Temple of The Roguelike Forums

Game Discussion => Early Dev => Topic started by: jasonpickering on January 22, 2013, 07:51:46 PM

Title: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on January 22, 2013, 07:51:46 PM: (http://i50.tinypic.com/2d9p4wx.png)

Latest Build (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/21825227/Prototypes/Miner_prototype.swf)
1/27/13

Controls:
Move = Arrows or WASD
R = Reset

so on weekends I usually goof around with small game prototypes and I made this. You basically drive around a vehicle collecting gems and mining. You have an energy meter and can refill the meter by buying more energy at the little green box with crystals. there is really nothing to it yet, you don't die at zero as you should and there is no other areas to explore (Use space to reload the level). Just thought I might ask what you guys think. I might extend it into a full game. Not sure yet.

if I do extend it you would probably go from asteroid to asteroid mining. each move costs 1 energy and each rock costs 3 and the asteroids would probably get larger and with scarcer gems. and maybe a shop to help the player.
Title: Re: Small RL Demo
Post by: st33d on January 22, 2013, 09:58:41 PM: quite like the mining mechanic

after playing Corrypt are you going to allow towing back tanks that get stranded?
Title: Re: Small RL Demo
Post by: jasonpickering on January 22, 2013, 10:19:55 PM: Not sure, but I did like the idea of moving the green base around, but then the balance of just always dragging it around vs leaving it is tough. Although dropping off discarded tanks randomly or even from past runs could be good if they held small bits of energy or crystals, Loot them for items.

I thought a little more about this and thought of maybe giving the payer a shop with upgrades but the player can only carry a few upgrades. Carry more energy, get more energy when recharging, carry more crystals, get a better price for crystals.

I was also thinking of allowing players to sell their crystals for money, money would effectively act as the players score. So basically they could turn in their crystals for upgrades, energy, or score.
Title: Re: Small RL Demo
Post by: jasonpickering on January 25, 2013, 10:17:57 PM: played around with this some more. Still not sure where to take it. I really liked the Resource management in games like Fuel, Desktop Dungeons (unexplored spaces) and the like.

I think the main theme I want is that feeling of driving around, low on fuel hoping to make it to the next station. before your machine dies in this god forsaken wasteland. How easy that will be to capture is another story. I also want it to be just survive as long and as far as you can.
Title: Re: Small RL Demo
Post by: jasonpickering on January 26, 2013, 03:29:10 AM: Updated with a store now. walk into the green battery thing to open it. You can select button one to recharge, Button two to increase Max Energy or the arrow to go to the next floor. The cost increases each floor, so be warned of that.

the map generation is super bad at the moment and needs to be redone. Its pretty poor. Many times there are crystals you can not get to and sometimes you might even be spawned in a bad spot.

Going to add Some Wrecks. they will be randomly placed and give you something like Crystals, Max Energy or a recharge.

you can hit R to reset
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on January 26, 2013, 07:07:37 PM: More Fixes, Added Wrecks which will give random loot. I also added some screen effects to make the game look much older.

I am still playing with the idea of score. Originally it was going to be for how far you got, each floor being a point, but I have not decided how the player should go to the next floor. but the player basically starts at the stairs so I need to think of a reason for the player to venture out and then to return.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on January 26, 2013, 09:51:22 PM: Well after adding the wreckage I liked finding that and I think that helps with the mechanic of scoring too. so I am thinking of adding survivors and moving the game away theme wise from mining to saving these stranded people. So each level will have a number of people to save, and after saving them you can go to the next level. and save more people. You will still be plowing through rocks and collecting crystals, The people will just act as the key to the door to the next floor mechanically.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: guest509 on January 27, 2013, 04:14:26 AM: I always liked the 'find the key get to the door' game flow. Gives you a good reason to explore around a bit.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on January 27, 2013, 04:41:04 PM: Updated with the survivors to rescue now. I changed the mechanics a bit so you drive into spaces now instead of just breaking the rocks. feels a little better now. Not sure if I will keep the symbol in the bottom corner when you rescue a guy. I need something to tell the player they have rescued the person but not sure if thats the best way to go about it. probably something in the top UI.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: st33d on January 27, 2013, 08:38:35 PM: I quite like this. Scored 7.

Some keys to operate the shop would be nice - or responding to clicks for movement. Just so I don't have to switch from mouse to keys all the time.

Although having some fancy algorithm calculate how far you're from home would defeat the point, some coordinates would be helpful as well. It makes navigating home a little less confusing.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on January 27, 2013, 09:32:29 PM: Yeah, I need to add in mouse movements, I have the code written from other projects just need to copy it over. Maybe the next update will have that in.

I have been thinking about some extra stuff to add at the game. I think one thing that I will add will be some type of arrow system that points in the direction of the guy. it wont be exact, just like a north arrow. giving you an idea of where to go. and it will probably be a special that costs energy.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on January 28, 2013, 02:27:00 AM: Added in full mouse controls now. as well as changing the rock asset. I need to redo the timing situation now. it has a few problems now.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on January 29, 2013, 04:20:23 AM: still tweaking this. i kind of don't know what to add at the moment. I like all the mechanics I think I just need to fix it a bit to get the balance right. I was thinking of doing some different vehicles. maybe giving them some different special moves or something. Not sure. I feel like the player doesn't have many choices now with what to do with the crystals. buy more Max Energy then recharge. Repeat.

