Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Websites => Temple of the Roguelike => Topic started by: Slash on May 15, 2007, 07:40:24 PM
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Rules
1. Respect
1.1. Discrimination based on race, gender, nationality, sexual orientation, or religious/spiritual beliefs will NOT be allowed.
1.2. Be respectful of the opinions of the other posters; if you disagree discuss in a civilized manner, and never resort to personal attacks.
1.3. The forums are open to the discussion of all subtypes of Roguelikes, including traditional turn-based roguelikes, action roguelikes ("roguelites") and, in general, procedural games with meta-progression. The debate of "what a roguelike is" has gone for ages, don't think you hold the ultimate truth about it. Do not bash people if their definition doesn't fit with yours.
2. Writing / Formatting
2.1. Make your best to write correct English, use punctuation marks, take your time to check the spelling. This is a turn-based world, there's no need to hurry
2.2. Do not deliberately make your posts inaccessible or hard to read (for example writing in ALL-CAPS, excesive formatting or "l337 writing")
2.3. Do not use foul language
3. Profiles
3.1. Images in signatures may be fancy in other places. Not here :)
3.2. Avatars are cool, but please keep them in context, do not use sexually explicit images and/or anything else that could be generally disliked. If in doubt, ask your nearest moderator.
4. Content
4.1. Discussion of topics unrelated to roguelikes, such as politics and religion is not allowed.
4.2. Advertising your roguelike is allowed, limit your promotion posts to 1 per week and keep a single thread for all your updates.
Moderation
Moderators at their discretion are enabled to proceed as follows:
- Delete the content of offending posts and threads, replacing them with the text: "(Deleted as offensive)", at their discretion.
- Delete subsequent posts regarding the discussion about deletion from the offender.
Executive Actions
Failure to comply with the above runs will result in warnings and ultimately a permanent ban if your behavior continues.
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Perhaps add a basic spell checking check box? Though I haven't seen too much in the way of terrible grammar or spelling so far -remarkable really.
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2.1. Make your best to write in correct english, use punctuation signs, take your time to check spelling.
I believe the phrase you are looking for is "punctuation marks".
Also, us -> use in section 3.2.
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Thanks!
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Oh c'mon just delete that bot already
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God damn it
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What is Rule 2.4 supposed to say?
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What is Rule 2.4 supposed to say?
Do not use leet writing (or, as it's more commonly called, leetspeak). It's a way of writing that replaces letters with numbers in an attempt to look cool and like a 1337 h4x0r.
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Oh, ok. Thanks
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I agree with all your suggestions and would further suggest as advised by lavastine that a spell check option should be included
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1.1. Roguelikers don't like trolls. Their favorite sport is to hunt trolls for some gold pieces or a miserable weapon. Don't take this risk.
Oh, damn...
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1.1. Roguelikers don't like trolls. Their favorite sport is to hunt trolls for some gold pieces or a miserable weapon. Don't take this risk.
Oh, damn...
Ha, I feel sorry for you now. :P
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Due to recent concerns expressed to me: How's about we get an addendum to 1, or at least 1.1, centered around knocking off any sexist/exclusionary/etc drivel that is more likely to discourage all sorts of people from posting than foster any manner of meaningful discussion?
I'd sooner prefer to not ban people outside of a spammer bot context, so it'd be swell if folks can just bear it in mind going forward after today so I need not trouble myself on deleting posts or worse. Unless Slash has some other thoughts on the matter?
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Due to recent concerns expressed to me: How's about we get an addendum to 1, or at least 1.1, centered around knocking off any sexist/exclusionary/etc drivel that is more likely to discourage all sorts of people from posting than foster any manner of meaningful discussion?
I really have to agree with this. Many topics get completely ruined by inappropriate discussion.
I tend to post little these days. Seems like you can't discuss anything without Krice taking a shit on everyone. Even reddit has a more positive vibe.
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I tend to post little these days. Seems like you can't discuss anything without Krice
Hey, that's an attack on a person. My "sexist" (read: accurate) opinions are just that, an opinion. If you want to use a rule where some opinions are not "right" then I'm going to leave here myself.
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I think this is covered by rule 1.2; everybody is entitled to have their own opinions, but should express them in a respectful way.
In no case should your opinions posted in this forum make people feel uncomfortable (that's what we mean with "bashing people"); more so, if they explicitly state it's happening and other members of the community express this concern.
There are no "right" opinions, but this is not a place to discuss that; all the Codex seeks is to maintain the harmony of this place and prevent discussion from being ruined with inappropriate participation. That should not be tolerated.
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In fact I don't know what Darren is referring when he takes me as an example, but it doesn't feel nice to be a target of such attack.
