Temple of The Roguelike Forums

Development => Programming => Topic started by: Hamish on November 27, 2011, 11:05:06 PM

Title: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on November 27, 2011, 11:05:06 PM

Hello people,

I'm here to sell my ware's, well give them away actually.

If anyone was thinking of sullying their projects with some graphics then they could check out my blog.I've started to make a roguelike tile set and would love to get some feedback.

I've always preferred roguelikes with ASCII displays (a strange position fro someone with an illustration degree) because they're suggestive and evoke more mood than detailed sprites. But I've got to give it a go dont i? In the spirit of low tech I have opted for 8 by 8 tiles, which will hopefully act as pictograms - being clearly readable and representational rather than explicit. well thats enough pretentious waffle for one post, if your at all interested you can check em out here, like i said it'd be great to get some opinions.

http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/
 (http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/)
Thanks a lot
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: getter77 on November 28, 2011, 12:03:11 AM
Looks to be a good effort underway to me, especially given how many projects got a handy boost out of the Oryx set from awhile back.  Congrats and keep at it!   8)
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on November 28, 2011, 12:11:42 AM

Ahh, tanks very much.

The oddball/oryx tileset was a bit of an inspiration for me, it is amazing how much that stuff got used! I'm just hopeing that if a do a good enough job my work will get incorporated into someones game, it seems a surer approach than searching for a programmer to work with exclusively.
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on December 05, 2011, 10:28:05 PM
Ahh, throw me a bone people, 60 views but only one reply (my thanks getter77, you are a gentleman).

I've posted up a fair bit of stuff now and could really do with some feedback, please check it out and let me know what you think.

http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/ (http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/)

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: getter77 on December 06, 2011, 03:52:55 AM
Still me at the least, but I applaud some spiffy looking Inventory Tetris you've got going there---reminded me of the one Diablo fangame straight away.

I'd suspect more folks here and otherwise will begin to weigh in once the various pieces start getting interwoven into congruent scenes for better effect---the whole Gestalt thing if you will.

Keep at it regardless, one never knows when something will come along totally new to somebody.   8)
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: george on December 06, 2011, 04:54:12 AM
hey Hamish, I like the visual style and your concepts. Once you start putting the monsters like the neanderthals, centaurs, etc. together though I feel like there isn't enough contrast between the different types to tell them apart very well.

The items are pretty killer. Nice throwing stars! :)
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Pueo on December 06, 2011, 05:34:44 AM
I especially like the MLT. Nice and lean. (and the tomato is ripe. I love that :D)
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: devonps on December 06, 2011, 08:38:12 PM
The cave mockup looks really good, keep up the good work, well done :)
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on December 06, 2011, 10:30:37 PM
Thank you for the feedback guys, its much appreciated.

I take the point about some of the sprites looking very similar, there is a lot of brown going on. Perhaps I could shift some of the colours to get a bit more differentiation.

On the other hand, I'm hoping that people use the different enemies discreetly, only mixing coherent groups - like bandits with wolves or centaurs and fawns. I always find it a big turn off when I enter a dungeon in a new game and encounter a thief, a giant amoeba, a dragon and a poltergeist all on the same floor. What are they supposed to be doing together, playing poker?

I'll try to get some more detailed mock screens up soon, with more by way of scenery and stuff. It's really encouraging to know people are taking an interest.

@pueo - yeah princess bride is awesome, I love low-key fantasy like that, there is nothing more fantastic in it than a big dude, some large rats and an albino, but it's still totally epic. I'm definitely going to have to make scenery for a thieves forest :¬)

Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: guest509 on December 07, 2011, 04:50:28 AM
  Hey hamish looking good. I saw you posting on the google group as well. We don't get a lot of artists around here. Mostly programmers, developers, players and hard core nerds. I think the guy that did the Zapm Mod called Prime (psiweapon) does some art as well.
  So you saying it's cool to use your art as long as we credit you?
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: jasonpickering on December 07, 2011, 05:40:04 AM
Looks pretty good so far. Doing super small sprites is a challenge. I went the other direction and used larger heads with smaller bodies to display my characters. I hope you dont mind me posting a mockup in here it might give you some ideas.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/30vyp83.png)

You might be able to get away with doing one wall. Kind of like the side of the island I did here, that would make it a little easier for people to program because they would only need to worry about a few tiles, instead of doing all the different ones.  (I have a better example if you need it)

also maybe think about doing a few floor textures. A you can use it to break up the monotony, and B you could use it to set up a grid system, which can be troublesome if the world generates large open areas.