@st33d
some people have told me to turn this into a designed game of driving around saving people and destroying rocks. similar to your Turnament
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on January 31, 2013, 07:18:34 PM: well went back to the drawing board and started planning this out more. I am so stuck at the moment beause I am afraid to throw anything out, so that has caused a bit of a mental block. some things I am thinking of on my new build through

1. Rocks are enemies - Rocks work similar to stationary enemies. they drain your HP (Energy) if you try and destroy them. I think with this in mind I can move forward and think of more interesting ways to remove "enemies".

2. Limit the amount of recharging - the initial levels are really not important, aside from building up your max energy. I think this can be changed. But I need to be more careful about what uses energy, so I will probably drop just driving around causing energy consumption. I am also thinking in terms of recharging like in Desktop dungeons. Perhaps adding gems which recharge you, but limit their amount on the landscape.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: Paul Jeffries on February 01, 2013, 12:31:32 AM: I quite like it, but it seems like there's not a whole lot to it yet - there's a bit of challenge to the route planning but other than that I didn't feel like I was making too many difficult decisions. Even the shop choice felt a bit obvious - upgrade if I have the spare cash, otherwise just refuel.

A couple of ideas:
- To add a layer more strategy, how about being able to buy droppable 'beacons' (or whatever) that act the same as the shop. So, you can place them down at strategic locations as a kind of 'base camp' that lets you explore further afield.
- Explosive rocks, that when you mine them also take out all adjacent rocks 'for free'.
- Lava. Slowly spreads out and will destroy crystals and kill people, but is contained by rocks - you have to be careful not to unleash it accidentally.
- Rival AI miners that you have to compete against.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on February 01, 2013, 02:19:09 AM: yeah I really want to add more strategy. I want to add the beacons. but have not thought of a good system for adding that yet. Right now I have added crumbled areas. once you step off one of those spots it crumbles away and shows lava underneath, so that path is blocked. I am also going to change up the shop a bit. It really doesn't have much excitement to it, as you don't have many choices.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on February 02, 2013, 03:04:43 AM: So big update. Completely redid the engine to deal with some of the problems I was having code wise. The shop has been removed for now. I need to find a better way to do it. so after each level you get a bonus to energy and each time you go to the shop you are revived. gems are pointless at the moment, until I figure out the shop system. Then I really need to build a map generating algorithm. its terrible at the moment.

shop system coming up soon!! feedback welcome.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: st33d on February 03, 2013, 10:59:59 PM: Yea, not a fan of no-shop. The whole fun of mining is micro-managing your resources. Debating on whether to spend my cash on fuel or upgrades was the best bit.

I disagree with making set challenges in this, that's not mining. Imagine if Minecraft had prefab maps or the world was made of jigsaw chunks. How boring would that be to go searching for resources? Which brings me back to the shop thing again - Minecraft's shop is its crafting screen.

You could perhaps add different types of resources - like how Starcraft has gas as well as minerals, the gas being very different to mine and offering a different tier of rewards.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on February 04, 2013, 12:30:40 AM: yeah. I have a new build to put up soon, but its pretty different.

I dropped the idea or rescuing guys, because I was thinking of making it so you didn't have to rescue all the guys and it took focus off the original mining idea. so I basically swapped out the survivors for Gems. with a much smaller amount of things to mine.

I added a cargo system also. the player is allowed to carry one gem at a time, but through upgrades they will be able to carry up to 3 at once.

I have made a large list of possible upgrades to add to the game, and I am thinking of maybe giving the player one possible upgrade more similar to a spell and selling them in the shop or giving the player the choice at the start of the game (different Vehicles) allowing for some difference in feel during a playthrough. (Think different Races in Desktop Dungeons)

Possible Upgrades:
- Solar Panels - Every 5 moves gain back 1 energy
- Start with extra Cargo space
- Point to nearest Crystal
(if I do different vehicles I will probably change the Energy Max to balance out the upgrades too.)

Still thinking about one thing though, and that's levels. If I should give one gigantic level with like 100 crystals in it
or just do smaller levels you travel from place to place. I feel like the Larger Level would be better, as the player gets desperate trying to get all the crystals and having exhausted everything near your "Base". Also I am trying to think of a way to allow the player to move the base, or at least build recharge stations somehow.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on February 06, 2013, 05:20:16 AM: updated the build. still working out the shop system. I wanted crystal collection to be the primary goal, but then I don't know if that should also be the shop currency. Having the player make the choice of buying upgrades or banking the crstals into their score, could be interesting, but I am not sure how it will feel. The other idea is going with two types of currency. I have thought about maybe doing "Tech Boxes" scattered around. these can be spent on upgrades.

