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The Roguelike World => Events and News => Topic started by: Jo on December 23, 2012, 01:13:46 AM

Title: The Year's Most Popular (2012) - By Category
Post by: Jo on December 23, 2012, 01:13:46 AM
  Doull's Annual Roguelike of the Year poll is up and running here:
http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com/

  Since you can vote for multiple games you like, the numbers can be useful to split games into categories. You can't do, like, best interface or something like that, but you can do the following.

Most Popular:
-Overall
-Big Game (ToME, ADOM)
-Medium Game (Brogue, Doom)
-Small Game (7DRL's and the like)
-Primarily Ascii Game
-Hybrid Game Play (FTL, Wrath of the Lamb, DF)
-Classic Sci Fi (prime, prospector)
-Post Apocalyptic Sci Fi (unreal, cataclysm, others)
-Sex Based 'game' (noxico, seduction quest, are there more?)
-Bandlike (there are a lot!)
-Hacklikes (fewer, but some interesting ones)
-Biggest Disappointment (Diablo III wins. Fuck that game.)
-Best New Game (First released this year)
-Best New Fork (Forkes released this year, like Unbrogue, some nethack ones, I may need suggestions on this one)

Any other ideas? I'll break down the numbers when the poll is over and post it here and we can all bicker over the results and my categorization ("zomg! DCSS is obviously an Ascii only game, the tiles are for noobs! And FTL isn't even a roguelike you traitor!")

I'll reduce the categories to just a couple of interesting ones, once the results are in and we can see the different subgroups more clearly.

EDIT: I planned on doing this last year, but sorta lost steam. That won't happen this year.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Jo on December 30, 2012, 12:56:25 PM
Okay. The poll as concluded. Here are some top lists for you!

OVERALL MOST POPULAR 20
Tales of Maj'Eyal (ToME)
1659
ADOM                                    
1445
ADOM II (formerly JADE)          
730
Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup  
687
Dwarf Fortress                        
605
FTL                                          
454
UnReal World                          
442
DoomRL: Doom, the Roguelike
393
Brogue                                    
349
Dungeons of Dredmor              
280
Sword of the Stars: The Pit      
180
Torchlight 2                              
175
Cataclysm                           
173
The Binding of Isaac                   
150
Caves of Qud                           
138
X@COM                                   
135
TomeNET                                   
133
Sil                                           
130
Diablo III                                     
95
Angband                                     
91

It was a tight race, but ToME4 mustered it's base and pulled it out. The big surprise here was ADOM II pulling in 3rd. Those ADOM guys made a good show. Note last year ADOM wasn't even on the list, and here it is 2nd. Look for ADOM to sweep next year, as development slows down on ToME and ADOM really picks up. [edit: DarkGod has no intent of slowing down! See below...]

The rest of the top 20 are the usual suspects, with some newcomers like FTL, The Pit, Torchlight, Diablo III and TomeNet. I'm pretty sure X@Com scored well last year, my memory is faded, good to see it in the top 20.


MOST POPULAR 5 MONSTER GAMEs
(Huge games, long, complex)
-It's the same as above. All the top 5 games are massive, or at least meant to be massive. No coffee breaks in the top 5 this year.


MOST POPULAR NOT MONSTER GAMES
(games not looking to be nethack, or even close to it)
FTL                                               
454
DoomRL: Doom, the Roguelike       
393
Brogue                                       
349
The Binding of Isaac                       
150
X@COM                                       
135

  A good mix of games in this category. Some nice hybrids in there, the new classic, a past winner and the great (but hard to play) X@COM.

MOST POPULAR 7DRL (After so much time since the 7DRL competition, what games have maintained their popularity, or at least are still memorable some 9 months later? This is different than the competition winners.)
Cogmind                 
70
Zaga-33                 
33
HyperRogue III      
23
I rule, you rule, we all rule old-school Hyrule   
19
SUN CRUSHER!!!    
19

*AliensRL 72 [Has expanded a lot since the original 7DRL version, so I didn't include it]

Those are some pretty sweet games on that list. Mine is on there, but I think we can assume that it was my post on facebook of VOTE FOR ME that got it so many votes. Many great ones just missed the cut. Like Drakefire Chasm.