As for the Sprites I think you did a good job in making things look different IE. centaur vs Ape vs Demon. the specific ones in that family are a little hard to differentiate, like the centaurs, especially if they are displayed smaller on screen then what you have there. It might be better to stick with one Type of each, although I guess that might be at the discretion of the game designer, perhaps in their game centaurs use bows so they use the sprite with the bow where someone else might use centaurs with axes.

and another thing is think about the location monsters will most likely be at, and when you draw them, do it on the base color for that areas tilemap. In my above example the main character is very readable, but if he is in an area that is very blue, then he would be much harder to see. That might be a problem with the sprites later on. I bet the Dark Ape, would be rather hard to make out against the cave floor, but if you were in a snow world he would really pop at the player.
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: ido on December 07, 2011, 09:48:03 AM
Looking really good Hamish!

Any chance of putting up a single zip file with all the assets in it?
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Psiweapon on December 07, 2011, 11:19:21 AM
Oh my we're starting to pile up!

Good luck hamish! :D Hope you make your way into a lot of projects!
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: konijn_ on December 07, 2011, 02:58:46 PM
Like the art, like your blog.

I am following this with interest.

T.
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Pueo on December 07, 2011, 03:01:02 PM
@pueo - yeah princess bride is awesome, I love low-key fantasy like that, there is nothing more fantastic in it than a big dude, some large rats and an albino, but it's still totally epic. I'm definitely going to have to make scenery for a thieves forest :¬)

My favorites are the ROUS's.  But I don't think they really even exist...
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on December 10, 2011, 02:15:46 AM
Many thanks for the encouragement once again guys.

@Jo - yeah, I might not have made it clear but yes, i'm releasing all this stuff on a creative commons licence. The only thing I'd rather people didn't do with them is start editing the graphics themselves, I'm happy to make additions if someone asks me.

@JasonPickering - I was worried that all the dungeon tiles might be a turn off but your right, people can just use the first two tiles on the list if they cant cope with the extra code.

I've tried the monsters against various backgrounds and they seem to work ok as long as i keep the floors dark. No snow for me I think :¬( My only real worry is that when the sprites are tight up against one another they might block together -I've tried to minimise that risk by setting them all as far to the right as possible (when they are facing left) It gives them a fighting chance of a bit of space when they square off against each other - we'll see if it works in motion I guess. Thanks for the constructive feedback, spriting has quite a bit of theory involved and its great to have more input.

@Ido - yeah I'll be putting together a proper sprite sheet soon, I'll be back for a bit of advice on the best way to order them and whether transparency is ok first, but my brain is too dried up to think about it right now.

blammo
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on December 11, 2011, 10:48:14 PM
Howdy folks.

Although I've still got a lot to do, I probably have enough stuff done to make my first version sprite sheet, but I need a bit of advice.

I know basically what to do (correct me if I'm wrong) - take out all the spaces between the sprites, set them against a transparent background and save them as a PNG. I've not done it before though and have a few questions.

ONE
Should I save monsters to one image file, furnature to a second and background tiles to a third? or should I save them all to one large file?

TWO
I don't want to mess up peoples referencing by moving things around later when im adding content. Should I leave empty space for later additions? For example, at the moment I have ten pirates, is it a good idea to make the file 15 blocks wide and leave the extra space for other piratey stuff I add later?

THREE
Is transparency ok to use? specifically I was thinking to put 50% opacity shadows under monster sprites to help ground them a bit. Will this cause problems for anyone and should I make a shadowless version of the files.

FOUR
Would it be helpful if I included a reference table for the sprites, and if so what format should it be?

FIVE
The only thing I was planning on animating was water and fire - just two frame boils. Do i just set the two frames next to each other on the tile sheet or what?

Sorry for the big dump of questions, I just want to package this stuff up in the most accessible and useful way possible. Any advice you guys can offer would be great, or if you know of any resources I could look at let me know.

Basically, how do you want it served up?





Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Pueo on December 11, 2011, 11:30:59 PM
I would direct you to:
http://www.minecraftwiki.net/images/7/78/TerrainGuide.png (http://www.minecraftwiki.net/images/7/78/TerrainGuide.png)
as a user-friendly sprite (although not really sprites) sheet guide.
Also,
http://minecraftterrainchanger.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/terrain-orig.png (http://minecraftterrainchanger.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/terrain-orig.png)
As the original sprite sheet (before the guide).
(Pictures are for a game called Minecraft)

Some points:

1: Only backgrounds/furniture are on this file (creatures are in a different file).
2: There is room for addition without moving things around.
3: There is transparency in the individual sprites (no shadows).
4: Reference tables are always helpful.
5: Look above for the water/lava sprites.

