Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Development => Incubator => Topic started by: Ancient on June 14, 2012, 07:29:08 PM
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Goals:
I: Turn this:
##########
#f@'A.a.aa
#.f#######
#.b#
#cb#
##+#
into this:
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/393/premise.png)
II: Introduce Yautja as very easy profession to allow inexperienced players to see more of the game. Related concepts requiring implementation are:
- Yautja weapons: plasmacaster, combistick, Smart-Disc, speargun, razor whip, wristblade, net launcher.
- Yautja equipment: self-destruct device, bio-mask, cloaking belt, plate armor, medicomp, sat-com.
- Rules for worthy and unworthy game.
III: Introduce Deathless Robots.
- The Robots themselves: Skeletal Warriors, Skeletal Fiends and Skeletal Overlords.
- Self repair over time mechanic. Disabled Robots will come back online given enough time if their wreck is not destroyed.
- Associated equipment: Staff of Light, Jackal Cowl, Orb of Slavery and Third Eye.
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Sweet!
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Is PSI doing them?
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If you mean ze pix0ls yup dats me.
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Awesome. So the band is still together then? Happy times.
I am available, as usual, to look over any text.
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We are the Prime Dev Team. :-) Somehow you seem like a part of it too.
For now we concentrate solely on the first goal and the plan is to have working prototype by the weekend to show some stuff Psi drew and test looks of new interface. Not going to add any text for now but if you have any complaints about existing interface we would like to hear that. It is great time to change things all around.
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Well shit I better get playing!
EDIT: any plans for a click and move interface? Like ToME or Brogue?
EDIT2: Should I list suggestions here? I have a couple...
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Click and move probably will get implemented but not soon. It is going to be useful in traversing explored levels but my fear is players are going to use it to explore unknown space and get them in unfavorable situation which may lead to death. I have written more about this in discussion at rec.games.rougelike.development.
Yes, drown us in suggestions please!
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Allow clicking only in visible or explored places then.
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Yes, drown us in suggestions please!
I will. I have a few. I'd like to play a bit more and make sure I am being wise.
Really though I'd like to go through all of the flavor text. Some of it is a bit wonky. Some issues with consistent style and point of view. I might as well do a complete review of every line for the upcoming release. If that's cool with you.
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I'm cool with you giving a thorough review to the lore files, but!
I'd like to reserve the right to rollback or edit further a minority
of my lore entries if I find your polishing conflicts too much with
whatever I was trying to accomplish. Might even drop you some
lines about how to solve such conflicts if they arise.
Does that sound good?
An example of lore entries that can accept little editing are the
ones formatted in the fashion of Dwarf Fortress descriptions, in
which I'm sticking to a predefined structure.
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Yes no problem. Anything you want anyway you want it.
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The build should be there but is not. Curses is deeply integrated into codebase. I am only halfway separating user interface logic from game engine. The latter should be pretty much ignorant of ways it is presented to the world but right now assumptions run here and there. Progress is good but first graphical release will not appear until July for sure.
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GO ANCIENT GO
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Hey I was going to give some feedback on the interface, but I expect a bunch to change in the tile version so I'll wait. You have enough to figure out right now I think, and any feedback might end up being irrelevant.
Good luck in the coding Ancient.
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Hey I was going to give some feedback on the interface, but I expect a bunch to change in the tile version so I'll wait. You have enough to figure out right now I think, and any feedback might end up being irrelevant.
Good luck in the coding Ancient.
same!
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Hey I was going to give some feedback on the interface, but I expect a bunch to change in the tile version so I'll wait. You have enough to figure out right now I think, and any feedback might end up being irrelevant.
What applies only to ASCII interface is going to be used for improving said mode. Even if not useful for SDL port it is still very much relevant and valuable. Also, I expect you (this is aimed at other participants of incubator) to try pure ASCII too. Otherwise the feedback is not complete.
Are waiting you for fully playable tiles build? Sorry, but I have to disappoint you. That could be available mid August at best. More likely late August or early September. :-/ Implementing GUI is simply a ton of work. Moreover only when PRIME will be fully playable with keyboard in SDL mode (like POWDER is) secondary goals like mouse support are going to be tackled. Of course if time permits.
When graphical build is out it is going to be a test build. For example walk-on-map in SDL but with PRIME engine underneath. Receiving comments on that should be no problem because the incubator is initiative of developers for developers. During development more and more feature complete builds will be released.
Here is unannounced 1.9a release with latest known bugs fixed. Ncurses only.
Linux 32bit (http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/1.9a/prime_lnx32-1.9a.tar.bz2)
Windows (http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/1.9a/prime_win-1.9a.zip)
Source (http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/1.9a/prime_src-1.9a.tar.bz2)
Good luck in the coding Ancient.
Thank you! It is true that a lot of things are still to figure out code-wise. Curses is deeply entrenched in PRIME codebase. Suffice to say it is included in "Global.h" file. Even save/restore routines "know" about ASCII stuff.
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Ok, here are some notes from my first few lives:
Perhaps this is a linux thing, but I had never seen '^D' before in the context of meaning control-D. Adding a line above the controls in the help log that says ^ means CTRL or something of that nature would be nice. It wasn't really troublesome to figure out but it might be for some people.
o for open should default to opening the door you are standing by unless there are a lot of doors nearby!
b for fuel barrel is a little non-intuitive for me because letters are monsters and symbols are other things, in my experience.
Similarly, F for fungus seems odd to me because I expect capital letters to be powerful foes.
I would like it if I could use the arrow keys or the numpad to scroll info up and down, rather than it being a one way system. Sometimes you want to scroll thing up and down.
I would also like it if I auto-attempted to open doors when bumping them.
The game presented me with only the option of shutting down upon death, whereas it would be much better if it brought me back to the main menu.
Only some items told me how much damage they do (chainsaw) whereas most did not give me any specifics (pistol). Is this because I need to identify them or wield them to know or is all the info not in the game yet?
I really like the ascii colors chosen here and think it works quite well.
In my second life, I started out in an area with only locked keycard exits. I searched around a while for a secret door out, but unfortunately there appeared to be nothing I could do.
This also happened on my fourth life >_< I can't imagine how I would feel if this happened with a character deep in the game, although I imagine I would likely have lockpicks at that point. Perhaps there is some mechanic to get past these doors that I am missing.
On my next life I could not find the stairs and I didn't feel like continuing "search: the game" so I gave up. Perhaps I have just been incredibly unlucky.
Edit: ok I found out that kicking the locked doors can open them, although unfortunately I still tend to get into situations where searching an entire level for a hidden door is the only visible way to find the stairs :(
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The ^ for control is a ncurses thing. Windows builds have it too. You are right explanation should be added. Or have it read "CTRL+D".
I strongly disagree on automatic choice of targets for open command. This goes against muscle memory. Also, you can target restrained droids with open command. However, implementing bump to interact with doors should make this a non-issue.
Frankly fuel barrel are monsters. Destroying them gives experience and is counted in kill list. Which I presume is even more unintuitive. Well, until boulder-like things get implemented this is going to be this way unfortunately.
Okay, warp fungi will be lowercase f from now on. The same symbol is used for facehuggers but color difference should save players from confusion. Tapioca pudding and vat slime were moved too (S -> s). Contemplating the same for grays (capital G) which are mostly harmless except for dissidents who come heavily armed.
