to retire.  We both just thought it would happen a little later than it did.

People always say they have no free time. Of course they have no free time. Time is not free, time is precious :). I think this is a more subtle way to say "sorry guys, this project no longer interests me". Which leads to another question, what is wrong with the project? If this is something serious, the next programmer may quit as well.

Anyway, I can give you a piece of advise. When you want to hire someone, tell more about your project. You haven't provided too many details, except that the game is an RPG and is written in C++. That may sound great for newbie programmers, but experts may want to know exactly where they're sticking their fingers ;). Which platform is your target? What libraries you use? Which version control system? How do you communicate in the team? How have you been organizing your work so far? The more details, the better.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: kraflab on June 17, 2013, 11:13:52 AM
@ Uglytroll: The programmer left because he no longer had the free time to commit to the game.  It was sad, but these things happen.  He had told me that when his work picks back up he would have to retire.  We both just thought it would happen a little later than it did.

People always say they have no free time. Of course they have no free time. Time is not free, time is precious :). I think this is a more subtle way to say "sorry guys, this project no longer interests me". Which leads to another question, what is wrong with the project? If this is something serious, the next programmer may quit as well.

Anyway, I can give you a piece of advise. When you want to hire someone, tell more about your project. You haven't provided too many details, except that the game is an RPG and is written in C++. That may sound great for newbie programmers, but experts may want to know exactly where they're sticking their fingers ;). Which platform is your target? What libraries you use? Which version control system? How do you communicate in the team? How have you been organizing your work so far? The more details, the better.

Yep, the easiest way to not interest me is to show no screenshots and give no details :P
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Robbie Ogrenix on June 19, 2013, 02:47:29 AM
Ugly Troll: I would tend to agree with that assessment, and I certainly don't want to sound defensive.  However, the case here is primarily that why he left involves his personal affairs and I don't feel compelled to divulge the specifics behind exactly why his time became strained.  Suffice to say he told me even prior to his engagement with the project that it would need to be a temporary arrangement.

It's true, I need to provide some more information, I suppose.  Generally, I dislike posting such things blindly and far prefer to do it privately.  However, I do understand that a philosophy such as that puts the work of selling the project's worth into the hands of the very people I am trying to solicit.

I will post again with much detail regarding this game.  In fact, I'll ask the previous code lead to offer a quote regarding his decision to stop actively programming for the title, too.

Until I finish that post, anyone interested in information is welcome to join us on our Wiggio, where the current version is available alongside all resources used.

http://wiggio.com/group_open_join.php?groupid=1547056&password=ADOM&ref=1498374
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Etinarg on June 20, 2013, 12:48:48 PM
I have no idea really, but this part of the URL looks suspicious to me: password=ADOM

Not sure what kind of security system this is supposed to be, and if you want to spread passwords this way?

To consider joing a team, besides the technical details that were already pointed out, I would like to hear more about the game. Does it have a background story? In which sort of world is it placed? Will the player control a single character or a group? What sorts of races, classes, skill systems, magic systems, abilities etc. etc. are being designed? Who's the intended audience?

Unless eomeone is very desperately looking for a programming job to fill excess time, I strongly assume they want to know what they will be working on.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: daver64 on June 23, 2013, 12:38:42 AM
Well. I was interested enough to click the link , but it's asking me for my email which I prefer not to give at this stage. I think you need to sort out these barriers to finding out about the project for those of us who are programmers with interest.

Cheers
Dave.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: ekolis on June 23, 2013, 03:33:53 AM
To add to the inquiries, why does a roguelike need a "lead programmer" and what I assume is a project manager? How complex is this game, anyway?
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Robbie Ogrenix on June 25, 2013, 02:56:56 AM
Okay, here's some further information.  More is on the way.

GENERAL INFORMATION ===================================
Project Name:                       Corrupt
Genre:                                   roguelike platformer
Player(s):                              1

License:                                Freeware
Source:                                Closed
Platform:                              Windows PC
Language:                            C++
Libraries:                              SFML (Media control)
Engine:                                Corrupt original
Version Control Software:    SVN (Tortoise)
=====================================================
SCREENSHOTS ==========================================

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/titleanimation_zpsf4b1693a.gif)
The title animation for the project.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/Corruptscreen1_zpsbb40c215.png)
Title screen.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/Corruptscreen2_zps8be0b592.png)
The interface for naming the PC.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/Corruptscreen5_zps5ba1e3c7.png)
The equipment menu.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/Corruptscreen6_zps0f58d98e.png)
The map.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/Corruptscreen4_zpsf17cf6ae.png)
The main in-game menu.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/Corruptscreen8_zpsd97e5506.png)
Debug mode.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/Newpickupbox_zps2ea007ec.png)
Item pick-up prompt.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/Corruptscreen9_zps1be79fd6.png)
A PC taking some damage.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/levelup_zps3621b103.png)
Level advancement screen.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/Corruptscreen7_zpse3453e98.png)
Control configuration screen.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/Mapeditor_zpsa58d558a.png)
Map editor.