MOST POPULAR ASCII ONLY
ADOM                                    
1445
ADOM II (formerly JADE)          
730
Brogue  [Their are tiles out there, but are they included in the game yet?]           
349  
Cataclysm   
173
Caves of Qud   
138
X@COM  [Is this ascii only? Close enough I say.]        
135  
Sil                   
130

TOP HYBRIDS OR REAL TIME (excluding Diablo, it has its own list)
FTL                             
454
Torchlight 2             
175
The Binding of Isaac     
150
Diablo III (h8)
95
Desktop Dungeons
83
Red Rogue
55
Spelunky (2 versions)
52
Din's Curse
39
Triangle Wizard
37
Zaga-33 (gets 33 votes? Is it hybrid?)
33
Teleglitch
28
Weird Worlds
22

TOP CLASSIC SCI FI
DoomRL: Doom, the Roguelike     
393
Sword of the Stars: The Pit     
180
X@COM                                     
135
AliensRL                                       
72
Cogmind                                       
70

TOP POST APOCALYPTIC AND/OR SURVIVAL GAME
UnReal World   
442
Cataclysm   
173
Caves of Qud   
138
Rogue Survivor
38

TOP HORROR (This is very hard to define...)
AliensRL   
72
Infra Arcana   
52
Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones   
28

TOP SHOOTER
The Binding of Isaac   
150
Triangle Wizard   
37
Teleglitch   
28


BEST SEX GAME
  There were only 2. Noxico and Seduction quest. Do your own research on that.

*BAND [if you aren't counting ToME and Diablo]
Sil                
130
Angband             
91
FAangband     
25
NPPAngband     
21
Halls of Mist
20
Quickband       
9

HACKLIKES
UnNetHack   
37
NetHack-De   
33
PRIME              
11

BIGGEST DISAPPOINTMENT OF THE YEAR

-Diablo III. I curse at thee!

TOP NEW GAME  (First release was this year)
FTL                                           
454
Sword of the Stars: The Pit   
180
Torchlight 2                           
175
Sil   [Released this year, right?]                                        
130
Diablo III                                     
95
Cogmind                                     
70

TOP FORK
Sil                    
130
UnNetHack   
37
NetHack-De   
33
UnBrogue           
26
NPPAngband   
21

BIGGEST SURPRISE
-My biggest surprise were the games that just didn't do well. Like Prime, Infra Arcana, Slimy Lich Mummy and others. There are some high quality games on there that just didn't get the attention they deserved. It's okay. It's just a poll. Don't get down.


TOP COMMERCIAL GAMES
(As requested by Darren Grey)
FTL
454
Unreal World
442
Dungeons of Dredmore
280
Sword of the Stars: The Pit
180
Torchlight 2
175
The Binding of Isaac
150
Diablo III
95
Desktop Dungeons
83
Spelunky XBLA
52
Din's Curse
39

*Note: Is ADOM now a commercial game? It's not been released commercially, but it's definitely a money maker now.

So there it is. Feel free to correct me if I made a mistake, I'll fix it.

EDIT: Had trouble with formatting, couldn't get rid of all the spaces between games while also lining up the numbers. Sorry if this post is too long due to that.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Kyzrati on December 30, 2012, 01:26:19 PM
Thanks for doing this Jo, it's nice to finally see an organized breakdown rather than that massive list of nearly 300 games. Of course I'm doubly happy to see that both my games are all over the place. That was no doubt in part because I did make sure my players knew about the poll, though it would seem like having the players in the first place is necessary to get results in that department, so the poll is still meaningful overall--I noticed that quite a few other games had similar calls for votes in their own outlets, so I suppose many are on the same playing field.