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These threads come to mind:
http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=4131.0
http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3822.0
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These threads come to mind:
http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=4131.0
http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3822.0
Lol. You responded to one of the most ridiculous "I'm innocent" pleas I've ever seen. I'm honestly laughing out loud right now. LOUDLY.
To be clear, tolerance means not tolerating intolerance.
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Both "booth babes" and "girl gamers" issues are perfectly valid. If we ban booth babes what comes next? Do women have to wear burkha? And "girl gamers" then.. don't even ask. I'm just saying that you can totally ignore the reality, but it's not what all people do. It's more like american way to look at things, or not to look.
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These threads come to mind:
http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=4131.0
http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3822.0
Better example: http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=4007.msg36422#msg36422
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Both "booth babes" and "girl gamers" issues are perfectly valid. If we ban booth babes what comes next? Do women have to wear burkha? And "girl gamers" then.. don't even ask. I'm just saying that you can totally ignore the reality, but it's not what all people do. It's more like american way to look at things, or not to look.
Krice the martyr. :o
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To be clear, tolerance means not tolerating intolerance.
Isn't it just a clever way of saying "my view is better than yours"? :P
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To be clear, tolerance means not tolerating intolerance.
Isn't it just a clever way of saying "my view is better than yours"? :P
No.
As always,
Minotauros
PS. We did it again – turned even this sticky thread about the Codex into a trollhouse. Huzzah!
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Better example: http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=4007.msg36422#msg36422
Ugh, I didn't even see that one.
Is it too much to ask to ban sexism from the forums? Or must we wait till Krice starts saying black people are terrible at roguelikes?
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While you're at it, why not warn Krice not to stuff beans up his nose?
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Is it too much to ask to ban sexism from the forums?
I sure as hell hope so.
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I think such rule changes ought to be instituted. I am eager to see the resulting avalanche of pent up participation from the reticent multitudes put off by Krice's comments.
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Very funny, shroomie :P Truth is, I've on several occations received PMs by users who after some weeks or months just quit because they can't be bothered with all that bovine dejecture. But I'm principally in agreement with Slash in this matter, and hoping the community itself is able to keep the discussions at a certain level. If not, I can always just pack my shit and leave myself. Yet, to all you stark defenders of "free speech", if you're having a party and one guest is harassing another for being black/gay/a woman/jew/whatever – are you seriously telling me that it's the victim of abuse you'd show the door?
As always,
Minotauros
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Very funny, shroomie :P Truth is, I've on several occations received PMs by users who after some weeks or months just quit because they can't be bothered with all that bovine dejecture. But I'm principally in agreement with Slash in this matter, and hoping the community itself is able to keep the discussions at a certain level. If not, I can always just pack my shit and leave myself. Yet, to all you stark defenders of "free speech", if you're having a party and one guest is harassing another for being black/gay/a woman/jew/whatever – are you seriously telling me that it's the victim of abuse you'd show the door?
As always,
Minotauros
I'm no free speech booster and I agree that it's important to keep things reasonably civil and inoffensive to normal sensibilities. I'm just responding to the implication that low volume outside of announcements is the result of not-very-aggressive trolling/obnoxiousness from Krice as opposed to more mundane factors.
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Is it too much to ask to ban sexism from the forums?
That wasn't a sexist message, just a fact.. I think what we should ban from this forum is hate against people like me. It's not my fault I'm better than you - at everything.
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I have really big issue with people not treated equally (be it gender, colour, sexual orientation or other equality). It is really sickening what kind of crap people have to deal with in professional environment and we do not need any of that in the forums. I really would like to see this dealt with in an appropriate manner and not just "lets not offend anyone and lets play nice together".
I know I may come across a bit angry, but the truth is, that I'm angry about this.
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I have really big issue with people not treated equally
Treating people equally and what they are are two different things. Then again.. WHAT do these knights mean when they say "treat equally"? It's in fact not possible to do it. You don't treat equally your friends and let's say a terrorist. Or some ugly fat woman and Scarlett Johansson. They are not equal, no one can treat people equally in all circumstances. Well.. except maybe a buddhist monk, but which one of us is one? People take these things to the extreme, like "treating people equally" or "anti-racism" and they attack everyone who isn't a believer of these lies.
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I have really big issue with people not treated equally
Treating people equally and what they are are two different things. Then again.. WHAT do these knights mean when they say "treat equally"? It's in fact not possible to do it. You don't treat equally your friends and let's say a terrorist. Or some ugly fat woman and Scarlett Johansson. They are not equal, no one can treat people equally in all circumstances. Well.. except maybe a buddhist monk, but which one of us is one? People take these things to the extreme, like "treating people equally" or "anti-racism" and they attack everyone who isn't a believer of these lies.
