Author Topic: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?  (Read 10996 times)

TheCreator

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2013, 07:45:47 AM »
EDIT: Especially if it said, "If I succeed I'll release the source to all..."

Do you expect to find something special in the source or just want to make sure somebody will continue the development?
Fame (Untitled) - my game. Everything is a roguelike.

Jo

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2013, 08:23:13 AM »
The hope that someone would continue if the developer did not.

But I think it's in a special language, which might sorta be a hindrance to another person developing.
Klingon RL, Gunfist 7DRL, Cardlike 7DRL, Cardlike: Quest for the Goat Horn, Sun Crusher 7DRL, The Littlest Princess 7DRL and dozens of board and card games.

TheCreator

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2013, 08:28:02 AM »
But I think it's in a special language, which might sorta be a hindrance to another person developing.

Yeah. I used to work in a company which has developed it's own scripting language and it was pretty cool, but I'd never go using such a language in my game knowing that the main developer of the language has dropped the project and there's basically no support for it.
Fame (Untitled) - my game. Everything is a roguelike.

chooseusername

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2013, 02:16:01 AM »
Hmmm....

I betcha Incursion could get $5-$10k minimum on kickstarter...

EDIT: Especially if it said, "If I succeed I'll release the source to all..."
I bet you that there will never be such a kickstarter.  I bet you we will never see the source to Incursion.  I bet you that you take what you get when it comes to games you got for free in the first place, because you probably got it worse with some game you bought.

Zireael

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2013, 07:54:34 AM »
Hmmm....

I betcha Incursion could get $5-$10k minimum on kickstarter...

EDIT: Especially if it said, "If I succeed I'll release the source to all..."
I bet you that there will never be such a kickstarter.  I bet you we will never see the source to Incursion.  I bet you that you take what you get when it comes to games you got for free in the first place, because you probably got it worse with some game you bought.

I am afraid that you're right.

King Ink

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2013, 03:03:25 PM »
None. There were no significant achievements in the genre since ADOM.

very interesting I tend to agree (with some cavets; Brogue but it seems to be a distilation and perfection more than advancement)
but would like to hear your arguments.

TheCreator

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2013, 05:51:39 AM »
None. There were no significant achievements in the genre since ADOM.

very interesting I tend to agree (with some cavets; Brogue but it seems to be a distilation and perfection more than advancement)
but would like to hear your arguments.

I'm afraid this is not possible. If one thinks there were any achievements, he can just list it. But in the opposite case the only thing to do is giving counterarguments. I just play game by game only to conclude it's another clone of Rogue with nice visuals, UI improvements and a Facebook button. Dwarf Fortress is one of the few truly innovative games, but it has little to do with roguelikes.
Fame (Untitled) - my game. Everything is a roguelike.

Jo

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2013, 11:07:33 AM »
None. There were no significant achievements in the genre since ADOM.

very interesting I tend to agree (with some cavets; Brogue but it seems to be a distilation and perfection more than advancement)
but would like to hear your arguments.

I'm afraid this is not possible. If one thinks there were any achievements, he can just list it. But in the opposite case the only thing to do is giving counterarguments. I just play game by game only to conclude it's another clone of Rogue with nice visuals, UI improvements and a Facebook button. Dwarf Fortress is one of the few truly innovative games, but it has little to do with roguelikes.

I'm not sure how anyone could write this paragraph and actually have kept up with the genre.

Edit: Ah shit. TROLLED. Lol, nice one.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 11:10:32 AM by Jo »
Klingon RL, Gunfist 7DRL, Cardlike 7DRL, Cardlike: Quest for the Goat Horn, Sun Crusher 7DRL, The Littlest Princess 7DRL and dozens of board and card games.

Vanguard

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2013, 07:50:01 PM »
very interesting I tend to agree (with some cavets; Brogue but it seems to be a distilation and perfection more than advancement)
but would like to hear your arguments.

Perfection is advancement.  Refining existing concepts is as important as (imo more important than) creating new ones.

King Ink

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2013, 09:45:22 PM »
very interesting I tend to agree (with some cavets; Brogue but it seems to be a distilation and perfection more than advancement)
but would like to hear your arguments.

Perfection is advancement.  Refining existing concepts is as important as (imo more important than) creating new ones.

It of course is semantic and most likely an illusion of categories.
-I am defining refinement as the whittling down to essentials and advancement as innovation.
A sufficiently "advanced" rogue-style game just would not be recognizable as a rogue-like.
Dwarf-fortress and FTL come to mind both make it to my to ten list neither is really linked to rogue/larn/hack/omega.
The innovations set them outside the genre.
Perhaps Rogue-like is a Genre with a ceiling.

making a musical analogy blue grass with tubas, thermins and  trap drums might be cool as hell
but at some point it just is not bluegrass.

DaBeowulf

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2013, 11:54:49 PM »
I also mourn the "shelved" message for Incursion greatly. It is my personal favourite. I would also argue here is where most of your/the significant achievements (you do not see) have been made.

And Cataclysm has been mentioned in here rightfully as well. It is great!

I will add UnRealWorld _not_ just because I can.

O_o Crawl is proclaimed major here already. Which does read DCSS to me (as well).

I must say I find this major, not yet major distinction made here pretty silly, though, much like if people get caught up
in "it's (not) a roguelike because"... lol, in the end my opinion is what counts here for me.

Zireael

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2013, 09:24:12 AM »
I also mourn the "shelved" message for Incursion greatly. It is my personal favourite. I would also argue here is where most of your/the significant achievements (you do not see) have been made.

Have you considered trying out/contributing to Veins of the Earth? We're trying to recreate the goodness that is Incursion in an easily moddable engine and in an open source way...

Amnekian

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2013, 04:41:42 PM »
Have you considered trying out/contributing to Veins of the Earth? We're trying to recreate the goodness that is Incursion in an easily moddable engine and in an open source way...

Never played Veins of the Earth but I got curious on how can one contribute to it?

Zireael

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2013, 07:34:20 PM »
Have you considered trying out/contributing to Veins of the Earth? We're trying to recreate the goodness that is Incursion in an easily moddable engine and in an open source way...

Never played Veins of the Earth but I got curious on how can one contribute to it?

1) We need some tiles - I'm not much of an artist and I think around 10 monsters are still missing tiles.
2) There are issues listed here, if you know some Lua, you could help us with fixing them (by sending pull requests via git or just posting your patches to the feedback thread)
3) Some of the game's inner workings are explained in here so that you can contribute new items/spells/egos/whatever

tootboot

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Re: What "not-major-roguelike" do you think it should be considered "major"?
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2014, 04:37:12 AM »
Not much comes to mind, to me a 'major' roguelike is something that has lasting endurance and gameplay over a long period of time.  Dwarf Fortress definitely qualifies in that sense but with all the usual questions about whether it qualifies as a roguelike. 

Maybe give Sil or Brogue another 2-3 years in the pot and they might be major roguelikes.