Author Topic: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)  (Read 66517 times)

Omnivorous

  • Bishop
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
    • View Profile
Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« on: October 11, 2009, 03:40:49 AM »
After Slash's competition-thread in "Rogue", I found it very fun and inspiring to keep trying to win in Rogue, just because I could communicate with people that I know were struggling just like me, and just as desperate as me to FINALLY make it, and BEAT the game! :)

This is an attempt at recreating the same excitement in/around Crawl/Crawl SS for myself and anyone else who have yet to beat the game!

I would love it if we try to tell the tale of our attempts within -one- post in this thread, and perhaps post questions/asking for advice elsewhere. Also I suggest we don't fill this thread with huge chardumps unless it is a victory! ;D

What do you guys think..? Anyone with me?!? LETS INVADE THE DUNGEONS OF CRAWL!

Vanguard

  • Protector of the @
  • *****
  • Posts: 1112
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2009, 07:26:37 AM »
Crawl never really "clicked" with me, but doing the Rogue thing was fun, so I'll probably do a few runs.

Omnivorous

  • Bishop
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2009, 07:10:25 PM »
How far have you gotten though Curseman? And with what char(s)?

Vanguard

  • Protector of the @
  • *****
  • Posts: 1112
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2009, 11:51:43 PM »
Not very far, like I said, I don't really "get" crawl.  The farthest I've gotten was to the orcish mines.  I think I was playing a human elementalist?

The last few time I've played I've been doing a vampire, since they aren't restricted quite as badly as the others by food.  I've been playing a necromantic death knight mostly because it fits with the character theme.

Omnivorous

  • Bishop
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2009, 12:05:30 AM »
I don't understand the food-issue.. Why don't you just chop up some corpse (one that is not poisonous) right before/right after you get hungry? 'C'hop up those corpses, use a sharp weapon! My experience with vampires is that.. they suck! :P

Just know that in Crawl, every floor that is fully explored has 3 down-staircases and 3 up-staircases. (Trapdoors does not count!) And it's well worth exploring all floors fully. Especially for stores etc. that you can fast-travel to if you need.

I think I'll create and send acouple of wizards to certain death before I attempt a decent run with some Minotaur/DeepDwarf Berserker or Crusader!

Goodluck mate :)

Vanguard

  • Protector of the @
  • *****
  • Posts: 1112
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2009, 05:52:26 AM »
I don't understand the food-issue.. Why don't you just chop up some corpse (one that is not poisonous) right before/right after you get hungry? 'C'hop up those corpses, use a sharp weapon! My experience with vampires is that.. they suck! :P

Really it has more to do with the principle than anything.  I like to take things at my own pace.  Since instead of dying without food, vampires can't heal without food, it makes the food requirement acceptably merciful (to me), without removing it entirely.

Goodluck mate :)

Thanks, you too!

Edit:

Dracula, the level 6 vampire Death Knight was defeated by "Prince Ribbit" of all things.  Oh the shame...
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 06:27:45 AM by Curseman »

Rabiat

  • Priest
  • **
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2009, 07:52:34 AM »
I'm with you Omnivorous. I've beaten Crawl only once, in v4b26. That was a long time ago, and hardly qualifies for the Stone Soup versions. After a long hiatus, I picked up Stone Soup somewhere around the release of v0.5.0.

My characters usually die early (overconfidently entering the Orcish Mines or the Snake Pit) or somewhere around character level 15-17, carrying one or two runes. Recently I've taken up the plan to play only Mountain Dwarf Fighters (with Axes, worshipping Okawaru) because it's said this is the most powerful combination to play.

I'll return for advice as soon as I've managed to get another one killed (i.e., soon).

Vanguard

  • Protector of the @
  • *****
  • Posts: 1112
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2009, 08:09:46 AM »
As a vampire monk I lived to level 8 and got up to the orcish mines.  The sorcerers there took off about half of my health in a single round, so I ran away, to later be destroyed by killer bees.

Is it just me, or is combat in this game ridiculously random?  Like sometimes I'll hit a guy once and he'll die, and sometimes I'll swing at a guy of the same type 10 times, hitting twice for about one hit point's worth of damage each.