(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y469/r_ogrenix/Animationeditor_zpscf61b52c.png)
Animation editor.

@ekolis: The staff is broken into divisions: A code division, a sound division and an art division.  With a number of team members within each division it becomes easier for a general manager when he or she has the help of several competent and dedicated leaders.  Sadly, the code lead had to return to their day job.  Considering freeware development pays less than it should, I can't say I blame him.  He is still available on the group IRC channel from time to time -- Anyone is welcome to drop in and say hi!

See us at "#projectcorruption @ irc.esper.net"!

If anyone has any further questions, I'd love to hear them!
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Etinarg on June 25, 2013, 12:24:39 PM
Somehow the team structure looks way oversized for this project. How many people are working on this?

Spelunky, a quite successful and fairly roguelike platformer was made by one or two people if I remember right.

I'd suggest to change the structure from the divisions to "group", and start working together, and not in isolated towers?
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Robbie Ogrenix on June 25, 2013, 06:55:59 PM
@Hajo: In total, there are nine people working on the project.  I don't want to give the impression that this project is as small in scheme or scope as Spelunky -- There is plenty of work to keep a group of this size busy, presuming we can secure another programmer.

Though, these towers aren't as isolated as you may imagine.  Regular in-group and cross-group meetings help to keep it more intimate.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: kraflab on June 25, 2013, 09:44:14 PM
I don't want to give the impression that this project is as small in scheme or scope as Spelunky

Um, what?  ???
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Robbie Ogrenix on June 26, 2013, 02:07:29 AM
Quote
    I don't want to give the impression that this project is as small in scheme or scope as Spelunky
Um, what?  ???

It's a comparison.  It doesn't necessarily mean Spelunky is a small project.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Etinarg on June 26, 2013, 08:24:46 AM
With a team of nine, and so many in the sound and art departement, I'd expect something like Torchlight (http://www.torchlightgame.com/) as result.

But you still didn't say much about the game itself, the setting, the story, the features which make it special. The screenshots look like quite generic, to be honest.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Krice on June 26, 2013, 10:01:13 AM
@Hajo: In total, there are nine people working on the project.

I don't want to be rude, but it looks like that programmer was the only guy who made actual progress. No wonder he left the project, probably got tired of hanging out with you. I've seen this before, a bunch of random guys who want to create a game, but they don't have skills to do it.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Robbie Ogrenix on June 26, 2013, 05:08:07 PM
@Krice:  That was pretty rude, actually.  There is an appropriate way to state your opinions and that wasn't it.  In addition to being ill-informed, that comment was pretty harsh.

Thanks anyway, guys and girls.  I'll start looking somewhere more productive.  See you around, when the game goes public and you start playing it.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: getter77 on June 26, 2013, 09:09:31 PM
I would recommend the TIGSource Dev forums---though be advised that they will also quite likely want even more of an informational outline than even here especially considering the team size and aspirations.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Etinarg on June 27, 2013, 12:04:09 PM
I feel curious how the current team met in the first place. I mean they already found had a programmer (or some), why do they now look in a forum where they haven't been active before?

Maybe Robbie Ogrenix will keep us updated. Or we peek at TIGSOurce what happens, it's just a click away ;)
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: kraflab on June 27, 2013, 06:28:16 PM
Thanks anyway, guys and girls.  I'll start looking somewhere more productive.  See you around, when the game goes public and you start playing it.

Just for future reference, this is absolutely the wrong way to respond to a Krice.  It just makes you look bad for no reason.  His words were harsh, but also relatively accurate based on the information given to us (as is his way ;)).  It looks like programmer art and you have a team of artists.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: daver64 on June 28, 2013, 12:09:52 AM
"  I'll start looking somewhere more productive.  See you around, when the game goes public and you start playing it."


Well, I won't be playing it now, that's for sure, and I certainly have lost interest in applying as this comment indicates to me Krice was spot on the money.

Good luck with it though.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Vanguard on June 28, 2013, 03:06:24 PM
Y'all are too presumptuous.
Title: Re: My roguelike lost it's lead programmer!
Post by: Etinarg on July 02, 2013, 09:24:23 AM
Y'all are too presumptuous.

I don't remember who told me this, and I forgot the right wroding. But the meaning was like this: "If you aren't convinced about your abilities (work), how can you convince someone else about your abilities (work)?"

Roguelike (and more general any sort of) developers must be presumptuous to some degree, I think. And they will compare others to their own (assumed) skills and abilities.