MOST POPULAR ASCII ONLY
Brogue           349  [Their are tiles out there, but are they included in the game yet?]
Cataclysm   173
Caves of Qud   138
X@COM           135  [Is this ascii only? Close enough I say.]
Sil                   130
The only non-ASCII characters in X@COM are the unit triangles/circles, since I needed an easily readable way to display facing in a single glyph.

Regarding past polls for comparison, I noticed a Korean site that has a full rundown of the poll in all previous years, though they jumped the gun and put this year's results up more than a day ago, so they're not 100% accurate. Check it out here (http://tolkien.tistory.com/343). (EDIT: They've since fixed their numbers.) X@COM did get more votes than last year (whew :D, popularity going *down* might mean I was doing something wrong), but was pushed down a bit due to the increase in popular commercial games this year. At least everyone in the top 18 beat Diablo III (interestingly steep drop after that, actually), now why aren't we all millionaires ;p
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: DarkGod on December 30, 2012, 01:36:00 PM
Err Jo:
Quote
Look for ADOM to sweep next year, as development slows down on ToME and ADOM really picks up.

I have about no wish to slow down :)
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Jo on December 30, 2012, 01:48:22 PM
Err Jo:
Quote
Look for ADOM to sweep next year, as development slows down on ToME and ADOM really picks up.

I have about no wish to slow down :)

  Oh! HAHA! I thought after releasing 1.0 you were going to do something else. My bad.

  ToME for the 4-peat!
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Jo on December 30, 2012, 01:59:23 PM
@Kyzrati - That's a good website. Lots of links to games and a good graphic of the poll results. Too bad I can't read most of it. Still it's obviously well done.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Kyzrati on December 30, 2012, 02:10:34 PM
Yeah, I just browsed it through google translator, which helped... a little.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Darren Grey on December 30, 2012, 04:50:00 PM
A very nicely put together list, Jo!  Shouldn't ADOM and ADOM II dominate the ASCII only section though?

To line things up
Code: [Select]
use
the
code
tags.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Jo on December 30, 2012, 04:53:26 PM
While you were posting I fiddled with it a little.

And yes absolutely ADOM should dominate the ASCII only, for now...:-)

I'll change it.

EDIT: And if anyone wants a cleaned up excel file with everything, one that you can actually sort, lemme know and I'll send it out.

EDIT2: I added some categories and expanded some others. Shooter and Horror were added in order to throw some love out to Infra Arcana and Triangle Wizard.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Irinka on December 30, 2012, 05:37:35 PM
Nice list:)
I must try to play Sun Crusher again - when I tried it out the first time, it crashed, the second - it froze my computer... so I did not try it again. And here it is in top 5! Must be a good game if 19 people still remembered it after 7DRL competition... Shame Drakefire Chasm did not get many votes, I really enjoyed it.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: getter77 on December 30, 2012, 07:38:40 PM
Spiffy assortment!  I reckon Infra Arcana would've done better if not for the break in dev pace, even if it came back with all manner of goodies, as that probably had it drop off some folks radar.  Somewhat similarly, I expect PRIME to have a nice impact in 2013 as much of it has been done in the shadows of the Incubator and whatnot.

In way the event functions as sort of a mini-ARRP, as it is surely a good portend if a given game just so happens to have a release right around the time of polling.   8)
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Jo on December 30, 2012, 08:00:16 PM
  About Sun Crusher!!! It was made with the Gamemaker program, which usually creates very stable .exe's. Sorry about the crash, that's the first I've heard of it. As far as the game play there wasn't too much depth. More arcade than Roguelike really. I think it was kinda fun but there are quite a few sharp edges. Don't let the vote counts fool you, it's not even close to being on the same level as Drakefire or Cogmind or those others.

  With some tweaks I think the engine has promise though, and I am thinking of basing my next 7DRL on it. It has a turnbased strategy game style turn sequence (move and shoot, pass the turn, repeat) and revolving planets. So I guess that's sort of original.