Better scrolling for text is noted. Hmm, wonder why we don't have it already.
Auto open doors on bump is fine idea but I feel that somehow kick on bump would be much more appropriate. Or perhaps bumping should:
1. Try to just open.
2. If above failed try to use key.
3. Use lockpick.
4. Kick down.
Open command tries to do 1, 2, 3. Using the command instead of just bumping would be useful when you are in difficult situation and want to avoid triggering door alarm. Kicking is almost guaranteed to activate alarm if it is installed.
The reason game quits on death is the program is not designed to play in loop. A lot of stuff is global and is initialized in disjoint places. This eventually will be fixed but given amount of refactoring it requires it has been shoved into low priority list. Yeah, quite silly admittedly.
Information on game items is automatically generated from data, so it cannot just be missing. Except flavor descriptions, those are like half done. Yes, you need to identify items to get full information. Knowing type of weapon is enough.
You can shoot doors with weapons. This is sci-fi game after all.
Secret doors are definitely overused. I think the best course of action would be to generate connectivity graph of rooms and only allow leaf nodes not containing stairs to be hidden behind secret doors.
Thank you for feedback! Some food for thought definitely.
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Well I had a few suggestions. I was going to wait, but here they are. I've jotted them quickly while playing, some may be plain dumb.
-Color locked doors according to key card color.
-Is space bar used for anything? Seems like it could be, easy button to hit really.
-'wearing' armor should take off old armor if need be.
-I was kicking all the closed doors, didn't know you could just 'open' them. Is there a good reason that all doors do not auto open and close? Besides the locked ones.
-You can use the same button for wield, wear, use, apply, zap, etc. Just one button to bring up inventory where you can wield, wear, use anything you want. Like the 'character screen' in Diablo. It can also list stats and implants and what not. That one button can be the space bar. Big and central, you hit it and there you have inventory ready to manage, implants ready to activate and powers ready to zap.
-Picking up stuff is wonky. When you stand over something how about a numbered list popping up automatically. Press the number to add to inventory, press (a) to pick it all up?
-Always pick up buckazoids. Or can they be dangerous?
-Control and Shift commands are a bit obtuse for mainstream. How about escape to quit/save and go to the menu.
-Touch Stairs to ascend/descend. Eliminates a button press. Starting on the stairs is fine, but if you walk off then walk back or 'bump' them then you ascend/descend.
-Bump to kick the door, no need extra command then. Works only if all doors are either locked or automatic.
-The help file lists Z or m to zap a mutant power...you only need one button surely.
-',' to pick stuff up is a bit strange don't you think? How about 'g'?
-I LOVE how you shoot in this game. Pick a direction. I totally dig it. Other similar games do an auto targetting deal. I think direction shooting is less realistic and more gamey, and I like it because it involves positioning decisions. Please keep it.
-If you can, try to put all commands on the left hand. So my right hand can stay on the move keys and my left hand can hit everything without leaving home row. This will help when you do a point and click interface too, right hand mouse left hand keys.
-On death it seems like the program ends up quitting instead of sending me back to start a new hero. I want to play a new hero not have to restart the program.
***I guess my main suggestion is to cut down the command set to only a few keys for the left hand.
Help File would be a bit like this:
Space Bar - Bring up inventory Screen. Equip, wield, use, apply, zap, implant...
'd' - Open and close doors. [though all are automatic or locked, you might want to slam one closed on an baddy and not have it open automatically anymore]
'g' - grab things off the ground.
Bump - To attack in melee and bash down doors. Also go downstairs.
'f' - Fire a ranged weapon.
's' - Skill screen.
't' - Throw something.
'w' - Wait a turn, search around.
ESC - Bring up a menu - Save Game, Quit, Restart, Help.
Hope that helps. I know you want it to be more newb friendly. Less keys and doing many things in the inventory menu I think can be a good move.
Good luck Ancient. I'll not be offended if you totally ignore me, I already like the game.
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To take your suggestions by one:
Color for doors is used to denote malfunctions (red) and force fields (brownish yellow). Cyan would still be needed for doors without locks. I guess if we make doors depict their code locks colors malfunctions and force fields will have to change door glyph. Probably this will make to nearest release.
No, space bar is not bound to anything except paging through menus. Yeah, this resource just screams to be used.
Wearing jumpsuit takes care of swapping coats in and out already so swapping any piece of armor is logical step forward.
-I was kicking all the closed doors, didn't know you could just 'open' them. Is there a good reason that all doors do not auto open and close? Besides the locked ones.
Yes, if we made all doors automatic game difficulty early would increase too much. Right now you can shut a door to keep a swarm of tribbles away. Creatures without hands will not open them allowing you to swap weapons and armor, heal and use consumables safely. Bump to open a door (open includes unlocking it or applying a lockpick) mechanic is in implementation phase so that should make things smoother.
-You can use the same button for wield, wear, use, apply, zap, etc. Just one button to bring up inventory where you can wield, wear, use anything you want. Like the 'character screen' in Diablo. It can also list stats and implants and what not. That one button can be the space bar. Big and central, you hit it and there you have inventory ready to manage, implants ready to activate and powers ready to zap.
If I am not mistaken you talk about Diablo 1 interface here. This is the only Diablo I am familiar with so if this is wrong please correct. Darren also asked for similar thing on rgr.dev. So, another vote for object-verb interface on opening inventory. You will still need to specify what do you want to do with chosen item though. No "default action" stuff is going to work. At least we have no idea how to integrate it since large quantity of game objects have two to four sensible actions that can be done to them.
Comma to pick up seems very natural to me. That is because I grew up on many old roguelikes where it was quite common. I remember 'g' for get in DoomRL though. Numbering for items on ground is interesting. Most likely picking all items would be bound to asterisk or tab because a for apply is common action.
Buckazoids have weight. Picking them up may cause you to become encumbered which is bad. Question is why we have them weight something. Maybe it is just realism in which case we can scrap it and make them automatically add to your account.
Escape for rare commands like meta actions. More people might realize we have options to set that way. Good idea.
I am against the stair thing. At least not until we place them inside walls. That would make stairscumming a bit more difficult because to leave one would have to step away and step back. Feels silly. I think current way feels more consistent but a prompt telling you the key to descend will be given after stepping on stairs.
Bump on door will open, unlock and pick lock in this order. Maybe it will kick if nothing else is available but there is problem when you have cards that *might* fit into the door but the character does not have enough information to be sure.
-The help file lists Z or m to zap a mutant power...you only need one button surely.
I was going to remove Z but in comments I found the reason for its existence. It is a key on left side of QWERTY keyboard so it was allowed to stay.
-I LOVE how you shoot in this game. Pick a direction. I totally dig it. Other similar games do an auto targetting deal. I think direction shooting is less realistic and more gamey, and I like it because it involves positioning decisions. Please keep it.
Thank you! We also enjoy it. Especially with railgun on hand. At least until there is enough slugs.
I commented on the quit on death thingy in reply to Kraflab. Yes, I am ashamed of it but at the same time feel still too lazy to fix it because it requires surprisingly large amount of checking to do.
