Author Topic: Dungeon generator protoype  (Read 4793 times)

Gix

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Dungeon generator protoype
« on: December 18, 2014, 04:14:50 PM »
Hello,

Given its presentation, the purists might not call this a rogue-like but my team and I are working on an ambitious first-person rogue-like.

After a year of development, the dungeon generator is starting to take shape.  Internally, we're very excited so I figured we'd share.  Here's what we've got so far:














mushroom patch

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2014, 06:20:23 PM »
Very nice looking. Is this based on a first person shooter engine?

Gix

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2014, 09:09:02 PM »
This is being accomplished with the Unity engine and, while it's in first-person, we hope that it won't be perceived as a shooter (not that this is what you were implying).

Or goal is to build a rogue-like where you're very much in the shoes of your character while keeping the combat at a much slower pace.

Paul Jeffries

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2014, 11:25:08 PM »
Looks very nice.  The shafts of light in particular add a lot of atmosphere.  Are the meshes being generated fully procedurally or are they being assembled out of pre-made chunks?

LindaJeanne

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2014, 01:44:17 AM »
Very nice!

Gix

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2014, 03:30:07 AM »
Looks very nice.  The shafts of light in particular add a lot of atmosphere.  Are the meshes being generated fully procedurally or are they being assembled out of pre-made chunks?
We craft multiple (small) custom-built meshes that are procedurally laid out which are, then, stitched together into larger chunks.  It's an elaborate tile system (in the sense that there can be multiple pieces per tile) that creates each room.  If we were to generate two flat walls, they would look quite different from one another.

We're trying to push for as much procedurally generated content as possible.

TheCreator

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2014, 07:12:04 AM »
Given its presentation, the purists might not call this a rogue-like

Oh, why not? Everything is a roguelike now :).
Fame (Untitled) - my game. Everything is a roguelike.

Krice

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2014, 03:15:29 PM »
Funny, it looks a lot like I've imagined my RL project Kaduria would look if it was 3D. Even this is not a roguelike it's interesting. This kind of 3D procedural generation must be quite complex to code.

Zireael

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2014, 03:33:59 PM »
Gix, don't mind the troll. I love the screenies. Anywhere I could find a beta and give you guys some feedback?

Gix

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2014, 03:53:21 PM »
Given its presentation, the purists might not call this a rogue-like

Oh, why not? Everything is a roguelike now :).
It's a pet-peeve of mine when people mislabel things; particularly in the context of video games.  I find that RPGs and rogue-likes seem to have suffered the most in this regard where:
- If you kill things and gain character levels, it's considered to be an RPG  ::)
- If it's got permanent death and a random playing area, it's a rogue-like  :'(

I believe that the people who use these skin-deep definitions to describe the genre kind of miss the point.  They have every right to do so and (technically speaking) they're not wrong.  They're true but inaccurate.  I just (strongly) feel it's a disservice.

On the other side of the coin, Rogue-likes have often been described as top-down grid-turn-based games and they kind of need to be for them to have that strategic "last turn might be your last" appeal...  which I agree and is why I put the disclaimer.  We're actually putting a lot of thought into keeping that feeling without using grids or turn-based game-play.

Funny, it looks a lot like I've imagined my RL project Kaduria would look if it was 3D. Even this is not a roguelike it's interesting. This kind of 3D procedural generation must be quite complex to code.
It's certainly complicated from a technical and art standpoint.  Because of its perspective, you have to account for performance when rendering a horizon.  On the art side, you have to figure out how to draw the ceiling in interesting ways and do things like procedural lighting.  You have things like light shafts that are dictated by points of interests (treasure chests, boss monsters, etc) which, in turn, influence other aspects of the environment such as flora.

I think the most complicated thing there was to code was the pathing; making sure that the generator knew where the player could and couldn't go in 3D space and build ramps where it needed them.  It's really important for numerous things, like figuring out where the player is most likely to be looking and where to lay traps.

Gix, don't mind the troll. I love the screenies. Anywhere I could find a beta and give you guys some feedback?
The project is in early prototyping phase and we're slowly transitioning to production for a pre-alpha.  I want to at least incorporate traps in the generator before letting anyone delve in because, otherwise, there wouldn't be anything to do.  Monsters can spawn but the AI and animations aren't in yet; we got another prototype for that.

mushroom patch

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2014, 03:56:44 PM »
I just want to defend Krice's right to express his fantasies about video games he'll write someday. People who dare to dream deserve our respect.