  Here is a play through:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=782O8LFoF9w
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: NON on December 30, 2012, 11:32:24 PM
Spiffy assortment!  I reckon Infra Arcana would've done better if not for the break in dev pace, even if it came back with all manner of goodies, as that probably had it drop off some folks radar.
This was a slow year for IA indeed. There's some really ambitious things planned/already implemented though, which will be released sometime during 2013.

Just look at this ongoing changelog (these things are already implemented), it's friggin huge. I'd say it's already bigger than two or three older releases combined :)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hK73-apyw5XbK9QjKyCMIj_w12RFxfPlmv0ipL4qAL0 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hK73-apyw5XbK9QjKyCMIj_w12RFxfPlmv0ipL4qAL0/edit)
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: getter77 on December 31, 2012, 12:55:18 AM
Fantastic!   8)
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Irinka on December 31, 2012, 04:51:27 PM
  About Sun Crusher!!! It was made with the Gamemaker program, which usually creates very stable .exe's. Sorry about the crash, that's the first I've heard of it. As far as the game play there wasn't too much depth. More arcade than Roguelike really. I think it was kinda fun but there are quite a few sharp edges. Don't let the vote counts fool you, it's not even close to being on the same level as Drakefire or Cogmind or those others.

  With some tweaks I think the engine has promise though, and I am thinking of basing my next 7DRL on it. It has a turnbased strategy game style turn sequence (move and shoot, pass the turn, repeat) and revolving planets. So I guess that's sort of original.

  Here is a play through:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=782O8LFoF9w

Thank you for the link:) It definitely looks different and interesting.
Also, I really love the name- it sounds so... enthusiastic ;)

Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Jo on January 01, 2013, 01:54:02 AM
Ha! Thanks. That was the point. I love names. I spend hours trying to think of a good name when I start up a new game, it's almost pathological.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Darren Grey on January 02, 2013, 11:23:14 AM
Jo, can you put your awesome Excel sheet online?  Or e-mail it to me?  (darrenjohngrey at the .com hotmail domain)

Also, I don't get why you exclude Diablo III from the real-time section, though I think it could be expanded to top 10 hybrids since there are so many.  Also also, you could maybe do a list of top commercial (FTL, UnReal World, Dredmor, Torchlight, etc).
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Jo on January 02, 2013, 06:41:32 PM
  Okay...I'll stop my Diablo hate.

Here is that excel file:

  http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/382458/RLotY2012-xlsx.html

I'll update the lists now.

EDIT: I listed Sword of the Stars: The Pit as a commercial game, but it was just a free alpha demo right? It's definitely part of a commercial project though, so I put it in the commercial section.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Kornel Kisielewicz on January 03, 2013, 06:24:38 AM
Great breakup. And I can't help to notice the fact that AliensRL in this list got some unfair positive bias :). Indeed I feel it's a bit underrated, but I truly hope this will change once 0.8.4 hits the internets ^_^.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: britzl on January 03, 2013, 07:06:56 AM
Thanks! Great idea to split votes by category. As a developer of a mobile roguelike I would have liked to see a category like "best smartphone roguelike" or something like that.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: bhaak on January 03, 2013, 11:31:39 AM
I thank everybody for voting for UnNetHack and NetHack-De and gladly accept the trophy for best and second-best hacklike. ;D
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: half on January 03, 2013, 12:08:32 PM
Yes, Sil was released in 2012.

It is difficult to work out the release dates for some of the others. For example, Sword of the Stars: the Pit is actually just an alpha demo rather than a released game at all and should probably count as a new game next year rather than this year -- but kudos to it for getting so many votes while not even released!
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Evropi on January 03, 2013, 03:17:44 PM
Excel! Freedom (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) hater...