I think the above pics are good references for your questions.
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: guest509 on December 12, 2011, 05:56:04 AM


@Jo - yeah, I might not have made it clear but yes, i'm releasing all this stuff on a creative commons licence. The only thing I'd rather people didn't do with them is start editing the graphics themselves, I'm happy to make additions if someone asks me.


  Cool beans brother. I'll let you know if end up using your stuff. I think I'll probably make my own. But my skills are so feeble I might not be up to it.
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Psiweapon on December 12, 2011, 12:11:19 PM
Howdy folks.

Although I've still got a lot to do, I probably have enough stuff done to make my first version sprite sheet, but I need a bit of advice.

I know basically what to do (correct me if I'm wrong) - take out all the spaces between the sprites, set them against a transparent background and save them as a PNG. I've not done it before though and have a few questions.

ONE
Should I save monsters to one image file, furnature to a second and background tiles to a third? or should I save them all to one large file?
If they're for general-purpose use, put them in different files. Easier to understand and if some guy wants to use your critters but not the furniture or viceversa, they don't have to carry the added weight
Quote
TWO
I don't want to mess up peoples referencing by moving things around later when im adding content. Should I leave empty space for later additions? For example, at the moment I have ten pirates, is it a good idea to make the file 15 blocks wide and leave the extra space for other piratey stuff I add later?

Not moving tiles around is generally good practice, so yeah, leave excess room.

Quote
THREE
Is transparency ok to use? specifically I was thinking to put 50% opacity shadows under monster sprites to help ground them a bit. Will this cause problems for anyone and should I make a shadowless version of the files.
You probably shouldn't waste your time with partial transparencies, there's no guarantee that anyone who wants to pick up your graphics will have support for partial transparencies in their game engine, so in fact you're either wasting work or reducing the potential audience of the tileset.

Quote
FOUR
Would it be helpful if I included a reference table for the sprites, and if so what format should it be?
Of course it's helpful, and I'd say you go with a plain text file.

Quote
FIVE
The only thing I was planning on animating was water and fire - just two frame boils. Do i just set the two frames next to each other on the tile sheet or what?
Yeah, putting the two frames next to each other should suffice.
Quote
Sorry for the big dump of questions, I just want to package this stuff up in the most accessible and useful way possible. Any advice you guys can offer would be great, or if you know of any resources I could look at let me know.

Basically, how do you want it served up?

An my most honest piece of advice is that you download a copy of GrafX2 and at least try it out.  ( http://code.google.com/p/grafx2/ (http://code.google.com/p/grafx2/) )

Have fun, and glory!
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: corremn on December 12, 2011, 11:25:01 PM
THREE
Is transparency ok to use? specifically I was thinking to put 50% opacity shadows under monster sprites to help ground them a bit. Will this cause problems for anyone and should I make a shadowless version of the files.
You probably shouldn't waste your time with partial transparencies, there's no guarantee that anyone who wants to pick up your graphics will have support for partial transparencies in their game engine, so in fact you're either wasting work or reducing the potential audience of the tileset.

Yep, but maybe leave shadows a different colour than anything else you used, so that if someone wants to add transparency they can either mod the file or do it in game with an alpha channel based on the shadow colour.  Or if they do not want shadows they can select the shadow and delete it (fill it with background colour). Cheers.
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: eclectocrat on December 13, 2011, 11:50:20 AM
Hey!

You should put this up on TIGForums if it's not already there. Lots of people would be interested.

I can't wait to play a game or two that use your tiles.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on December 14, 2011, 01:29:58 AM
Thanks for the tips folks. It's a Shame about transparency, but I take your points. I think i'll just leave it out for now. If people are interested I can add it in later without much trouble.

I'm going to do my best to bundle what I've got by the weekend.

@eclectocrat - yeah I looked at posting on the tigs forums weeks ago, but couldn't decide which board to post on, their forums are vast. Also there seemed to be enough "hey, I totally rock at pixel art and have loads of great ideas, who wants to make my game for me?" kind of posts. Although that's pretty much what I'm about, I'd rather not come off that way :¬)

Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: george on December 14, 2011, 02:25:30 AM
I think if you just post up a progress thread at TIGs, in the vein of 'hi guys I'm making a free tile set and appreciate feedback and comments', that will serve you well. I'd put it in either Art (sub-forum of Creative) or Devlogs (sub-forum of Feedback) depending on whether you want much feedback or not.

Regardless, you should do it, they love pixels at TIGs and I think you'll fit right in :).
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: jasonpickering on December 14, 2011, 02:56:28 PM
actually under art, there is a workshop forum. that might be good also.
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on December 17, 2011, 10:24:57 PM
Well I posted a link on TIGs, and have had a whole blast of traffic from there. You guys are still my favorites though :¬) a far more refined level of conversation here.