Omnivorous

  • Bishop
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2009, 10:23:06 AM »
Is it just me, or is combat in this game ridiculously random?  Like sometimes I'll hit a guy once and he'll die, and sometimes I'll swing at a guy of the same type 10 times, hitting twice for about one hit point's worth of damage each.

Well, ALL roguelikes are "random", I guess just as in all other roguelikes, Crawl is about having the ODDS on your side.

One thing that is important for combat is that you try to make use of your race/class (not sure which one it is) aptitudes. Just press questionmark, and then '%' to see aptitudes. Your current character will be highligthed. You can also do this during creation, by pressing '%'. Low numbers = Good. Your character will not live long unless you make use of his/her specialities.

As for food, I think perhaps your first runs have 'scarred' you and you now think food is a bigger problem than it really is.. ;) Food is really mainly there to help prevent grinding/scumming, and should generally not be a problem aslong as you chop up edible corpses when you get a chance!

Make use of religion too. Trog is VERY powerful for all melee classes, and if you remember to pray and chop up corpses to sacrifice to him, he'll eventually shower you with god-gifts/random artifacts.






***Spoiler***
The Hive is VERY rich on great food too. But having some source of poison-resistance before entering there is reccomended.

Anvilfolk

  • High Priest
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2009, 10:25:29 AM »
I suck at crawl, even though I love it. I rarely manage to get very far :(

I don't have any scores from previous versions, so I'll have to get back to you later on those accounts! Good luck all!
"Get it hot! Hit it harder!!!"
 - The tutor warcry

One of They Who Are Too Busy

Omnivorous

  • Bishop
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2009, 10:53:16 AM »
Uggh, I should've never mocked the need for food.. This poor High Elf Crusader-bastard died as lvl4, dungeonlevel 2, Starving and poisoned to death.. For some reason NOTHING dropped corpses.. Wonder if that's because I kept having my sword enchanted with fire/ice, or if I was just very unlucky..

Rabiat

  • Priest
  • **
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2009, 03:02:07 PM »
I don't understand the food-issue.. Why don't you just chop up some corpse (one that is not poisonous) right before/right after you get hungry? 'C'hop up those corpses, use a sharp weapon! My experience with vampires is that.. they suck! :P

Food shouldn't be an issue in the early game. In some locations in the later game, like labyrinths and branches populated with monsters that don't leave edible corpses, it can be. If you stockpile and stash food in the early game, and eat corpses whenever possible, you'll avoid food problems in the late game.

Is it just me, or is combat in this game ridiculously random?  Like sometimes I'll hit a guy once and he'll die, and sometimes I'll swing at a guy of the same type 10 times, hitting twice for about one hit point's worth of damage each.

Combat isn't all that random in my experience. It's exceptional that the RNG appears to roll against you for a longer period. Usually there's a reason. You may be wearing an uncursed unidentified amulet of inaccuracy, or just switched to a heavier armour type, which makes it much harder to hit things. Or your opponent is lucky enough to be wearing en enchanted piece of armour.


Edit:

I'll return for advice as soon as I've managed to get another one killed (i.e., soon).

I said soon, not immediately. >:(

McNugget the L10 Mountain Dwarf Fighter, Elder of Okawaru, was unlucky enough to go down the stairs to D:11, only to be immediately surrounded by a colourful band of orcs. Bravely, he fled upstairs, hoping to lure the orcs into passageway, and finish them one by one. Great was his terror when, back on D:10, he faced the mocking grin of a newly spawned hungry ghost, blocking the only way out. An orc, an orc fighter, and an orc priest happily proceeded to beat him to a pulp. He read a teleport scroll, quickly downed his last potion of heal wounds, and uttered an intensely profane curse word at the orc priest, before being smitten by Beogh...

Useful items were kind of scarce this time. The only good item I found was a +2 chain mail with 2 levels of fire resistance, which I plucked off a dead unique (probably Edmund on D:6). The only artefact I found was a randart -4 large shield with -5 Int, which is a good joke (unless you're a troll, in which case it's a moderately funny instakill).

I guess the lesson I've learned from this is to be careful around staircases when surrounded. I might've made it if I immediately teleported on D:11 in stead of fleeing upstairs. Only after reading the morgue file I realized I could've escaped on D:10, just by zapping my recharged wand of digging.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 07:20:44 PM by Rabiat »

Anvilfolk

  • High Priest
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2009, 09:12:01 PM »
AWwwwww man! Level 10 Mountain Dwarf Fighter just died, 7129 points. There I was, clearing the enemies from an open-space, when 'lo and behold, two skeletal warriors/fighters show up. Well, I've taken one of them on before, and have plenty of scrolls of teleport. I'll give it a go.