Just chiming in to say that Hydra Slayer is a hybrid roguelike/puzzle game. Please list it as such. Also, there is a section missing from the Original Post (OP)... you need to mention the Overall winner!
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Darren Grey on January 03, 2013, 03:44:00 PM
Hydra Slayer has nothing hybrid about it.  It uses special mechanics in place of usual random rolls in combat, but it really doesn't have any sort of puzzley feel to it.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Darren Grey on January 04, 2013, 09:42:38 AM
By the way Jo, this screws up a certain category a little, but ADOM (and by extension ADOM II) is normally considered to belong to the Hacklike branch of roguelikes.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: bhaak on January 04, 2013, 02:13:15 PM
By the way Jo, this screws up a certain category a little, but ADOM (and by extension ADOM II) is normally considered to belong to the Hacklike branch of roguelikes.

But then you'd also need to put DCSS in that category. I guess the category is short for "hacklikes that aren't ashamed of their NetHack ancestry" and then it is appropriately filled.

bhaak, desperately trying to keep the top spot ;)
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Darren Grey on January 04, 2013, 02:19:42 PM
Heh, fair enough, we'll let you keep that spot  :)  With its latest developments ADOM is getting even less hacklike, and going with the controlled design direction that DCSS, ToME and Brogue have championed.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Jo on January 04, 2013, 04:37:08 PM
Thanks! Great idea to split votes by category. As a developer of a mobile roguelike I would have liked to see a category like "best smartphone roguelike" or something like that.

Yes we definitely need a "Best Mobile (primarily)"

I'm not sure I can tell which ones are mobile focused though...I'll try, but check it and tell me what I screwed up.

EDIT: Scratch that, I'm not up at all on the mobiles. The only one I know of is Dweller. That one is mobile focused, right? Anyone that wants to put together a top 5, I'll include it in the master list.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Jo on January 04, 2013, 04:43:50 PM
Great breakup. And I can't help to notice the fact that AliensRL in this list got some unfair positive bias :). Indeed I feel it's a bit underrated, but I truly hope this will change once 0.8.4 hits the internets ^_^.

Unfair positive bias? Why whatever do you mean? You mean because I rate it in my top 5?  ;)

Lol, that's not saying much though. I really liked Random Realms too, and that one isn't high on many lists. One of my other favorites underperformed as well, PRIME. I expect it to pick up more next year. Brogue and SIL did well, those ones round out my top 5.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Mikko Lehtinen on January 04, 2013, 08:10:47 PM
Hey, my Halls of Mist is a *band, too!

Updated *bands:

*BAND [if you aren't counting ToME and Diablo]
Sil               
130
Angband             
91
FAangband     
25
NPPAngband     
21
Halls of Mist
20
Quickband       
9

It's a close fight for the third most popular *band!
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Z on January 04, 2013, 08:50:34 PM
HyperRogue III is a game based on a 7DRL, rather than 7DRL :)

As the designer, I consider Hydra Slayer a puzzle roguelike myself, because it is based on a mathematical puzzle. Keith Burgun would not probably call it a puzzle, though, since puzzle has a single correct answer, according to his definition, and Hydra Slayer allows many valid approaches. Anyway, who cares?

Darren, why is ADOM getting less hacklike with its latest developments?
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Jo on January 04, 2013, 10:54:12 PM
Hey, my Halls of Mist is a *band, too!



Fixed it, sorry for the omission.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Jo on January 04, 2013, 10:58:00 PM
HyperRogue III is a game based on a 7DRL, rather than 7DRL :)

Darren, why is ADOM getting less hacklike with its latest developments?


Is it a 7DRL that was later expanded? I think I'd still count that.

As for the ADOM and Hack relationship, is ADOM based on Nethack/Hack code? That's kinda how I was envisioning Hacklikes and *Bands. As spin offs using a lot of the same code.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Darren Grey on January 04, 2013, 11:22:32 PM
Hacklike used to mean as opposed to the *Band tree.  ADOM was definitely part of the Hack branch since it was directly inspired by Hack and NetHack.

The recent changes move it away from NetHack I think - more emphasis on balance, discussion of interface streamlining, removing spoiler-based gameplay, etc.  A lot of the tropes I associate with NetHack anyway  ;)
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: tootboot on January 05, 2013, 04:20:19 AM
As for the ADOM and Hack relationship, is ADOM based on Nethack/Hack code?