About your key proposal. I think there will be another key layout made. d for doors sounds right because it also fits as d for droid. Open command can interact with restrained droids too. As for blocking an automatic door you can use gauss ray to destroy the electronics responsible for automatic opening and closing. Then it will act like an ordinary door.
Ah, another thing. We roguelike developers are ever-hungry for feedback. Thus getting ignored is highly unlikely. :-D
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Cool. You seem to understand everything I said. I thought maybe i'd be too confusing.
Can't wait for the new release. I'll give more feedback then, no problem.
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Apparently the order of linking matters, I had to change
c++ -g -o $(PROGRAM) $(LDFLAGS) $(LIBS) $(OBJS)
to c++ -g -o $(PROGRAM) $(LDFLAGS) $(OBJS) $(LIBS)
in the Makefile. Curses functions were not recognized otherwise.
I find it annoying that there is apparently no way to exit the game from the initial questions (I started it and then decided to try to run it through NotEye instead), and also that after pressing "?" I have to see all the three pages even if I found what I wanted on the first one.
Just the first impressions, for now :)
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Some more:
- the "?" screen should be improved: it should be possible to read the manual via it (or at least be notified of its existence), and also the keys should be categorized somehow
- the source package includes Ancient's highscores and configuration, it should not (it did not ask me about my preferred key layout)
- I don't like how the game keeps a part of the old screen when displaying a new one, for example stats and the left part of the screen are still displayed when I am looking at the inventory. And when I am looking at the description of some item, it is even worse "I can see "ex 13" which is useless). IMO this is confusing (at least without window frames). If I wanted to look at my stats while selecting items, I would rather escape the item selection menu.
- Some screens (e.g. inventory) say that I can use "<" for the previous page, ">" for the next page, "^" for the first page. Arrows seem to do nothing (or do something that I don't understand), they should (actually I thought that these signs were meant to represent arrows). Maybe lowercase versions (",", ".") should work as well. Why not make them configurable?
- If I remove my config and then reload a saved game, it will accept no keys (and I have to kill it). It should ask me about the keymap instead. Apparently likewise if I do not answer anything when asked about my preferred key layout.
- The menu shown after death is better than in classic roguelikes, but still far from perfect. It should be a single choice menu which restarts itself if the user wanted to see something to let them make another choice. I also think that displaying the highscores should be optional.
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- If I pickup an item and it is assigned, say, "p", and I access Inventory and press "p", and it is on the second page, then it does not show
- I would prefer the list of items to be displayed automatically, I usually don't remember the letters
- "electronic gizmos" and "grenades" should have more names; and Geiger counters are rather obvious once they click, aren't they? I think they should auto-identify then
- floppy disks seem anachronistic (memory cards?)
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- floppy disks seem anachronistic (memory cards?)
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Feature bloat request: Do we really want to live in a crazed futuristic and referential Roguelike without Laser Discs somehow being a thing? Anachronism with wild abandon! 8)
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I think that several characters are unused, there is no need to use "+" both for doors and implants.
It is very hard to understand how radiation works. New players killed by radiation won't know what actually killed them. Maybe it would be a good idea to give more details in the infos about characters killed by radiation (something like "radiation traps: 40% background: 30% inventory: 30%").
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Small update: display stuff is done by interface while deciding what to display is in the engine. I broke some features during this but this should not be hard to fix. I haven't touched most issues you have mentioned yet.
Makefile has been changed, thanks. Would you mind telling me what version of gcc you use?
Yes, initial game stuff is bizarre.
Kraflab also requested we get real facilities for viewing longer chunks of texts. Several things could use them: diagnosis screen, lore, help and probably more.
Sources usually lack all the user configuration stuff. It was left in by mistake, I apologize. Forgot to call one makefile command.
- I don't like how the game keeps a part of the old screen when displaying a new one, for example stats and the left part of the screen are still displayed when I am looking at the inventory. And when I am looking at the description of some item, it is even worse "I can see "ex 13" which is useless). IMO this is confusing (at least without window frames). If I wanted to look at my stats while selecting items, I would rather escape the item selection menu.
This is Angbandish interface design. I agree there is usually no benefit in this. However, when you bring up the skill screen it is good to see your speed change when you invest skill points in haste ability.
- Some screens (e.g. inventory) say that I can use "<" for the previous page, ">" for the next page, "^" for the first page. Arrows seem to do nothing (or do something that I don't understand), they should (actually I thought that these signs were meant to represent arrows). Maybe lowercase versions (",", ".") should work as well. Why not make them configurable?
Both '.' and ',' are assigned to special functions within those screens. Arrows are not being read correctly. Menus actually have their own key recognition routine which does not handle complex keys (arrows among them) at all. This is source of the weird stuff you experienced when pressing those.
What do you mean configurable? Allow to redefine all special keys of menu?
- If I remove my config and then reload a saved game, it will accept no keys (and I have to kill it). It should ask me about the keymap instead. Apparently likewise if I do not answer anything when asked about my preferred key layout.
Sigh. Another flaw of menus floats out. Those menus should have implemented the option "do not accept invalid input". It looks like loading a game dodges configuration check. This is bad.
- The menu shown after death is better than in classic roguelikes, but still far from perfect. It should be a single choice menu which restarts itself if the user wanted to see something to let them make another choice. I also think that displaying the highscores should be optional.
All right. See highscores will be an option in this menu.
- If I pickup an item and it is assigned, say, "p", and I access Inventory and press "p", and it is on the second page, then it does not show
If you know the item is bound to "p" why you open the inventory? Will fix nonetheless.
- I would prefer the list of items to be displayed automatically, I usually don't remember the letters
In what cases? Because there are some commands where *usually* you want a subset of items. Sometimes you want the full inventory though. This makes it hard because I would need to decide whether giving full list of stuff is better. In the cases where you would want whole inventory players could not realize there is option of choosing from full set of items.
- "electronic gizmos" and "grenades" should have more names; and Geiger counters are rather obvious once they click, aren't they? I think they should auto-identify then
If you have gotten geiger counter to click and stay electronic gizmo at the same time you have found a bug. Please list steps to achieve that.
We have only three electronic gizmos so flavor names seemed unnecessary. Should be quite useful for grenades though. I think Xenocide style names would fit best. For example "black plastic egg", "small metal ball", "small ball with handle", "short stick with switch".
Yes, floppies are anachronistic. Prime laughs at its own science fiction-ness this way. Wait till you find buggy floppy disk of reformat and old DOS "Abort, retry, fail?" jumps out at you. If something is to be done about that it is adding compact laser discs like Getter suggests.
Up to now '|' and '"' were unused. These will be respectively closed door with force field and open malfunctioning automatic door. Implains could use something else. (Semi)colons are unused too.
Seems we need help on radiation somewhere because I have no idea what
(something like "radiation traps: 40% background: 30% inventory: 30%").
is supposed to mean.
You get radiated through some actions. There are messages when this is happening. Usually these are subtle. When radiation sickness kicks in either you remedy it or wait till your contamination levels drops enough for your organism to recover. Waiting works only if you are not being radiated further.
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Makefile has been changed, thanks. Would you mind telling me what version of gcc you use?
gcc version 4.6.3 (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.6.3-1ubuntu5)
What do you mean configurable? Allow to redefine all special keys of menu?