I have failed to sort myself out and get a download ready but now I have all the advice I need with regards to indexing and what not. I'm off work for Christmas from next Thursday, so I will make sure I get it done before Christmas to leave in your stockings.



Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: guest509 on December 19, 2011, 02:15:21 AM
  hamish you have stumbled upon one of the most respectable and helpful internet forums. I have never seen a flame war here. They are a dime a dozen on other sites. Just about every post and response is filled with useful criticism and insight.
 
  For comparison go on any Modern Warfare or WoW site and ask a gameplay or design question. The answers will range from completely off topic, to attacks on your intelligence to answers that are facially incorrect. With only the occasional worthwhile thought.

  I started a thread patting ourselves on the back up in the 'world' part of this forum. Highly positive.
http://roguetemple.com/forums/index.php?topic=1782.0
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on December 21, 2011, 11:29:30 PM
Version 0.1 of my tileset is now ready to download - just head over to http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/ (http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/) and click the download tab.

It's only the basics at the moment, some level graphics and monsters. Item graphics will come a little later but there should be enough stuff for people to get started with.

I am desperate to see these make it into someones project, so as a little incentive to get people involved I am offering a small prize for the first person who posts a working level generator that uses my tiles.

Thats right folks, the lucky winner will receive any three of these exclusive Dungeoneer posters designed by myself - http://thomaswhetnall.blogspot.com/search/label/Dungeoneers (http://thomaswhetnall.blogspot.com/search/label/Dungeoneers)

printed using state of the art equipment (colour copier at work) and finished in a luxury high gloss (laminated) Don't miss out on this once in a lifetime opportunity!

*a bonus forth poster will be awarded if i can walk a little dude around the map :¬)
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: konijn_ on January 03, 2012, 07:45:29 PM
Greetings,

I am playing with your tiles and it would seem that the first set of background tiles is far too dark.

I was going to make the whole image brighter, but then your furniture tiles become too bright..

Anyway, giving this away is great, I hope you will draw some more in the future ;)

T.
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on January 04, 2012, 01:04:54 PM
Thanks for the feedback Konijn.

You're right the wall tiles are too dark at the moment, my colour management has been less than ideal so far. I will brighten things up in the next release, hopefully that will be in about a week. I'm going to try and include building exteriors and roofs as well as indoor water (for sewers, pools etc) and some more scenery.

Thanks for taking up my tiles, I look forward to seeing what you make of them.

Hamish.
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on February 06, 2012, 11:27:05 PM
Howdy guys,

Just to let anyone who is interested know, I have bundled up the second version of my tileset and it's ready to download from my blog. Its not the enormous update I had hoped for, but there should be enough new things for people to muck around with for a while.

Have a look and let me know what you think http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/ (http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/)

T
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Psiweapon on February 07, 2012, 01:24:00 AM
Hey!

Awesome pixels and very good ideas and insights.

I liked the discussion about potions and - scrolls?

Also, yeah, doors and how to display them can cause a bit of trouble.
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on February 09, 2012, 09:09:29 PM
Thanks man, thats nice of you to say.

I wasn't sure whether anyone would find the stuff I've written interesting. I'd keep going regardless though, just to stop game thoughts rattling around my head all day.

I think the face on doors is the only way to go with a roguelike, after all its a slippery slope towards 3d with real mapping and bloom effects :¬)
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on March 13, 2012, 12:06:04 AM
Howdy all,

Version 0.3 of the tileset is now available on my blog http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/

the main additions to this version are:

*   boss monsters(but only a few)
*   item graphics
*   interface graphics
*   custom ttf pixel font for tiny message logs

Cheers

T
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: guest509 on March 13, 2012, 08:18:29 AM
  IS that a giant Robot Man?
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on March 15, 2012, 10:54:57 PM
Hey Jo,

sorry for the delayed response, been busy 7dRLing.

I intended it to be a big steampunk mecha suit for a dwarf to wear. But honestly its whatever people want it to be, thats the nice thing about ambiguous lo res pixel art.

hows card like coming along? i cant wait to abuse the work printer making myself a copy :¬P
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: guest509 on March 16, 2012, 08:22:35 AM
  Well Cardlike 2.0: Quest For The Goat Horn is coming along. But I've taken a break to make the 7DRL.

-Jo
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Slash on April 13, 2012, 02:42:01 PM
This is looking pretty nice, thank! I might use it for Expedition :)
Title: Re: Tile set project
Post by: Hamish on April 14, 2012, 10:54:38 PM
Cheers fella, you're welcome to use them.

I Don't think I'll be able to top the period hats you have at the moment though :¬)