I've seen someone allege as much once.
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Ancient on January 05, 2013, 11:47:29 AM
The recent changes move it away from NetHack I think - more emphasis on balance, discussion of interface streamlining, removing spoiler-based gameplay, etc.  A lot of the tropes I associate with NetHack anyway  ;)

I find that funny. NetHack is much easier game than ADOM and if it is unbalanced then it must be in player's favor. Spoiler-based gameplay fits NetHack well but it applies somewhat less to hacklikes as a whole.

In my opinion the most important trope to hacklikes is breadth of game element interactions. Multiple-use items are a staple. Reading food, eating weapons, jewelry and armor, throwing gems, drinking corpses ... Very unusual applications of objects, quirky interactions between game elements are the core thing here. Spoiler-based gameplay is a minor item. Kludgey interface is entirely optional!
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: bhaak on January 05, 2013, 05:14:46 PM
In my opinion the most important trope to hacklikes is breadth of game element interactions. Multiple-use items are a staple. Reading food, eating weapons, jewelry and armor, throwing gems, drinking corpses ... Very unusual applications of objects, quirky interactions between game elements are the core thing here. Spoiler-based gameplay is a minor item. Kludgey interface is entirely optional!

For me, this is the feature that differentiates it the most from all other roguelikes. Are there other roguelikes that have this as well?

This of course tends towards needing of spoilers but when well designed, it's not so bad. When not designed well, you get NetHack.

Your posting is another proof that for different people very different parts of NetHack are considered good or bad. The roguelike radio team is reluctant to do a NetHack episode because "What can we say that hasn't been said about it already?". But I think that we finally will get an episode where each other will disagree with each other and some serious ass-kicking will occur. I'm betting on the Australian to win the fight ...  ;D
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: Ancient on January 05, 2013, 09:57:53 PM
In my opinion the most important trope to hacklikes is breadth of game element interactions. (...)

For me, this is the feature that differentiates it the most from all other roguelikes. Are there other roguelikes that have this as well?

<shameless self plug> PRIME! </shameless self plug> It has wearable guns (predator plasmacaster), and melee weapons you can fire (combi-stick extends) among other fun things. Many things can be applied. This is the direction the game goes forward the most. Well, maybe except fast evolving GUI which is a new thing.

The key difference is PRIME is explicit about that. When you identify a canister of napalm (explodes when thrown) it is automatically added to throwing menu suggestions. You still can throw any item if you suspect unknown canister might be napalm. Bionic brain implants (approximate ring equivalent) that do something when applied are listed in apply menu once identified. Items get lore which not only contains fluff text but also explanations on part of mechanics relevant to the inspected object. You can examine weapons to get precise damage ranges. Or not so precise if enhancement ("plus") is unknown.

We also went where NetHack has not. Unidentified items can be listed in different category altogether. The most insidious example I am proud of is lightsabers masking as innocuous flashlights. When you try to apply it and there is 50% chance you held it the wrong way and get burnt. Who bothers to identify candles in NetHack? Well, who bothers to identify flashlights in PRIME? You bet that might change a bit with new release.

In future there are plans to conquer hearts of NetHackers. Especially those thinking SLASH'EM is immensely cool.

Your posting is another proof that for different people very different parts of NetHack are considered good or bad. The roguelike radio team is reluctant to do a NetHack episode because "What can we say that hasn't been said about it already?". But I think that we finally will get an episode where each other will disagree with each other and some serious ass-kicking will occur. I'm betting on the Australian to win the fight ...  ;D

Quite likely. I could propose a drinking game as a rematch. Then Poles would win. :D
Title: Re: The Year's Most Popular - By Category
Post by: hudsonK on January 27, 2013, 05:23:02 AM
  Here is a play through:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=782O8LFoF9w

I enjoyed this video a lot!!! Thanks Jo!