Yes... I think it would be useful to redefine special keys. But probably not necessary.
If you know the item is bound to "p" why you open the inventory? Will fix nonetheless.
To get its description.
- I would prefer the list of items to be displayed automatically, I usually don't remember the letters
In what cases? Because there are some commands where *usually* you want a subset of items. Sometimes you want the full inventory though. This makes it hard because I would need to decide whether giving full list of stuff is better. In the cases where you would want whole inventory players could not realize there is option of choosing from full set of items.
I think it would be the best to show the filtered list by default, and allow pressing "*" to show the full list (and display this "*" option on the screen, so players will realize that there is such an option). By the way, "*" and "?" require a shift, which is a bit cumbersome.
If you have gotten geiger counter to click and stay electronic gizmo at the same time you have found a bug. Please list steps to achieve that.
This happens whenever I get it to click. I have checked the sources and it seems that I need to name the Geiger counter correctly (BTW should not it be capitalized?) while it is clicking to identify it.
We have only three electronic gizmos so flavor names seemed unnecessary.
On the other hand, they are all quite common objects, so you are quite likely to find, say, three of them. And then you want to know if two have the same type (especially if you don't know yet that they are quite easy to recognize).
Up to now '|' and '"' were unused. These will be respectively closed door with force field and open malfunctioning automatic door. Implains could use something else. (Semi)colons are unused too.
I think I have not seen "_", "-", "%", "`", and ",". But maybe I just have not found these yet, or do not remember.
Seems we need help on radiation somewhere because I have no idea what
(something like "radiation traps: 40% background: 30% inventory: 30%").
is supposed to mean.
I meant that it would be nice to know what caused the radiation sickness in your case. One way of doing that would be to count the number of units of radiation from each source, and display these numbers on the dead character's diagnostic screen.
Some new things: most keymaps display "In default keymap these are '5' and 'g'", this is unclear in the default keymap, and useless in other keymaps. A newbie might have problems to rest in place for a long time. ADOM allows to press "5" to rest, and "w5" to long rest, and these do not work in PRIME with ADOM keymap ("w." works, but is awkward).
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Melnorme claims to have a power to detect quality of floppy disks, but I don't see any results. Using this power on ray guns tells their number of charges, but it does not identify empty ray guns.
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Melnorme claims to have a power to detect quality of floppy disks, but I don't see any results. Using this power on ray guns tells their number of charges, but it does not identify empty ray guns.
This should probably return whether it's cracked/regular/infected
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Maybe, but this is not clear. I also do not see whether a disk is known to be clean.
Another bug: I do not see whether items in shops are unpaid when picking them up (especially nasty for a large pile of items, since in this case you do not see which of them are unpaid when moving on the pile).
EDIT: no, their power does not identify infected disks.
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No no, I meant what they *should* do, as in contrast to what they actually do.
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Been away coding! Finally, I have removed "friend struct shMapLevel" declaration from Interface class. Man, I could write a rant titled "My little C++: friendship is evil". Or at least overused and overrated.
Nice pile of feedback there, Zeno.
If you know the item is bound to "p" why you open the inventory? Will fix nonetheless.
To get its description.
*slaps forehead* Of course!
I have checked the sources and it seems that I need to name the Geiger counter correctly (BTW should not it be capitalized?) while it is clicking to identify it.
You are right. It seems I do the naming automatically nowadays and conflated getting a gizmo to click with getting its type identified. The name was set to lowercase since people are more likely to type it that way. Having string compare ignore case would be even better. However, your suggestion of auto-identifying the item at that point is good. Back when I made the decision to require naming it the most powerful argument against auto-ID was not everyone might think/know about Geiger counters in the first place and revealing the item in question might ruin some discovery fun. Still, that invites spoilers. Spoilers giving significant advantage is not my idea of fun game. The same shall be done to droid callers.
Electronic gizmos will get adjectives like "fiddly", "fragile", "complicated" and "gimmicky". Tricorder then will become a gizmo too.
You have named all the other unused glyphs correctly. The underscore served in previous versions as altar to WH40K deity but this was taken out for not being very interesting. I wish players never have to squint so for now comma is avoided on purpose. Maybe it could work for batches of different terrain.
I meant that it would be nice to know what caused the radiation sickness in your case. One way of doing that would be to count the number of units of radiation from each source, and display these numbers on the dead character's diagnostic screen.
Ah, okay. That sure would help. It inspired me to color radioactive known items in inventory green. I'll see how that will work out. Green generally is a color associated with good things so it might be not the best choice here.
An upgrade to item inspection screen is in the works. What it is missing are bits of knowledge like this:
This item is vulnerable to acid.
You do not know if it is acidproof. / It is acidproof. / It is not acidproof.
This item might be infected with computer virus.
You do not know if it is infected. / It is protected with antivirus. / It is not infected.
Some new things: most keymaps display "In default keymap these are '5' and 'g'", this is unclear in the default keymap, and useless in other keymaps. A newbie might have problems to rest in place for a long time. ADOM allows to press "5" to rest, and "w5" to long rest, and these do not work in PRIME with ADOM keymap ("w." works, but is awkward).
Keypad and arrow key problems again. I see that in ADOM keymap rest is bound twice to '.'. One definitely should be '5' so that with numlock on you could do that. Oh, and you can do "ww" to rest in place too.
Also, I am doubting the usefulness of look here command. Far look handles describing current square well enough.
I will have to think about empty ray guns too. It looks like ray guns with zero charges do not immediately switch to empty ray guns when you get to know number of charges. A bug.
Psiweapon is right about Melnorme. Reveal item quality service should either be unavailable for floppy disks or check for viruses. A bug.
Another bug: I do not see whether items in shops are unpaid when picking them up (especially nasty for a large pile of items, since in this case you do not see which of them are unpaid when moving on the pile).
I would call this a missing feature rather than a bug. Anyway this one was easy to correct.
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Thanks!
I feel that droids work in a rather strange way. Should not they fight my enemies and leave my friends alone? I have used a restraining bolt on a protocol droid, and the first thing it did was to attack a peaceful catbot. After the catbot won, I have used another restraining bolt, and the first thing it did was to attack a peaceful melnorme (and the catbot won again). Some time later we met a hostile catbot, and they did not want to fight. Also I think that slaves should display something special instead of "peaceful".
By the way, I would like to support PRIME tiles in NotEye once they are released (probably interpret ASCII PRIME with PRIME tiles, in order to use other features of NotEye).
Locked doors show "A [color] keycard is required.", I think this could be misleading for newbies, as it suggests that there is no other way in. Maybe it could be phrased in some better way without hinting too much?
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Perhaps "you see a [color] keycard slot", which implies that it can be opened in such a way, but not that it is necessarily the "required" way.
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There is no "discoveries" command to list all known identified classes of items.
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Ah, it is good you remind me of discoveries command. It was postponed because floppy disk of computer virus purposefully mimicked another randomly chosen but not yet encountered floppy to misidentify itself. It was so powerful it would regularly fool me. In result there was tendency not to use programs at all until getting antivirus. Since this was removed there is nothing really preventing me from implementing discoveries list.
Door keycard message will be rephrased. I have not yet chosen wording but sure something needs to be done about it.
