Author Topic: For those who have played unix Rogue a lot  (Read 2388 times)

hathat

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For those who have played unix Rogue a lot
« on: February 13, 2016, 12:18:05 PM »
Hey guys,

If you've played the shell/command-line/console based unix Rogue a lot,
what would you guess is the maximum amount of the same kind of monster you have ever seen in one level?

hathat

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Re: For those who have played unix Rogue a lot
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2016, 11:39:16 AM »
Maybe no one here has played the console unix Rogue, haha  ;D
Let's expand the question to those who have played any version of Rogue then, console or graphical.

What's the maximum amount of any particular monster you have ever seen on the screen at the same time?

Thanks guys

Krice

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Re: For those who have played unix Rogue a lot
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2016, 12:29:42 PM »
What's the maximum amount of any particular monster you have ever seen on the screen at the same time?

What kind of question is that? Do bots like to think stuff like that? Count numbers elsewhere.

hathat

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Re: For those who have played unix Rogue a lot
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2016, 01:28:46 PM »
Hi Krice,

Thanks for replying.  :)
I'm not quite sure what you are asking. I'm not a bot. And I'm not coding an automated Rogue-playing program, if that's what you meant.
Let me explain why I ask.

I heard about Rogue (and roguelikes) quite a few years ago, and have finally started playing it recently - command-line version 5.4.4 to be exact.
I like it a lot, and I had the idea to make a kinda table-top version to play with friends - and for that I'm trying to get an "appropriate" amount of suitable miniature figures. (think D&D or Warhammer figures)

Having looked through the source codes (or binary, in the case of MacRogue) I have the following monster lists, though I don't yet know which version I'd like to base the "boardgame" on:

Code: [Select]
ROGUE 3.5            ROGUE 5.4.4     EPYX 1985 GRAPHICAL MACROGUE
-----------------------------------------------------------------
giant ant            rattlesnake     rattlesnake
bat                  bat             bat
centaur              centaur         centaur
dragon               dragon          dragon
floating eye         ice monster     ice monster
violet fungi         venus flytrap   venus flytrap
gnome                -               -
hobgoblin            hobgoblin       hobgoblin
invisible stalker    phantom         phantom
jackal               emu             emu
kobold               kestrel         kestral
leprechaun           leprechaun      leprechaun
mimic                xeroc           xeroc
nymph                nymph           nymph
orc                  orc             orc
purple worm          jabberwock      jabberwock
quasit               quagga          quagga
rust monster         aquator         aquator
snake                snake           slime
troll                troll           troll
umber hulk           medusa          medusa
vampire              vampire         vampire
wraith               wraith          wraith
xorn                 black unicorn   ur-vile
yeti                 yeti            yeti
zombie               zombie          zombie
-                    griffin         griffin

But reading the code, and trying to statistically infer how many monsters of a given type can reasonably be expected to occur on the screen (board) at the same time, is not a simple task. I assumed there would be players who have a lot more experience playing Rogue than I do, and for whom it would be easy to give a quick guess, whether the guess would be 3 or 5 or 10 or whatever. As I said I've only just gotten into Rogue, so I don't know what is statistically "common", to phrase it that way.

I'm a newbie in the Rogue world, sorry if I'm asking stupid questions.

elwin

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Re: For those who have played unix Rogue a lot
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2016, 01:40:43 PM »
There are a few console players around here...

Three monsters of the same kind on one level is not uncommon.  Five would be rare, I can't remember running into more than that.  If you walk into a big treasure room you might find that many all on screen at once.  6 figures should be plenty for a board game.

I'd suggest not basing a board game too closely on the mechanics of Rogue.  All the walking through corridors and resting to heal would get boring if done by a group of players throwing dice instead of being automated by the computer.
Roguelike Gallery: play Rogue online.  SSH or in browser.

hathat

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Re: For those who have played unix Rogue a lot
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2016, 02:05:58 PM »
Thanks a lot elwin, for the friendly reply  :)

I think you're right about not modelling the mechanics too closely. As long as the feel and spirit of the game is right that should be fine.
Thanks for the tip!

Krice

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Re: For those who have played unix Rogue a lot
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2016, 05:26:03 PM »
I like it a lot, and I had the idea to make a kinda table-top version to play with friends - and for that I'm trying to get an "appropriate" amount of suitable miniature figures.

Why can't you try what amount of monsters work the best? Why do you need to know how many there are in a computer game? It depends on what you are trying to do.

hathat

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Re: For those who have played unix Rogue a lot
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2016, 05:46:24 PM »
True, I could try what amount works best. It's just that I'd like to make the experience as "authentically Rogue" as possible, while still making it playable of course. So for a start, I'll go with 5 or 6 miniatures of each kind. You know, if I'm gonna buy miniatures, I'd rather buy 5 or 6 at once, instead of having to go back and add later.

Samildanach

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Re: For those who have played unix Rogue a lot
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 11:00:44 AM »
True, I could try what amount works best. It's just that I'd like to make the experience as "authentically Rogue" as possible, while still making it playable of course. So for a start, I'll go with 5 or 6 miniatures of each kind. You know, if I'm gonna buy miniatures, I'd rather buy 5 or 6 at once, instead of having to go back and add later.

Don't worry about Krice. His obnoxious trolling is part of the scenery here after so long.

I think it's an interesting idea to try and recreate the Rogue experience, though I do agree with elwin (and, if you get past the hostility, Krice) that adapting Rogue as faithfully as possible wouldn't necessarily result in an enjoyable experience.

Pertinax

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Re: For those who have played unix Rogue a lot
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2016, 07:13:08 AM »
Having looked through the source codes (or binary, in the case of MacRogue) I have the following monster lists, though I don't yet know which version I'd like to base the "boardgame" on

The difference between the earlier and later versions is due to the authors replacing D&D-specific monsters, presumably to avoid legal issues.

I'd suggest not basing a board game too closely on the mechanics of Rogue.  All the walking through corridors and resting to heal would get boring if done by a group of players throwing dice instead of being automated by the computer.

I see Rogue as an attempt to mimic the experience of the kind of megadungeon-oriented, disposable character playstyle that's been promoted by the recent OSR movement. In the absence of a human GM, it's surprising that Rogue itself is so fun when it could easily have been tedious. Compare it with Dungeon Robber, a much less fair game that's essentially an automated implementation of the random dungeon generation tables in the back of the DMG (although I find the character retirement aspect of the game intriguing). I think the lesson is, as elwin says, to tailor the gameplay to the medium. Rogue was designed to be played on a computer, while the DMG tables were designed to be incorporated into a game with a human gamemaster interpreting the results. A rules-constrained wargame/boardgame is neither, so it needs its own design.

ant

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Re: For those who have played unix Rogue a lot
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2016, 03:09:54 PM »
how has it gone?

as to your original question, other than in treasure rooms it is
pretty rare to see a large number of figures on the screen at
one time.  so my guess is that three of each would work.  3x26
is a large set!  me being rather frugal would use old 1x1 tiles
with something painted on.

if you are having multiple players though, it would seem that
you would add more monsters to balance.