I too envision a future version of mushroom patch simulator (MPS) with 3D, procedurally generated graphics based on a genetic algorithm. To keep it simple, I mine data from the genome of a mushroom (Cortinarius rubellus to be precise) and generate content from its gene sequences. Of course, I don't think a flat screen could adequately express my vision. I imagine a future technology in which the player sits inside a large ball, say 8 feet in diameter, wearing a helmet fit with projectors that beam the visual game content onto the walls of the enclosing ball. By tracking the movements of the player's head, a realistic, totally immersive 3D perspective can be simulated.

For now, I don't think there's much point in using 3D graphics, but at some future date when the technology I describe is commonplace and the world is ready, then perhaps I will realize my true vision of MPS (to the rapturous praise of all).

Gix

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2014, 03:13:36 AM »
For now, I don't think there's much point in using 3D graphics, but at some future date when the technology I describe is commonplace and the world is ready, then perhaps I will realize my true vision of MPS (to the rapturous praise of all).
What you're describing is stereoscopy.  As to whenever or not there's a point in using a 3D engine; it's just another tool of expression like text, ASCII graphics and sprites.  I'm a believer of "show, don't tell" so my team and I are always looking at ways to increase visual fidelity... not to mention that the entire team (as we are now) knows how to do 3D video game art.

Pickledtezcat

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2014, 12:13:54 PM »
It looks very interesting.
I got some good ideas for my own project just by looking at the screenshots.

I'm also making a 3d graphical version of a roguelike, pretty much at the far end of the spectrum of roguelikeness, i.e. not very roguelike. :)
I think it's interesting to follow the arguments about what is or isn't a roguelike, it's similar in a way to other genre defining arguments, like what makes a detective story or a horror film.
Ultimately though, I think that genre conventions can be useful, but they can also be too constrictive, especially when it comes to technical considerations. In 50 years time do we still expect that roguelikes should be restricted to ascii graphics? And if we can accept roguelikes mutating to include 3d graphics engines, can we also agree that with a change in representation we might need to accept a change in gameplay? I really can't imagine that turn based gameplay is going to work very well in a first person roguelike... Perhaps at some point it requires a new break away genre to be formed, rather than another disruptive subgenre.

Anyway, on to some more useful commentary:
The map layout is good, good connectivity and the multi level sections are great.
I like the depth of field filter, though I hope it doesn't interfere with gameplay. Sometimes these kind of visual enhancements look fine for showcasing level design but don't work once you get in to gameplay.
I noticed a bit of repetition of elements in some of the smaller corridors, especially picture number 3. Do you have a way of dealing with that?

When are you thinking of making a gameplay demo? I'd suggest making that a priority. Even a reduced function demo where you run around and engage in a little combat with some simple monsters will get people to engage with the game and give you some useful feedback.
A blog about my 3d Roguelike: http://pickleddevblog.blogspot.kr/

Paul Jeffries

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2014, 04:54:08 PM »
We're actually putting a lot of thought into keeping that feeling without using grids or turn-based game-play.

A common mistake when trying to do this is to simply make a game real-time but very slow-paced, which I think rather misses the point.  Turn-based roguelikes allow you to take half an hour deliberating per turn if you like, or you can keep hitting the keys and be the other side of the level in a couple of seconds - they are as slow- or as fast-paced as you want them to be at that moment in time.  Roguelikes can be killed stone-dead by an enforced slow pace (for example, those with too-slow animations).

To explain an idiosyncrasy of this forum: Krice is perpetually making posts, whatever the topic may be, about how his never-seen-but-always-talked-about twenty-year project is going to do everything much better than everything else that has ever been made.  In retaliation, Mushroom Patch has started making parody posts in the same style.  Taking anything either one of them says seriously is a waste of time.

mushroom patch

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Re: Dungeon generator protoype
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2014, 04:14:13 PM »
To explain an idiosyncrasy of this forum: Krice is perpetually making posts, whatever the topic may be, about how his never-seen-but-always-talked-about twenty-year project is going to do everything much better than everything else that has ever been made.  In retaliation, Mushroom Patch has started making parody posts in the same style.  Taking anything either one of them says seriously is a waste of time.

We'll see who's idiosyncratic when mushroom patch simulator (MPS) is released. Until then, I have the persistence and conviction to endure the slings and arrows of critics. Probably the most persistence and conviction of any artist the world has seen.