I also need to figure out the recharge system. if it should be a free action or the player should have to pay for it.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: st33d on February 06, 2013, 08:00:47 PM: Only picking up one gem at a time gets a bit tedious. Free fuel was nice but it just turned into a lawn mowing game. I mean, if you've got infinite food you might as well scrub the whole area clean - just to reduce the cost of any future journeys.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: Nymphaea on February 06, 2013, 08:53:39 PM: I agree, the game seems much easier and repetitive. I also miss the old meteorite sprites.

Upgrades and some kind of goal would definitely be nice. Maybe competition for the gems, making you have to somehow cause them problems with collecting gems. Could also make some of the upgrades weapons or tools to distract (A shovel to push rocks, or adding an oil slick or other traps). Just random ideas :P Maybe also bridges, for placing over holes (I had some impossible levels in the old rescue version, because of crack placement)

Also... were the numbers new, or always there? I swear I don't remember them xD
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on February 06, 2013, 09:35:01 PM: St33d:
yeah, its weird that the gems are tedious as where the people never really got tedious. I wonder why that is. might have something to do with the abundance of gems on the level. where as there were only 1 or 2 people, they felt much rarer so it felt right to only pick up one at a time. I also agree about the fuel. I jsut have not figures out a proper system to charge for fuel.

Nymphaea:
yeah a lot of people read them as tree trunks and not rocks so I changed them.

I definetly need to add in the overall gameplay loop as well as solve the current one. I was thinking the competition, but I wanted to force that idea of lonliness, of you by yourself on this asteroid and having a bunch of other people romaing around, makes it into more of a race.

Still stuck on this though. The game felt much better when you had a limited currency for upgrades and an item to collect to move on. Thematically the gems work better then the survivors, but gameplay wise it feels very bland. I think going forward I am going to drop the level size. I am also thinking about doing away with recharging. Giving the player a larger cache of energy and sending them out. the goal being to collect as many gems as possible and get back to base before you run dry. returning to base would then send to the next level. then adding a shop in between each level. there will be no Cargo limit and the goal will be just making a large sweep of the area.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: Nymphaea on February 06, 2013, 10:54:45 PM: Maybe some survival elements then, like food? Another random idea is being able to leave your tank if it runs out of energy. Seeing as how the area seems to be a desert, you could have limited time as a person before you die(food stored in tank to heal you?), but maybe if you're lucky, enough to fetch energy and bring it back.(probably not a full refill though) Would give you a use for the old human sprite, too :P Could also make crossing cracked tiles easier, a person wouldn't break it, so could run across and drag a crystal to the tank.

Also, have the charging station have a "short range teleport" or something, once you collect enough crystals you can go to a new area. That way you can continue gameplay, maybe eventually go to different more unique area types, looking for some "oasis"/"paradise", which could be a goal.

If these are varying from your goals for the game, what are they? (if you have any, I know this was a random weekend project originally)
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on February 07, 2013, 01:48:29 AM: see i thought about food, but it seemed to much like energy. Climbing out of the machine could be cool, I would probably do Oxygen instead of food for that, but I would need a good situation to leave the machine. I don't really want to complicate the game to much.

and for the idea of guys weighing less. I actually thought of doing a vehicle that is a hover craft and can move over crumble areas without destroying the ground.

As for overall goal. I wanted to do it as a simple score based game. Either giving a point for each level or crystal found.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: Paul Jeffries on February 07, 2013, 09:29:07 PM: Hmmm... there's almost no game to it now; provided you can count there's pretty much no reason why you'd ever run out of fuel. Because of that the rocks feel pretty insubstantial as obstacles - they mean you have to turn back slightly sooner but other than that there's no real penalty for just steamrollering through them.

As a blue-sky idea: what if it wasn't just your survival you had to look out for? Say, each map has several automated drilling platforms that are slowly extracting valuable ores from the asteroid and your job is to keep them running by refueling them with crystals, protecting them from hazards, buying them upgrades that make them drill faster or more energy-efficiently and so on. As they drill deeper it could cause more and more seismic activity that alters the level; new cracks appear, rocks shift around. Your score for the level could be based on how quickly you manage to completely mine out each asteroid.
Title: Re: Miner Prototype
Post by: jasonpickering on February 12, 2013, 01:00:31 AM: I might have to do that drill idea. i wanted the game to be about resource management, but I am afraid its going to be to similar to Ido's Fuel game from last years 7DRL. Also thinking about resources is a bit hard to. I wanted Energy for when you were driving around, but I need to think of some others and how they effect gameplay.

Right now I have Energy as a resource. I am thinking of making the "key" to the next room be an ever increasing amount of crystals. meaning the player must save some crystals to spend on traveling to the next floor and not dumping all of them into Energy. I am also going to change it so that Energy is refilled in chunks, instead of refueling the entire bar like it currently is.

now I could change this and go with a drilling system. The player would need to power their vehicle and also the Drill.
The drill would slowly drill and when it has mined all the valuable material the floor is "Completed" and they can move on to the next area. It would mean keeping yourself powered as well as the machine powered until it fills completely.

I think if I did this I would need to think about the extra stuff like the cargo system. if you should be able to carry as many crystals as you want. but the "Drill platform idea" might be the best idea.