If you read again, what I wrote, you'll notice that I said "equally" not "same". Equally, as "I don't think you are stupid, because you are different colour/gender/orientation", not as "I don't think you are stupid, even if you are.".
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Can we just ban this idiot. Please.
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As a new forum member, I can say that I haven't been scared off by Krice's posts. I rather had a laugh here and there rather than was offended, even though I don't agree with what he says.
The fact is this forum used to be an island of peace in an interweb full of bullshit. Krice was just our cranky uncle we ignored. But in the past little bit he's become a hateful cunt. His bullshit "logic" does nothing to assuage that.
This is a site about roguelikes, not jews or Russians or your little wiener or women or his bullshit politics. The offtopic forum is fine, Krice. Chill the fuck out on the rest. Seriously. I'll still visit your site and comment from time to time. I still think you are the worst the internet has to offer, an intelligent person who intellectualizes their bigotry.
You are better at everything? That's a delusion. Your roguelike Teemu has less traffic than my 7DRL, let alone a top 7DRL or a full fledged game. Your addition to the roguelike scene is ZERO. And your Kaduria will never amount to anything. I hold out hope though, because if anything you know how to program. How to interact with humans? How to hold a bigger picture of humanity? Nay. But how to program? You got that.
Better at everything? When we meet and I'll slap you around like the weak fat little bitch you are, what then? Do you think you are better at that? Nay. I'll video tape it and post it here and be a hero. If you'd ever show up at a roguelike gathering the bitch slap will happen, they are always just a short jaunt away from your home but you never show. Because you are a coward. Trolls hate the light. They live under bridges. Being deported would be so worth it.
It awaits to be seen if you can pull of a game that fits your narrow definition of roguelike. I'd love to play it. But you will not succeed. Teemu is barely interesting. I'm a shit game maker and have made a game far more interesting in 7 days.
In the interim, whining in your cave, you ruin these forums.
I actually skip past your posts Krice, file them over "cunt idiot yammers about his little dick."
Krice should be banned forever. This would increase participation. Tolerance is not about tolerating intolerance, it's about intolerating intolerance.
Krice is a shameful member of our community.
Feel free to check my post history. I'm a very reasonable guy. Friendly.
Here's what strikes me in such discussions - too often people who label themselves 'tolerant' are in fact full of hate towards people who don't share their opinions. If you ask me, that isn't any better than hating blacks because they're black or hating women because they're women.
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I hate to post in a minefield, but guys, there's no rule change or collective agreement you can make that will work as well as a couple of benevolent dictators working behind the scenes. People with good conscience and a sense of order (Getter and AgingMinotaur come to mind) should simply make holistic decisions as they see fit. The maesters don't hold Westeros together; Varys does. There's really no need for this discussion.
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Here's what strikes me in such discussions - too often people who label themselves 'tolerant' are in fact full of hate towards people who don't share their opinions. If you ask me, that isn't any better than hating blacks because they're black or hating women because they're women.
Really? Do you seriously not see the difference between hating someone because of their opinions/beliefs and hating someone because of an unchangeable physical characteristic?
I mean, even if you don't believe someone can change their beliefs, they can certainly keep them to themselves, especially in a discussion that has nothing whatsoever to do with those beliefs. Sure, on the Internet, someone could hide their race/gender, but that would involve a lot more work.
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Here's what strikes me in such discussions - too often people who label themselves 'tolerant' are in fact full of hate towards people who don't share their opinions. If you ask me, that isn't any better than hating blacks because they're black or hating women because they're women.
Really? Do you seriously not see the difference between hating someone because of their opinions/beliefs and hating someone because of an unchangeable physical characteristic?
I mean, even if you don't believe someone can change their beliefs, they can certainly keep them to themselves, especially in a discussion that has nothing whatsoever to do with those beliefs. Sure, on the Internet, someone could hide their race/gender, but that would involve a lot more work.
Obviously he's referring to the deleted post he quotes and overreacting. I would say threatening to assault someone if they show up at the same event as you edges out Krice's obnoxious interweb commentary in terms of metrics like "similarity to Hitler," etc.
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Hello folks,
I am hereby granting executive power to the the moderators to:
* Delete the content of offending posts, replacing them with the text: "(Deleted as offensive)", at their discretion
* Delete posts regarding discussion about deletion.
* Delete offending threads at their discretion
* Mark continuous offenders with the shameful title of "Troll" on their forum profiles should they continue displaying offending behavior.
Behavior considered offensive consists on the following:
* Discrimination against someone based on his race, gender, nationality, sexual orientation or beliefs
Examples of messages posted by Krice here qualify as offensive. These discussions are regarded as non-constructive in the Temple of The Roguelike forums, the codex has been updated accordingly.