Droids and pets attack only if their hit points are not almost depleted. They also do not attack higher level monsters unless they are kamikaze. There is NetHack pet logic inside. In NetHack you also need to be very cautious or your pets will kill shopkeepers and other valuable allies. On the other hands droids should be programmable and just obey commands. No idea what to do about it. Perhaps Prime needs 'shout command' command.
Yes, for slaves 'restrained' would fit better.
By the way, I would like to support PRIME tiles in NotEye once they are released (probably interpret ASCII PRIME with PRIME tiles, in order to use other features of NotEye).
Very nice but I sense a problem. Some tiles are meant to be generated. Floppy disk labeled AAIO actually is created by layering AAIO label on a colored floppy disk.
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Indeed, it would be hard to label floppy disks AAIO with the usual NotEye approach (interpreting the Curses output). Would be easier with the integrated approach (just like Hydra Slayer animates stunned hydras).
Even without viruses getting a random name, it is still true than anything can be infected. It is very hard to avoid viruses, since antivirus is very rare, and there are usually not enough ways to identify disks. The character below has cracked an identify disk early, so he did not have this problem.
There is a funny way of recoginizing viruses: if my disks of identify do not go into a single inventory slot, then there is some difference between them, usually one of them is infected. Probably hard to fix reasonably (similar methods work in other roguelikes, too).
Gamma caves are somewhat confusing, in some cases it is hard to tell whether a space means a wall or unexplored land. Would be better with hashes on diagonals IMO.
There is no warning when I go into an acid pit. This is especially bad because an acid pit filled with items just looks like an item.
When I execute optimized transportation, I usually answer the question by moving the cursor somewhere and pressing space. I think it understands this answer as cancel.
If I have identified reflex coordinators and try a new one, and it is +0, then it does not become identified as +0. It should.
######## Zeno
#.....)# ##### ######## Programmer
#......#####...#####<..)..################## XL 20:19187
#......' +...+[ +......+ '....>........#
######'#####.M[#####'#########.............# Str 16 Con 11
######+#####...### #[# #.............######## Agi 19 Dex 16
# '...+...'.# # # #.............' +.[[# Int 21 Psi 7
# ######'#### # # ######'######+####.[[#
# # # # # # #.# #.# #.[[# Speed -15
####'### # # # # #.# #.# #.[[# Armor 39
# # # # # # #.# #.# ##### HitPts 120(120)
#[# # # # # #.# #.# Energy1035(1000
# # # # # # #.# #.# $10969 *35
#.# # # # # ######'# #.# Burdened
##### #.# # # # # #......# ##'##
# ########'## ##'######'# #......# # #
# ' +.>...######..[......# #......##### #
# #####!.[..+ [[.........#########......+ + #
# # #.(@.!######.........+ '......#########
##### ####### ########################## Space Base 15
What do you want to use? [BEGQRTVWcfjlmuwxy or ?]
Hot dog! You finally got your paws on the Bizarro Orgasmatron!
You use its awesome power to beam yourself off this two-bit space hulk.
Congratulations, you are the baddest motherfucker in the galaxy now!
--- INVENTORY ---
Energy Cells
o - 35 energy cells
Money
B - 10969 buckazoids
Weapons
b - an optimized +6 phaser (wielded)
a - an optimized +5 pea shooter
K - an optimized +5 assault pistol
O - a debugged +0 flamethrower
Ammunition
A - 227 bullets
Armor
Z - an optimized +4 radiation suit (worn)
f - an optimized shield belt (activated)
g - an optimized +2 pair of zealot leg enhancements (worn)
z - an optimized very burnt +2 superhero cape (worn)
S - an optimized burnt pair of x-ray goggles (worn)
Y - an optimized burnt +2 elven combat helmet (worn)
p - an optimized +6 aquamarine power armor (worn)
Bionic Implants
e - an optimized radiation processor (implanted in frontal lobe)
n - an optimized +5 reflex coordinator (implanted in parietal lobe)
d - an optimized +5 reflex coordinator (implanted in occipital lobe)
L - a golden torc (implanted in neck)
J - an optimized poison resistor (implanted in temporal lobe)
h - the optimized Eye of the BOFH (implanted in right eyeball)
Canisters
y - an optimized canister of speed
E - an optimized canister of plasma
V - 2 optimized canisters of healing
Ray Guns
P - an optimized transporter ray gun (4 charges)
r - an optimized healing ray gun (9 charges)
D - an optimized disintegration ray gun (8 charges)
I - an optimized heat ray gun (11 charges)
q - an optimized freeze ray gun (5 charges)
s - an optimized freeze ray gun (7 charges)
i - an optimized poison ray gun (7 charges)
U - an optimized disintegration ray gun (6 charges)
X - an optimized heat ray gun (6 charges)
k - an optimized transporter ray gun (5 charges)
Floppy Disks
H - an optimized cracked floppy disk of debugging
M - an optimized cracked floppy disk of transportation
v - 3 optimized floppy disks of transportation
C - a buggy floppy disk of lifeform detection
Tools
j - an optimized flashlight (activated)
W - an optimized master keycard
F - an optimized fission power plant (100 charges)
N - an optimized fusion power plant (100 charges)
w - a small energy tank (300 charges)
t - an optimized rabbit's foot
u - 2 blue pills
l - the Bazaaro Orgasmatron
x - 2 red pills
Q - the Bizaaro Orgasmatron
R - the Bizzaro Orgasmatron
T - the Bizarre Orgasmatron
m - a large energy tank (500 charges)
c - an optimized protected +1 bio computer
G - the Bizarro Orgasmatron
--- MUTANT POWERS ---
Power Level Chance Status
Haste 2 40%
Restoration 3 30%
Teleport 5 10%
Autolysis 6 0%
--- SKILLS ---
Combat Skills
Handguns (Dex) 15+0 (15)
Light Guns (Dex) 3+0 (5)
Adventuring Skills
Repair (Dex) 2+0 (15)
Programming (Int) 20+0 (21)
Spot (Int) 10+0 (10)
You had 9 unused skill points.
--- DIAGNOSTICS ---
Your speed was 85.
Your speed bonus was 15.
Your psionic modifier was -11.
You were somewhat resistant to piercing damage.
You were extremely resistant to poison.
You were extremely resistant to radiation.
You were somewhat resistant to psychic attacks.
You were lucky.
You were telepathic.
You had night vision.
You had X-ray vision.
You were a light source.
You were shielded.
You had an air supply.
Your body eliminated radiation.
You had been exposed to minimal levels of radiation.
