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Game Discussion => Traditional Roguelikes (Turn-based) => Topic started by: Mikko Lehtinen on January 05, 2013, 08:48:02 AM

Title: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on January 05, 2013, 08:48:02 AM
I want to eventually win Epilogue. I'll be playing a lot this year. I decided to create my own thread for battle stories and feedback.

At the moment I'm still learning the basics. Some questions:

Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on January 05, 2013, 09:06:42 AM
I found a bug: when I save/quit and reload a game, the game forgets information about previously seen terrain. The small map remembers everything correctly, but squares that are visible on the small map are black on the big map.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: kraflab on January 05, 2013, 11:58:40 AM
Answers:

You can't explicitly see what type of damage an enemy does, but there are some giveaways: elemental attacks have a colored particle effect (orange is fire, etc) and the mouseover shows an expected damage number.  Thus, if you want to you can switch between armors and see how the damage changes.  I generally just keep a single piece of armor with me that is relatively balanced.

Minuet should heal any negative buff that is colored red I believe.  Scorched has never been curable by Minuet so it may be that by chance it expired when you prayed to Minuet previously.  Burning is removed along with poison and a variety of effects that show up in later levels.  Scorched is temporary armor damage, so I guess my reasoning is it is outside Minuet's realm of influence.

The blank rune effect is intentional.  It's as if your elemental affinities are drained and have to recover.

That bug is rather curious.  I'm not sure how the little map and the main screen could end up out of sync.

Edit: fixed the bug
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: mughinn on January 05, 2013, 04:31:05 PM
Good luck winning the game, It is a difficult task.

Your questions were already answered by kraft, so i don't have a lot to tell you except for some tips.

I'd really recommend you start seeing and thinking about the different gods, and which one you like better, each has it's benefits and downsides, and they're a really important part of your strategy.

Also, start looking into alchemy, it's not necessary to win, but it can help you a lot, specially if you find by chance the healing potion recipe.

Again, good luck :)
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on January 05, 2013, 06:58:08 PM
Kraflab, I admire your bug crushing speed!

Thanks for the tips, mughinn. For now I think I like destroying chests in the name of Zhangroh, since I'm getting flooded by constant inventory choices... I took Scrounger for my new character to practice alchemy more efficiently.

Another bug: the effects window doesn't handle Running properly. When you mouse-over effects, the window behaves as if Running weren't there.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: kraflab on January 06, 2013, 02:33:43 AM
Another bug: the effects window doesn't handle Running properly. When you mouse-over effects, the window behaves as if Running weren't there.

Fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on January 06, 2013, 12:41:43 PM
Am I correct that stamina-boosting equipment are only useful when you level up, giving you more max health? So I should start using my Glowing Dark Bow with Stamina +20% when Exp reaches 90% or so?
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on January 06, 2013, 01:14:41 PM
Uh oh, something very bad just happened.

I was at 90% Exp, wearing all my stamina boosting items. I shot a potentially lethal arrow at a monster, there was a sound (leveling up?), and the screen went blank. There was just the mouse pointer on the menu  background image, no map, no text, nothing else. Controls didn't work, and I was locked to this screen, unable to even quit.

I was also extremely fatigued and about to fall in sleep any moment. Perhaps I leveled up and fell in sleep on the same game turn, and that froze the game?

OK, kill the program and start again. Thanks for the autosave at the beginning of each level, that saved me.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: kraflab on January 06, 2013, 02:05:34 PM
You are right about stamina on equipment.  Personally, I completely disregard the bonuses on equipment, but they're there for people who enjoy paying attention to that type of thing :P

That is a very odd bug.  Are you saying that you could move the mouse pointer around still, but there was no way to exit the screen (in other words, not a crash or freeze, but just stuck on this blank screen)?

Were you getting to level 4 or 7 when this happened?  When you reach level 4 and 7 you unlock new character traits, at which point a menu opens up prompting you to choose one.  The fact that you saw menu background but no text is perplexing me.

This is exactly why I put autosave in, so I'm happy that worked out for you.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on January 06, 2013, 06:21:16 PM
You are right about stamina on equipment.  Personally, I completely disregard the bonuses on equipment, but they're there for people who enjoy paying attention to that type of thing :P

I like the item bonuses otherwise, but IMO the stamina bonuses on items are weird and unintuitive. Were I the developer, I'd get rid off them. Not a huge issue, though.

That is a very odd bug.  Are you saying that you could move the mouse pointer around still, but there was no way to exit the screen (in other words, not a crash or freeze, but just stuck on this blank screen)?

Were you getting to level 4 or 7 when this happened?  When you reach level 4 and 7 you unlock new character traits, at which point a menu opens up prompting you to choose one.