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Hello folks,
I am hereby granting executive power to the the moderators to:
* Delete the content of offending posts, replacing them with the text: "(Deleted as offensive)", at their discretion
* Delete posts regarding discussion about deletion.
* Delete offending threads at their discretion
* Mark continuous offenders with the shameful title of "Troll" on their forum profiles should they continue displaying offending behavior.
Behavior considered offensive consists on the following:
* Discrimination against someone based on his race, gender, nationality, sexual orientation or beliefs
Examples of messages posted by Krice here qualify as offensive. These discussions are regarded as non-constructive in the Temple of The Roguelike forums, the codex has been updated accordingly.
There's an element of contradiction in this, after all, aren't you discriminating against Krice based on his beliefs?
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
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Here's what strikes me in such discussions - too often people who label themselves 'tolerant' are in fact full of hate towards people who don't share their opinions. If you ask me, that isn't any better than hating blacks because they're black or hating women because they're women.
Really? Do you seriously not see the difference between hating someone because of their opinions/beliefs and hating someone because of an unchangeable physical characteristic?
I mean, even if you don't believe someone can change their beliefs, they can certainly keep them to themselves, especially in a discussion that has nothing whatsoever to do with those beliefs. Sure, on the Internet, someone could hide their race/gender, but that would involve a lot more work.
*sigh* But can Krice keep it to himself? He has often posted sad posts which reflect a challenged life. You could accept he might be intellectually handicapped, some degree of chromosome damage, or to a lesser degree have autistic, aspergers, and ignoring his nonsense and taking what he has to offer positively and discouraging the rest without being hurtful. Instead, his occasional outburst of tourette syndrome or whatever, is piled upon gleefully. Post after post is made of hateful stuff. It's okay to be the hater, if you can get the community to see you're hating in the name of what's right.
We ostracise someone who has problems, yet something to offer, simply because the most vocal and likely least productive bellyache endlessly.
It's too bad that the easiest solution we turn to, at the egging of the vocal minority, is to stone the leper.
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I've said my piece about how this is wrong. I'll stop posting on it now.
But the last thing I wish to point out is that how this invisible deletion has gone so wrong on other forums. There needs to be a record of all moderator actions so that they are accountable for their actions. I've seen too many an entitled moderator pushing his own agenda, and deleting at will. Have an official thread somewhere where all moderators have to record all deletions.
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I agree that moderation action should be public, so that others understand why action has been taken. Lessons won't be learned if it all happens invisibly.
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Beliefs as in religion/spiritual beliefs, which is different as unrestricted offending opinions.
We decided against banning users because we won't judge individuals as a whole but rather prevent individual actions from disturbing and blocking or straying out discussion. We believe trolls have something interesting to say from time to time.
I believe our select and very small group of moderators can do a good job at this, plus we think a lot before taking actions like this. I like the idea of the moderation log though. (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=4161.0)
People, let's talk about roguelikes.
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Having thought a bit...+1 to what Slash is saying.
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To be clear, tolerance means not tolerating intolerance.
No it doesn't. Tolerance means tolerating things and it doesn't mean not tolerating things.
If your intention is to destroy intolerance or to tolerate only worthy ideas/people, then please express it as such.
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Rules of Behaviour updated
- Updated copy for rules 1, 1.1, 1.2, 2 and 2.3* (former 2.5)
- Added rule 1.3 regarding non traditional roguelikes
- Condensed rules 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4 into new 2.2
- Added section 4 for Content rules
- Edited Moderation section, removing the reference to the Moderation log thread and the "Troll" title
- Added Executive Actions section
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What's with the change of heart? I think I prefer the spambots to this...
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I'm guessing you are referring to the changes in the board structure? for a long time I had already mentioned we welcomed discussion of non-traditional roguelikes, so this was just a more direct action to back those words.
I love traditional, turn-based, grid-based, character-display, perma-death, rogue-likes, but I strongly believe allowing discussions of a broader type of games that share fundamental features will help evolve both types of games, and may also make more people know about these traditional games we love.
I'm actively trying to _teach_ people about these "traditional roguelikes", instead of punishing them for not fitting my personal take of the genre, I want to pique their interest if they ever manage to land into the forums ("what's with that background image, what does it represent?"), I believe both worlds have a lot to learn from each other.
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I don't like the increased strictness in moderation. Seeing that stuff going on makes me very uncomfortable.
Though the forums could have used some renovations this seems like a steep price to pay.
Non-traditional roguelites having a section is fine with me. I coincidentally agree with your interpretation.
I think having specific sections for them is less controversial if anything.