Author Topic: Roguelike Archive  (Read 5964 times)

Avagart

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2015, 02:10:10 PM »
I had some concerns, but I'm going to wait for mentioned examples and snippets - maybe I just misunderstood some things.

akeley

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2015, 06:49:03 PM »
@Quendus - thanks for the shout...indeed some help might be appreciated, definitely later but also some now since spending more time with this undertaking and estimating its scope I figured that perhaps after all...

...VOLUNTEERS ARE NEEDED - to deal with the Linux/OSX side of the collection. It seems the neatest way would be for these systems to have separate directories with sub-dirs (the same like in the main Win directory) instead of cramming them all into one dir.

I`m working on the first part at the moment, the Beta+Stable directory. My rough estimate for the completion is somewhere around Xmas - maybe earlier. But that`s for Windows/DOS only. One, I don`t have experience with nor access to these other operating systems and secondly, it`s all quite time consuming (though once you get into the routine it`s not so bad. The worst "danger" actually  is getting distracted by playing the games themselves :)

Anybody feels like doing some light archive work, gimme a shout. It`s quite simple and, given the subject, fun really. Whole process goes  like this:  open the spreadsheet -  pick a game - follow the links - download the data and any immediate info - rename/add Docs/repack/ - test the end product -  distribute into appropriate directories - GOTO 10

This way the complete first part BETA+STABLE (most fun coz most playable)  would be ready much faster. I could eventually do these myself, going blind without testing...but Win is my priority at the moment.


akeley

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2015, 07:26:36 PM »
@Ancient

- re: [Demo] dir - yes, I `d imagine it`d include anything from commercial to tech demos. So far I didn`t see any but some are bound to pop up. As for low-level alphas, well, these are still alphas even if hardly playable so off to the Alpha dir they go.

- re: [Originals] dir - good point about name clashing but I just 7-zip the original archives with just the game`s name up top...so, Abura Tan for example, without any flags or version numbers. This dir looks quite cute actually and I`d imagine would be actually pretty good for those folks who dislike the structure in the main directories (you can just download this and have everything, unspoiled by my meddling :)

- re: [Proto] - ha, I get what you`re saying but true archivist must have no emotions and coldly catalogue where none would dare before. Or something :) Think of the aliens/future devs!...who knows maybe, one day they will turn that example into a super hit...(or heed the warning ;)

-re: The Great Divide - harsh indeed, but I wouldn`t mind that much...however we can`t have not-roguelikes in something called a Roguelike Archive...it could cause a cosmic-level syntax error, I fear.

-re: [  Doc] dir inside games - yes, thought about conflict with native [Doc} directories it that`s why I put two spaces at the beginning. It`s an old trick for the dirs I want to be always first...it works for this too, making it distinct enough and at the top of the game dirs so you know it`s the "alien" one. Well, it works in Windows at least....let me know if it could cause conflicts in naming under other Os-es. Using [_Doc] is another alternative, I just think [  Doc] looks a bit neater (yes, I`m that sad).

- re: [src] tag - yes, it can seem redundant if the file is inside the [Source] directory already. However, like I said earlier I`m thinking of a scenario where the inevitable jailbreak/spillage occurs and assorted archives leave the respective directories. Things happen...accidentally or on purpose (say you email somebody a bunch of files).
And source archives can be confusing - especially for noobs like me (y u no exe! grrr!)

I make it all up as I go though and things look differently in assorted stages so when it`s all done some changes might (most likely will) still occur.

@ Avagart - will upload a general snapshot of the whole dir as soon as a find bit more time....

Avagart

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2015, 08:36:55 PM »
[alpha] and [beta+stable] are parent directories? And game folders are inside them? Don't you think that put every version of such game into game folder, and then organize it into [alpha] etc. is more intuitive? Just a suggestion ;)

akeley

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2015, 09:40:13 PM »
Do you mean one big dir with all the games and then subdirectories for particular games? Like the reddit torrent sort of? That would have no structure whatsoever really, just a big ol mass of games..even with naming convention it would be tricky to navigate...