One of them had a What's'His'Name Axe of Distortion. A couple of hits and he made me blink. What the heck was that, thought I!? Ok, second round. He hits me again. Teleports me into the Abyss!

It didn't look so bad. A couple of minor demons and another skeletal warrior following me - still doable. I get myself into an small alleyway and think I'll fend off the smaller demons in case they cut me off. All of a sudden - BAM - three Nagas surround me. They spit on me, poison me, start prodding me with weapons. I quickly read a scroll of teleport. No dice... it says I'm about to teleport, but NOTHING HAPPENS.

And of course, worshipping the Shining One must've been the most idiot choice I made. I'd found a bunch of great items too: ice dragon armour, plate mail +1, boots +1, rings of regeneration and invisibility, all of that made AC 20... I had it all. Until the Axe of Distortion struck home.

Next time I'll piss off The Shining One and go over to Okarawu or Trog. At least they'd value my killing :(

"Get it hot! Hit it harder!!!"
 - The tutor warcry

One of They Who Are Too Busy

Vanguard

  • Protector of the @
  • *****
  • Posts: 1112
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2009, 09:40:50 PM »
Alright, well I think a problem with my guys sucking might be that your choice of race and skill specialization are really important in this game.  Since I don't really like playing pure fighters, what's the best mage race?  Deep elves?  How are demigods?  Are their high attributes worth having their lackluster skill set?

Edit:

Yeah, I tried a deep elf ice elementalist and a demigod fighter, and both were far easier to play than the vampires I was doing before.  Neither encountered the problems I had before with overcoming the defenses of basically everything I ran into.  With the demigod especially, the run was just "hit o, and when you see a monster, run into him repeatedly," and I got much farther than that level of mindlessness should take me.

With that said, I think the blood system is a lot more fun than the food system, so I will probably stick with vampires for a while.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 10:09:30 PM by Curseman »

Omnivorous

  • Bishop
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
    • View Profile
Re: Never beat Crawl? Enter here! :-)
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2009, 11:26:45 PM »
Alright, well I think a problem with my guys sucking might be that your choice of race and skill specialization are really important in this game.  Since I don't really like playing pure fighters, what's the best mage race?  Deep elves?  How are demigods?

Do you play "Vanilla" Linleys Dungeon Crawl or Crawl Stone Soup? Stone Soup have three tutorials, I believe one is High Elf Conjurer which is a powerful spellcaster. My problem with these "pure" spellcasters is to get them past level 6.

I've heard alot give the advice to make figthers, then "turn them into spellcasters"... I have no idea how to do this though.. XD I tried Demigods abit too but found them boring. They level so slow, and after a few levels seem mediocre instead of powerful.

There are some pretty interesting hybrid-classes. Try a Wrath Death Knight for example - Death Knights have combat-magics. I've found the Crusader class to be more and more interesting.. Check out that spellbook, it makes bashing alot more fun imo.


Next time I'll piss off The Shining One and go over to Okarawu or Trog. At least they'd value my killing :(

Haha good idea man, especially for a pure figther... Dare I ask how the hell your poor Mountain Dwarf Figther ended up with The Shining One as his god..?! ;) Even for pure casters, The Shining One is abit "vague" as a god. It supposedly helps you, takes the edge of miscasting and as your relationship with it evolves, you will gain spellbooks as gifts...I think.. But the only way I know of to strengthen the relationship to this god is to train alot of different types of spells.

Sounded like a pretty powerful char.. With Trog I'm sure it could've atleast cleared out Orc Mines!


Quote
found was a randart -4 large shield with -5 Int, which is a good joke (unless you're a troll, in which case it's a moderately funny instakill).
Hahaha, nice one... Pretty unlucky at the stairs though.


I reached 120k score once with a pure figther, Minotaur Berserker, but I got abit bored when playing it and basically murdered him on a suicide-run in the bottom of Elven Halls. So I am trying to find a more balanced class, spellcaster or a hybrid spellcaster. Not any chars worth mentioning yet though.. :/