Yes and yes.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: kraflab on January 07, 2013, 01:11:10 AM
Stamina boosts have been on the chopping block for a while, I've just always been preoccupied with other things.  You may see them removed in the next version.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on January 07, 2013, 06:42:37 AM
There are also some item bonuses that are never useful. Shields may have bonuses to other defensive skills, two-handed melee weapons bonuses to Magic, off-hand weapons bonuses to Shield.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: kraflab on January 07, 2013, 07:12:20 AM
There are also some item bonuses that are never useful. Shields may have bonuses to other defensive skills, two-handed melee weapons bonuses to Magic, off-hand weapons bonuses to Shield.

Are you quite certain about this?  This should not be possible as there are checks that reroll skill bonuses when the bonus is not usable.  Shield bonus to other defensive skills is hypothetically useful.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on January 07, 2013, 08:09:37 AM
I thought that the Shield skill replaces the other defensive skills when a shield is in use? That's why I've been avoiding shields with my Fortitude character. Your answer seems to suggest that the highest of the two skills is used instead.

I'll take notes if I find a weapon with unusable bonuses. I've no proof at the moment, and perhaps I'm mistaken.

Zhangroh rewarded me three times, but I haven't noticed what the effect is. I haven't been paying close enough attention to my skills -- I suspect Zhangroh might have given skill bonuses but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: kraflab on January 07, 2013, 09:30:37 AM
Yes, he boosts your skills.  Perhaps it should be more explicit.  In essence, he represents an exchange of the utility of extra items for the raw survivability of increased skill magnitude.

If you are using a shield but your fortitude skill is higher it does pick fortitude over shield when receiving a magic attack.  A shield is certainly extra protection so in a tight spot, if just to stay alive until something comes off cooldown, a shield with fortitude boost on a fortitude character may come in handy.

I see that the text in game says the shield replaces the other skills, so I will need to clarify that.  The idea is that if your character knows they are good at evading magical attacks they will evade, while if they are bad at dodging arrows they will try to use the shield to deflect them, etc.

There are other variables as well:
If your legs are heavily damaged, your defensive skills suffer due to lower mobility (actual value is fortitude*limb_effectiveness[legs]).  A shield is wielded though, so its effectiveness is based on arm status instead.  This also factors into which defensive skill you use, so if your legs are completely gone, wielding a shield would be the only chance to block/dodge attacks.  On the other side, if your left arm is removed your shield skill becomes useless.  Of course, extreme limb conditions are somewhat of a rarity.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on January 07, 2013, 08:25:10 PM
Oh no, now I accidentally commited suicide!

I was previously thinking that yikes, Save & Quit and Quit (Kill Character) are much too close to each other in the menu... And now I proved it. The game didn't even ask for confirmation.

On the positive side, I'll probably get some Halls of Mist bugs fixed tonight instead of playing Epilogue. :)

I'll return to Epilogue later this week. I feel that my testing and learning period is over, and I can now start playing "for real", playing every character at the top of my ability. I'll even destroy my savefile to reset the Character Stats "corrupted" by lots of test characters. We'll see how many characters it takes to win the game.  8)
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: kraflab on January 08, 2013, 08:53:47 AM
Good luck!  Choosing whether or not to add 'confirmation' messages is a design choice, but consider this: you get used to typing F -> Y to confirm a quit and E -> Y to confirm a save & quit and you end up hitting F -> Y instead of E -> Y, so I think the problem would persist if I kept things symmetric.  Perhaps I just should add a "Would you like to save this game?" prompt when you quit directly.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on January 08, 2013, 09:25:11 AM
Save & quit doesn't need a confirm. In fact, having to confirm it would be slightly annoying. If you just add a confirm for suicide, it should stand out more.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on February 05, 2013, 02:03:00 PM
I like to play characters that are good at one defensive and two offensive skills. In the previous version when I hovered the mouse pointer on an enemy, I saw that my hit chance with a bow was, say, 42% and with magic 72%. It was easy to choose which weapon to use.

Now that information has been replaced with elemental vulnerabilities... Seems like these characters got a lot worse.

At the moment I'm playing a Defense character, and in each combat I need to choose whether to use melee or ranged. How should I make the decision? I've no clue whether a Blob Assassin is better at Defense or Deftness...
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: kraflab on February 05, 2013, 07:30:23 PM
You're right, so I guess as it stands the only real advantage is that you have access to two sets of weapon types if you get nice drops or if a type has a nice ability on a particular floor.  I absentmindedly forgot that those hit rates were attached to the damage estimate -_-

I'm interested that you prefer defensive proficiencies, since most people seem to go offense or stamina.
Title: Re: Mikko's Epilogue Thread
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on February 05, 2013, 07:38:59 PM
I find the Defence proficiency in particular interesting, because it allows you to choose between Melee or Ranged in every fight, depending on circumstances -- not only on the opponent's skills but also on positioning. It's like an extra layer of tactical thinking on top of everything else.

Oh, and wasn't one of them Melee + Magic, that's similar. Magic + Bows is the least interesting of the defensive proficiencies.

Tellingly I forget which was the boosted defensive skill in these cases... The combination of two offense skills is all I think about.