Sorry my brain working too slow atm to visualize this correctly. Maybe I misunderstood. Anyway, managed to upload this thing...my website is old and creaky but the download seems to work.

Download link:  http://arkhammanor.com/rpgbase/RLdbTEST.7z

It`s only to see the dir structure - there`s few games since I had to trim it for my silly ftp to allow me to upload. There are also my working spreadsheets in the DOC dir.

The DOS/LINUX/OSX inside the [Platform] dir are only there for now, eventually I think these should be separate (at least Linux and Mac, DOS maybe will go with other legacy platforms). And of course some changes and.or additions will probably occur...though I`m quite happy with the main structure so far.

Avagart

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2015, 11:45:43 PM »
Yeah, one big directory. Probably with subdirectories for more specific content (for example for jam entries, so 7DRLs, ProcJams, etc.). I think that would be clearer - with proper naming scheme this wouldn't be 'messy'. I'm afraid that your system which appears to be clear, in practice could be... uncomfortable.

Let me explain my concerns.

First of all, can be problems with adjustment version to directory. Which versions of DCSS are alphas, which betas, which stable? Moreover, in that case, 'separating' versions of one game by two *main* directories could be a bit confusing.

What I have in my mind:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ta6lcdxjlvbwtf7/Roguelikes.rar?dl=0

I made it on quick, only to providing example of main idea, so there are things to discuss.

Ouh, one more thing. My example is archived, but idea is for making open directory with archives, not one big archive (this is why reddit torrent (a little) sucks)

akeley

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2015, 08:48:35 PM »
I see what you mean - sure, it`s one way of doing this. I considered this method at start but chosen my structure for reasons explained previously. This mostly regards the playability - I think its beneficial to have one directory with playable games and the rest separated according to status. This way it`s much more approachable, especially to newcomers and people with little interest in source code or some early versions.

My setup is mostly influenced by the Temple`s database and its categories, and also my experiences with retro archiving scene. It`s actually a compromise between different approaches (TOSEC/Goodsets/No Intro). Having all the versions of a game in one archive is similar to Goodsets way - it has its pluses but also minuses and I think the latter outweigh the positives. This is why the No Intro sets - with their "one game one rom"  philosophy - were much more popular, since most folk are just interested in a playable version, while alphas, demos, sources and all that might be of more interest to devs and collectors.

Therefore I`ve chosen the current structure - if you just want working games, get Beta+Stable, if you`re interested in more, there are other dirs. Compromising, the [Originals] directory will be sort of similar to what you`re proposing - all the original versions in one archive, unaltered - though this will lack structure.

I`m not imposing this on anyone since like I said, I mostly build this db for myself first and then if people are interested, it`s there for the taking and also pretty easily adjustable and moldable to whatever structure somebody might wish to have on their HDD. Again I also have no qualms if anybody wants to take it, rebuild it and then release as a main torrent - if that`s the community`s wish. Or you can just start building your own version - the more the merrier :)

AquaTsar17

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2015, 03:02:08 PM »
Regarding the method used for compression, if you can include a copy of the compression program then it's largely irrelevant.

For example, if you use 7zip, and 7zip allows distribution of the executable in such packages, then just include a copy of the 7zip executable in your archive (perhaps in the root folder). That way everyone would be able to decompress the files you include in this package, regardless of whether they have a copy of the program already and regardless of whether the program is still even available (such as in the distant future).

akeley

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2015, 09:10:42 PM »
Sure, that`s the idea, though I have to read through the license still (there`s something fishy bout the un-rar element). That`s also why I couldn`t consider Winrar since it`s a commercial program. I also plan on populating the TOOLS dir with all manner of useful/required programs, though licensing issues might be a headache.

"Distant future" itself is an interesting thing, kinda fun to think about...I mean, ideally we should include all the OSs too, just in case :) Even sillier, some Raspberry Pi  schematics too. However, I believe that if somebody finds it in a really really distant future, they will just feed it to their local AI which will insta-reengineer all the necessary software, hardware and whatever else might be  necessary.