--- KILL LIST ---
3 fuel barrels
17 warp fungi
18 grid bugs
22 bore worms
543 tribbles
56 flying toasters
7 mynocks
41 giant cockroaches
11 man eating plants
13 little grey aliens
6 ratbots
17 green killer tomatoes
10 mutant humans
13 space goblins
8 tapioca puddings
3 smart bombs
3 kamikaze goblins
1 catbot
3 dogbots
12 red killer tomatoes
13 redshirts
4 space orcs
13 alien eggs
8 vat slimes
9 cylon centurions
4 stormtroopers
1 protocol droid
1 scrubbot
2 high ping bastards
5 space orc pyromaniacs
3 creeping creditses
2 spotted lizards
2 cylon command centurions
4 klingons
10 cheerleader ninja
2 borgs
9 facehuggers
4 radbeetles
4 space orc bosses
1 alien princess
17 recognizers
10 radspiders
15 pink horrors
4 mi-gos
8 zerglings
1 Bene Gesserit
15 smart missiles
1 klingon commander
2 low ping bastards
6 space elves
5 hydralisks
1 striped lizard
1 cyborg ninja
10 mutant ninja turtles
10 radscorpions
the killer rabbit
1 alien warrior
4 tall grey aliens
6 brotherhood paladins
4 space elf lords
8 lawyers
10 aquamarine marines
5 mean green marines
2 50 foot women
2 reticulan dissidents
2 space elf queens
4 crazy chaos marines
2 rocket turrets
1 defiler
1 high templar
3 alien queens
19 checkered lizards
2 warbots
1 securitron
12 giant apes
the Bastard Operator From Hell
3 mail daemons
6 bind daemons
8 nntp daemons
11 ftp daemons
the Shodan
--- SUMMARY ---
Zeno finished adventuring on 2012-7-16.
Zeno earned 19187 experience points and achieved level 20.
Zeno attained the professional rank of Programmer.
Zeno collected 48187 score points.
- cracked an optimized disk of Identify, it was very helpful (never summoned any lawyers)
- later, also cracked optimized enhance implant and unbugged enhance armor
- used the following set of weapons: +1 phaser, +0 assault pistol, +0 pea shooter, +1 shotgun (all unbugged)
- found a matter compiler, was able to use it several times on piles of cosmic junk (got a master keycard, zealot leg enhancements, and a cape); with these enhancements and two +5 reflex coordinators, the character was very fast
- after reaching the Robot Town decided to go to the sewers (looked safer since I had a restoration raygun, so poison did not look dangerous)
- found the first power plant somewhere there (before, I had to use a scrubbot to convert all robots into energy)
- the high templar at the bottom level was dangerous (apparently drained my energy quickly from afar) but it was also found and defeated; found the second power plant on the bottom level (not sure whether there was anything special to be found, but it was useful anyway)
- entered the Mainframe, armor and shielding belt were good enough to be almost invulnerable, energy in the power plants was enough to destroy a daemon, and then I waited for them to recharge (an usual strategy, you can wait on a safer level to restore health and energy)
- the Shodan hit very hard, so I have decided to use a red pill
- had two blank disks, created an enhance weapon program (could not find any...) and a hacking program
- this was not enough as I have not found any optimization program, so I reformatted an optimized floppy, wrote a debugging program, and cracked it. Used it to optimize everything, and also used the optimized enhance weapon/armor to maximize everything
It took me about 100 tries (and consulting the sources for some spoilers) to win. It was the second character which had any success after reaching the Robot Town; the first one met some marines and did not know what to do about them (so he only reached level 12 or something).
Thanks for your work on this game! A very nice roguelike. I have won Zapm in 2004 as a Space Marine, but I do not remember it well enough to tell what has been changed.
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I made a list of all suggestions posted thus far and formed a to-do out of them. On 20th a release will happen with whatever stuff I manage to implement. Integration with Necklace of the Eye might be a worthy alternative to reinventing the wheel and doing things from scratch. I will have to consider the thing very seriously.
Gamma Caves: will be changed. Missing corners look cool in Sewers so but not necessarily in caves.
Acid pit: oh yeah, that too.
Transportation: done! Space and enter are recognized as confirmation. Only escape cancels.
Stat implants: bug fixed.
Congratulations! You are first person to report a win since Prime received a second developer. Your comments about how you achieved your victory are very helpful.
- The log says you farmed tribbles quite a bit. Was that because they multiplied too fast or you noticed they stopped giving experience late?
- Why you haven't activated haste? It almost benefit-only power costing merely two psi points to sustain.
- You had enough energy to have flashlight constantly on despite there is no darkness in the Mainframe. Happens to me too. I just forget.
- Why only four brain implants?
- Really niiice set of ray guns you had there.
- Lawyer summoning is random but using cracked software repeatedly in very short intervals increases this chance. You were lucky with cracked identify.
- Fission power plant is guaranteed item in Sewer Plant. That and radiation suit are two items that make this branch worth a visit.
- Glad to hear you killed the templar. They are formidable enemies. You also killed a defiler. Was it any threat to you?
- I sometimes too get trolled by the RNG and a certain type of floppy disk program does not appear at all. Fortunately for you Software Engineers get no penalties for writing not yet known programs. I think discovery command will list unknown floppy disks so one can have some idea what programs can be written.
- Good to hear you figured the pills.
I would like to know what exactly spoilery details you were looking for. This might be indication some knowledge that should be available easily is not.
Well, quite a lot of stuff is different in Prime. Too long to list but the major changes are at roguebasin page (http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/PRIME). Add to that lots of new items and monsters. Both me and Psiweapon are generally happy with changes.
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Integration with Necklace of the Eye might be a worthy alternative to reinventing the wheel and doing things from scratch. I will have to consider the thing very seriously.
Yes, I think it would be a good solution. Unforunately so far it almost lacks documentation and comments, so it is probably currently very hard to do any programming with it for anyone else than myself.
Integration is done by replacing Curses functions with ones from noteye-curses.h (only the functions I use in Hydra Slayer are done for now, and in some cases I implement HS's wrappers rather than original Curses functions, for example a wrapper "int ghch(int context)" (which should be in noteye-curses.h but is not) is used for input to circumvent the problems with arrow keys in Curses). Hydra Slayer has a special function which gives all the information about a given cell (as a Lua table), and NotEye calls this function directly instead of looking at the ASCII map. The current context (map/dialog/etc) is obtained from analyzing the ASCII screen, but with the integrated approach it is also possible to pass this information directly, if there are any problems with it.
The log says you farmed tribbles quite a bit. Was that because they multiplied too fast or you noticed they stopped giving experience late?
Yes, I have noticed that they do not give experience after > 3000. But I also noticed that this 3000 seems to give a substantial advantage for the rest of the early game (at least), so I go for it when I meet a tribble early. In this game I think they were one of the first monsters I met, but the level layout was such that they multiplied a lot and it was difficult to defeat them after 3000, so it took me a lot of kills to eliminate them.
- Why you haven't activated haste? It almost benefit-only power costing merely two psi points to sustain.
Forgot about it.
Why only four brain implants?
I think I had only mecha-dendrites (which conflicted with the helmet so used only when doing repairs and programming), health monitors (not very useful apparently), a +1 psi amplifier (which I did not find useful), and some useless ones.
- Really niiice set of ray guns you had there.
But the transporter one was the only one I actually used, I think. I tend to avoid using wands in roguelikes, because they are a limited resource, and I usually do not know how powerful they are.
- Glad to hear you killed the templar. They are formidable enemies. You also killed a defiler. Was it any threat to you?
A defiler seemed to be not a threat, the shield belt worked well.
- Good to hear you figured the pills.
Was quite obvious (and probably most players get the reference). But I did not risk using a red pill when facing Shodan. Used the transporter ray first. Also I did not try to use the fake Orgasmatrons.