Slash

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2015, 10:03:53 PM »
This sounds interesting, good luck!

akeley

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2015, 07:38:06 PM »
Thanks /. Luck is always good, but for this I just need more spare time ;)

As it is, I crawled up to letter "F" today, which is just about a quarter of the whole Beta+Stable family (I`m @ #118 out of 417 entries, if you exclude alpha/7drl/bands in Temple db search).

These 118 entries yielded 32 traditional RLs. 9 non-trad. 19 "missing". The rest are missclassified entries, some alphas, talkies, commercial and not-Win platforms.

If the pattern persist, there`s about ~130 traditional fully playable, free roguelikes out there - a mysterious figure that was always one of my reasons for this db crawl. Not all of course are gameplay dons like the major-likes and there are some downright bizarre projects too..but still. A hundred? Is that a lot?

I suppose it is, given that you can play one good RL for years. Anyway, these are just some harmless/pointless statistics...I`m back to digging ;)


Ancient

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2015, 10:44:03 PM »
Nice! Would you consider sharing names so far on your missing list?
Michał Bieliński, reviewer for Temple of the Roguelike

akeley

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2015, 10:09:26 PM »
Not all of them are "missing" as such - it`s just catch-all criteria for when I was unsure what`s up. Some may not have been released at all.


Artisan
Battlement
Berserk!
Beyond
Bronze and Faith
Caverns of Underkeep
Choose
Claw and Sword
Cryptic Light
Dawn of the Dead Roguelike III
Dead By Zombie
Deep
Downfall
Dragon
Dungeon-Themed Starvation Simulator!
DungeonS
Exalt
EZ-Rogue

http://arkhammanor.com/rpgbase/RLdbMISSING.7z - here`s my doc, with links and some more explanation.

Shout if you know about any of these, files or info are most appreciated.

Ancient

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2015, 05:37:56 AM »
Artisan - Had one tech-demo'y release and perished. One of those release early, fail early. Had a page but someone removed it instead of replacing with archive. The game shipped as Windows binary with some Python libs. I have the thing available on my HDD.

Berserk! - Website has some kind of a problem. I will be overhauling RogueBasin article. See: http://forum.chaosforge.org/index.php/topic,7334.0.html and when it is fixed http://berserk.chaosforge.org. However, nothing prevents you from pulling the code from repository and compiling it. Use: https://svn.code.sf.net/p/berserkrl/code/ as SVN repository address.

Beyond - As far as I remember this was never released, although it had quite some discussion devoted to it on rgrd. The engine it was running on (H-World) is more of interest, as it featured working demo.

Deep - Fully playable roguelike, alhough bit buggy and ridiculously easy due to broken balance. I once reviewed it but Slash seems to have taken the review down. Got Deep 1.8 on disk, which is not very much different from latest release. Mignt work on 32 bit Windows.

Claw and Sword - Source only distribution. Although makefile is prepared for some kind of Linux it should compile for Windows without problems. Unfortunately this was the case ten years ago. Today you wil have to alter the source to make modern compiler take it up. I have those changes applied if you wish (for GCC 5.2.0).
Michał Bieliński, reviewer for Temple of the Roguelike

akeley

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Re: Roguelike Archive
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2015, 09:35:02 PM »
Grand, having a veteran on board is priceless.

At the moment it`s all about Windows so I`m interested in .exe`s and/or sources for this platform. Haven`t got a clue about compiling and any such sorcery so if you could sort that out it`d be great help.

With Berserk!, it was an early note when I was still thinking of doing Linux (and OSX) simultaneously with Win...abandoned that idea for now :) It`ll have to be a separate project...hopefully by, or with help of, people who know these platforms - otherwise it`s just stumbling in the dark.

I`ll add your notes to the db and as for files - please upload somewhere or keep`em safe for now and wait till I crawl to the end of the section and we have more MIAs.

Already got two more:
Exalt
EZ- Rogue