I would like to know what exactly spoilery details you were looking for. This might be indication some knowledge that should be available easily is not.
I don't remember exactly what I was looking for, but:
- what are the chance of successfully using disks of hacking and blank disks?
- is it possible to get something out of an infected disk of identify?
- why did a grid bug have a force field?
- there are lots of strange pieces of armor, do they give any special powers?
- how to get rid of alien embryos?
- how to use the matter compiler? [it is not obvious that you should stand on a pile of matter to decompile... also it is strange that leftover matter is compiled into piles of cosmic junk, which is one of the heaviest items in the game and means that lots of matter is lost]
EDIT: The next version of NotEye will be a shared library, and will include a very simple sample "roguelike". So it should be easier to use for integration than the current version.
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Version 1.10 is uploaded and ready for download. Website awaits changes and proper release announcement but that will be made later.
http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/1.10/prime_win-1.10.zip (http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/1.10/prime_win-1.10.zip)
http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/1.10/prime_lnx32-1.10.tar.bz2 (http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/1.10/prime_lnx32-1.10.tar.bz2)
http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/1.10/prime_src-1.10.tar.bz2 (http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/1.10/prime_src-1.10.tar.bz2)
Turns out I left the preidentified flag on tricorder and it is not presented as gizmo in result.
Changelog: http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/changelog.txt (http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/changelog.txt)
Next steps: fix remaining minor issues, try toying around with NotEye and start laying foundations for Yautja equipment.
Z, you may read about the fake orgasmatrons in Artifact.cpp. You haven't missed much by treating them as trophies. For hacking and blank floppies changes are planned. Hacking will display known modifiers and final result will be computed as percentage chance like usage of mutant powers is. Blank disks probably will be "choose program to write from a list" deal instead type the name without typos stuff.
Infected floppy disk of identify is practically useless except for permanently blind characters like Xel'Naga. Then it reveals only appearance but even that can be good.
Examine screen received an overhaul and you no longer need floppy disk of analysis to receive information about armor resistances, intrinsics and ability modifications. Just have it identified and look.
Alien embryos ... hmm. Now I remember how I first thought only one quaffed canister type killed it in ZapM. A message suggesting to drink harmful stuff should go a long way.
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Here comes bugfix release.
Windows binary (http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/1.10a/prime_win-1.10a.zip)
Linux 32 bit binary (http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/1.10a/prime_lnx32-1.10a.tar.bz2)
Source code (http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/1.10a/prime_src-1.10a.tar.bz2)
Published first spoiler file for PRIME: on aliens (http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/PRIME/Aliens).
Website is also updated and has fresh screenshots. The old were featuring removed wisdom attribute and had charisma instead of psionics. That was just screaming for replacement.
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I will try to get some more playtime in and give you another batch of feedback once I stop being so damn busy :)
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Ok, got some more play time in. Here are some thoughts...
In various item descriptions, you get something like
"This object is vulnerable to fire"
"This item might be fireproof"
One of these statements contradicts the other. They should be combined to say "This object might be vulnerable to fire".
In the inventory, upon selecting a ray gun, i get some options such as:
v - wield
W - quaff
W - zap
As it turns out, v is zap, and obviously having W as quaff and zap must be some kind of mistake. This was with the Dungeon Crawl control set.
"Your professional rank is now mop boy": I found this quite charming :P
You can wield a monkey wrench thru selection in the inventory (it seemed to be my best melee weapon and worked well for me) but if you press w for wield it is not listed as an option, presumably because it is in the tool list?
I was doing rather well when suddenly my strength was reduced to 7 and i became overburdened. I tried waiting for it to be resolved but it never went up. I also removed all my items accept the necessities of weapon and armor and could not lose the burdened status. To add to this I apparently got exposed to radiation (strange because I had a geiger counter and it didn't alert me at all). I didn't know what to do so I pretty much died helpless in a corner :-\ That is the kind of unfortunate thing that I had no idea how to deal with that makes people not play a game again. I really like this game though so I will still play ;)
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I tried to convey the information althought given object type is vulnerable to fire a particular item may have been protected against it. It specifically says "object type", not object. Will improve that one.
Actually turns out crawl.cfg is fine. The display of object-verb command system was royally screwed. Fixed. Good catch.
You nailed the thing with wrench. Wield criteria takes into account weapons instead of any item that has known melee/ranged/aimed damage. Easy to fix. The wrench has 2-7 damage and chance to stun. Mop has 1-8 pus one from enhancement which makes it 2-9. More raw damage but stun is very useful sometimes. Its a toss up which is better. I usually stay with the mop.
I was doing rather well when suddenly my strength was reduced to 7 and i became overburdened. I tried waiting for it to be resolved but it never went up. I also removed all my items accept the necessities of weapon and armor and could not lose the burdened status. To add to this I apparently got exposed to radiation (strange because I had a geiger counter and it didn't alert me at all). I didn't know what to do so I pretty much died helpless in a corner :-\ That is the kind of unfortunate thing that I had no idea how to deal with that makes people not play a game again. I really like this game though so I will still play ;)
Strength dropping is caused by either poisonous melee monster attack, getting zapped by a poison ray gun or drinking poison. Ability damage must be cured with restorative items or powers.
Was your Geiger counter activated? It has to be on to work.
I drew two conclusions. First, strength damage should be outlined numerically and in red color to alert players to what is going on.
Second, radiation symptoms are too subtle. This might warrant a "required" spoiler if left that way, so making them stand out somehow is a good thing. I'll try yellow message color for a start.
Wait, third conclusion. Next spoiler should obligatorily be speaking about radiation in detail.
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The geiger counter was indeed activated. Since I'm not sure what the radiation message is, it is possible that I completely missed it.
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"Your Geiger counter starts clicking." If you stay within an area of constant level of radiation you will not get further messages. I will try my hand at making combat messages less plentiful. Then various messages should be harder to miss.
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You should fix the links on http://arcywidmo.republika.pl/prime/downloads.html
The description for floppy disks does not say that they are vulnerable to fire.
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Thanks! First is fixed, second will be soon.
Progress toward integrating NotEye is satisfying but I am fed up with this a bit so will try to nibble away at goal II for awhile instead.
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Hello. I had been looking for a roguelike to play for quite some time, and I think PRIME fits the bill. I came across it completely by accident. There is so little web presence for this game! I suggest someone make a thread for it at the Bay12 forums, where it will be sure to get some attention.
Also, some suggestions for the game:
- add a choice to randomize your class
- I think not having the inventory as "i" is unintuitive. Space is fine, but seeing as "i" is unused...
- Someone said they think the shooting should be kept the same. After playing Cataclysm, Brogue, DoomRL, and others, I disagree. I like to be able to shoot in other than a line. But you should do what you think is best for the game.
Thank you for continuing to develop PRIME.
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Hello.
Random choice will be available next version. 'r' for random from all except Xel'Naga (because those are very hard) and 'R' for totally random choice.
Will bind inventory to 'i' again. You are right. Silly of us to leave out such a canon key.
Eight directional targeting lies at the core of the game. It is unlikely to be changed at this point.
Thank you for feedback. I remember PRIME predecessor ZapM had a thread at Bay12 forums long time ago. I learned there was problem with 64 bit architectures thanks to a bunch of good folks who reported the problem. I'll be on the lookout and pay a visit when such thread appears.
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Eight directional targeting lies at the core of the game. It is unlikely to be changed at this point.
Agreed. I think the eight-way targeting is much more strategic and lends to more interesting gameplay than the alternative.
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Thank you.
Eight directional targeting lies at the core of the game. It is unlikely to be changed at this point.
That's fine.
Also, I think the feedback you would from Bay12 would really help you out. I'd make a thread myself, but I don't have an account there or do I know enough about the game yet.
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Another release is nearing so I think creating the thread can wait a bit. Besides, when the Roguelike Bundle takes off there will be plenty of opportunities to collect feedback. For now gotta try to fulfill the goals. Next version takes second aim off the list. Tiles release is almost finished too.
Edit (21 Aug): Release 1.11 is out. First 2.0 candidate could appear this week.
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A sneak peek:
(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/7620/primealiennest.png)
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6665/primemainframe.png)
Unfortunately a few troubleshooting resistant problems showed up unexpectedly delaying the release.
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Oh, wow.
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That green screenshot looks awesome!
To be honest, I personally think the ascii on this game is excellent, but I'm sure a lot of people will really like the tiles :)
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Damn, that is so amazing looking... How are the controls on the first person mode? With a minimap and arrow keys to rotate and move forward I could see that being a novel way to play.
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Wow, the Mainframe looks great!
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In FPP mode arrow keys rotate you and allow to go forward or backward. Numpad issues strafe movements without changing your view angle.
04.09.2012:
Didn't manage to pull off Windows build today so development version is only for Linux now. Also be wary of the source. This package does not contain Windows files (the build system is badly broken) nor NotEye sources.
Linux 32 bit binary (http://dungeon_keeper.republika.pl/tmp/prime_dev-lnx32.tar.bz2)
Source (http://dungeon_keeper.republika.pl/tmp/prime_dev-lnx32.tar.bz2)
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Aye mate!
Sorry if the files above already use NotEye (if so then I misunderstood your message and waited for a new version). I have downloaded the official ones now.
It is too late today for embarking on a real adventure, but it seems that the plain ASCII mode does not work. Also there seems to be no information that F3 is used for the NotEye menu.
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True, files above do use NotEye. I wanted to say you need to provide the front end shared library (or compile sources) yourself. These had a ton of problems so really nothing is lost.
Yes, plain ASCII needs to be invoked with "-a" instead of "-N --ascii". This is deliberate and employs NCurses by itself instead of relying on NotEye. Unfortunately it is not working on Windows because the game is relying on getopts() which is unavailable outside POSIX compliant systems. You need to reverse the test in main.cpp and recompile to force true ASCII at the moment.
Hmm. The game is supposed to say "Press F3 for Necklace of the Eye menu". For me it appears just below "send bug reports" line. Did you miss it or it really didn't appear? I should have changed welcome message so returning players would read it instead of just assuming it is as always.
Time to summarize Prime in the Incubator so far.
Goal I has been 60% met in its original form. However, the experience of trying PRIME under NotEye left both me and Psiweapon craving for more. We plan on overlay elements like DCSS has, some primitive animation (much like the ASCII mode does it), creating doors by stacking tiles representing color code, lock state, force field, etc. and introducing flavor pictures for items that need their type to be identified. If you identify purple ray gun as freeze ray gun the resulting picture will be that of purple ray gun with snow flake in corner. If you know item type but not appearance that also will be reflected. So more like 40% actually.
Goal II has been 95% met. There are no special rules of conduct for Yautja except not breaking a combi-stick.
Goal III has been replaced with polish. Pushed into our giant evergrowing to-do list it has high chances of being implemented in one of upcoming versions. Especially given that we have a tile for first skeletal robot already.
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ESC for menu does not seem to appear in the Help (at least for ADOM).
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Main menu command is not listed at all. In our help menu we made slight progress from ADOM-like alphabetical list of commands but this is still not good enough nowadays. I hope to achieve something similar to what DCSS does. Commands grouped by category in neat tables.
Edit: Here is someone trying to compile PRIME and NotEye on Mac. We could use your help.
http://roguetemple.com/forums/index.php?topic=2063.msg21841#msg21841
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My mouse wheel walks the character toward the cursor. Brilliant. Seriously brilliant.
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My mouse wheel walks the character toward the cursor. Brilliant. Seriously brilliant.
Seems to be an unintentional feature of NotEye. But nice indeed.
What happened to searching? There is no Search command, but there is a Search skill (also Spot).
You don't see the cursor when looking at stuff, probably something to fix in the next versions.
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My mouse wheel walks the character toward the cursor. Brilliant. Seriously brilliant.
Seems to be an unintentional feature of NotEye. But nice indeed.
Dafuq? Is that true? Awesome.
What happened to searching? There is no Search command, but there is a Search skill (also Spot).
You don't see the cursor when looking at stuff, probably something to fix in the next versions.
Just now I finished pixeling the cursors. So far I made a default one, a psychic power one, and an item-related one.
I'm also making some effects, the lack of laser bolts darting around really dampens the atmosphere.
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What happened to searching? There is no Search command, but there is a Search skill (also Spot).
You don't see the cursor when looking at stuff, probably something to fix in the next versions.
Searching is invoked by resting in place. This was motivated by wild drive to lessen the number of commands but really that was not a smartest move.
Yes, cursor is missing. It was not implemented for graphical release. Yet.
One thing is sure: I have not implemented the walk on mouse scroll feature. The news surprised me. You see ... such event where a certain feature undeniably exists but no one remembers putting it in is only possible in IT. At least elsewhere it is rarely heard of.
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Yes, plain ASCII needs to be invoked with "-a" instead of "-N --ascii". This is deliberate and employs NCurses by itself instead of relying on NotEye. Unfortunately it is not working on Windows because the game is relying on getopts() which is unavailable outside POSIX compliant systems. You need to reverse the test in main.cpp and recompile to force true ASCII at the moment.
Hydra Slayer always draws the ASCII screen, and NotEye simply ignores it unless in the plain ASCII mode ("mapregion" is cleared when we are on the map).
Hmm. The game is supposed to say "Press F3 for Necklace of the Eye menu". For me it appears just below "send bug reports" line. Did you miss it or it really didn't appear? I should have changed welcome message so returning players would read it instead of just assuming it is as always.
I simply missed it, probably. I suppose adding it to the Help screen would help.
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Searching is invoked by resting in place. This was motivated by wild drive to lessen the number of commands but really that was not a smartest move.
Maybe it is OK, but simply there is not enough information about this. Update the Search skill description and the Help screen ("Rest and search with 5 key.").
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Finally got a chance to play the new build...
In terms of the tiles, I think they are done quite well. I still prefer the ascii though ;)
The font looks kind of weird whenever it is placed over a gray background, which must have something to do with alpha blending:
(http://i.imgur.com/zJiAO.png)
When the program exits, rather than doing so smoothly I get a "this program has stopped working" message from Windows.
I think as a default, when choosing from a list of things to pick up, tapping the key should pick it up. I think this is more intuitive since pressing the pick up button when only one thing is on the ground grabs it immediately. Why do I need to confirm this action when choosing from a list?